110 replies to this topic

[Nightmare1]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 May 2015 - 08:34 AM, said:

PGI

IGP

Not the same...?


Unless they wanna try to flood the vote last minute like an E Bay auction.

That's always possible although it doens't make a lot of sense. Flooding in an action is supposed to get you an item. When voting, it doesn't matter that much since it's more of a cumulative effect rather than a highest bidder effect.

[Dagorlad13]

Selling something as limited and "never to return" just to make compulsive collectors open their wallets and then turning around and trying to sell it again, is just BS. If PGI wants to sell the Phoenix collections again, then they should at least call it "Phoenix Returns" or something and change the camo and forum icons, so the people who bought the "limited" edition Phoenix mechs the first time can at least have some pride and not just feel like they were stabbed in the back.

But, I know, recycling and reselling old content that does not take any development dollars is pure profit and PGI is a company after all.

Edited by IronClaws, 21 May 2015 - 12:07 PM.

[Xenon Codex]

While I voted yes in the poll as I could care less about exclusivity, I tend to favor the option of re-releasing it with some minor changes just for something different.

New camo, colors, and badges. Apply the 30% C-bill booster to different variants this time around. They might even get some of the old crowd to bite again.

[Kassatsu]

Xenon Codex, on 21 May 2015 - 12:28 PM, said:

New camo, colors, and badges. Apply the 30% C-bill booster to different variants this time around. They might even get some of the old crowd to bite again.

That's what they should do right there. Add a suffix to the forum titles like "Risen" or something, call it the "Phoenix Revived" pack, change the colors and badges a bit and you're done. Maybe remove a few of the handlebars/rollcages.

Even better if there's an "upgrade" pack for current owners, they can upgrade to the equivalent tier of the new package for MUCH less than buying the entire package (and mechs they already own) all over again, but only get pre-order bonuses and the single (P) variant instead of the (P) variant and two others.

Edited by Kassatsu, 21 May 2015 - 12:39 PM.

[Alan Davion]

If they do change the colors or some other thing, then they need to release the (P) variant scheme and colors to the in-game store for c-bills or MC.

They already released the hot rod scheme, now it's time to release the Phoenix colors.

[Kassatsu]

Alan Davion, on 21 May 2015 - 12:44 PM, said:

If they do change the colors or some other thing, then they need to release the (P) variant scheme and colors to the in-game store for c-bills or MC.

They already released the hot rod scheme, now it's time to release the Phoenix colors.

Not sure if there's anything close enough to phoenix black, but camo black is probably pretty good. Hot rod red is nearly identical to phoenix red and I highly doubt you'll be able to tell the difference outside of a screenshot at 200%+ zoom. The phoenix gray is the only one I'm not sure of, I haven't ever looked at other grays to see if anything is close enough but I don't think there is.

[1453 R]

Unfortunately much of the issue is that the "Vote NO" crowd are being quite venomous to anyone in the "Vote YES" crowd, as the NO guys are the ones who stand to lose something in this deal. While I really don't care if anyone else obtains a Project Phoenix pack and did in fact "Vote YES", apparently there's quite a lot of Phoenix holders out there who actually hate their Phoenix 'Mechs and bought the pack solely because it was a limited edition thing. Losing that LE luster would apparently defeat the purpose of having bought twelve/eighteen 'Mechs they've presumably been playing for a good few years now.

Frankly, given some of the tremendously hostile things I've seen come out of NO-voters' mouths, I'm surprised none of them fought to ensure that the Phoenix 'Mechs never became available for MC/C-bills, either. I had no idea until now that the Phoenix package holders were collectively such a bunch of jerkbags. I'm almost ashamed of myself at this point.

Oh well. I threw my "YES" vote out there, not much else I can really do. I do understand the frustration behind this and honestly think it was kinna douchey of Piranha to release a 'goal' for Phoenix holders which was going to piss them off more than reward them for their support of the game. Obviously an 'Original Phoenix' badge or what-have-you would be in order for the original purchasers, but I still don't see why the Phoenix pack is anything but a 'Mech pack to folks.

Kinda silly to tell people they can't have 'Mechs because they're too new/were too poor back when these were first available.

[Xetelian]

Kassatsu, on 21 May 2015 - 12:47 PM, said:

Not sure if there's anything close enough to phoenix black, but camo black is probably pretty good. Hot rod red is nearly identical to phoenix red and I highly doubt you'll be able to tell the difference outside of a screenshot at 200%+ zoom. The phoenix gray is the only one I'm not sure of, I haven't ever looked at other grays to see if anything is close enough but I don't think there is.

I bought the pack for the colors

Only the colors.


Yes, please sell it again, I'll even upgrade to a high tier.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Ultimately, the only thing that should never be on the table for re-issue is the Founder's pack.

I voted Yes for the Phoenix pack, for a couple of reasons.

1 - I sort of want to get the Reinforcement pack. I really like the Wolverines I got via C-bills, and would enjoy having a c-bill boosted variant, and it'd let me have a go with the Griffins, which I haven't yet touched.

2 - I don't feel any particular exclusivity was inherent to the nature of the Phoenix pack, certainly not in the same was as the Founder pack.

3 - This is an opportunity for PGI to make more money, which is a good thing since it lets MWO thrive ever longer. I say, if people want to give PGI money for old content, then let them.

4 - Why not? I mean, seriously, why not? Vanity? Sure, I can see that, but they're still paying for the privilege of running the special geometry and paint pattern, so it's not like everyone will have one.

[Dagorlad13]

Alan Davion, on 21 May 2015 - 12:44 PM, said:

If they do change the colors or some other thing, then they need to release the (P) variant scheme and colors to the in-game store for c-bills or MC.

They already released the hot rod scheme, now it's time to release the Phoenix colors.

No, the (P) variant scheme is what makes the original package "exclusive". Just like if they make a new camo scheme for the re-released package, it should be exclusive to that package. Many people forked over the money for these packages rather than waiting for the mechs to be released for Cbills because they were exclusive.

[Roadkill]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 May 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

Cause I gave my word I will accept they can make the changes.

To content.

The terms of a sale are not content. What you purchase is content, but the terms of the sale are not.

[Alan Davion]

IronClaws, on 21 May 2015 - 03:18 PM, said:

No, the (P) variant scheme is what makes the original package "exclusive". Just like if they make a new camo scheme for the re-released package, it should be exclusive to that package. Many people forked over the money for these packages rather than waiting for the mechs to be released for Cbills because they were exclusive.

And the Phoenix owners have had 2-someodd years to enjoy their oh-so-vaunted exclusivity. By playing the mechs the first year and then sticking them in the hangar. If the Phoenix owners played with their oh-so-shiny and precious toys more, maybe things would be different.

But as it is I have seen hardly any (P) mechs in the time I've been playing.

It's time to let new players, and players who missed out the first time in on the fun.

Roadkill, on 21 May 2015 - 03:23 PM, said:

To content.

The terms of a sale are not content. What you purchase is content, but the terms of the sale are not.

Except the terms of the sale weren't set by PGI, or did you forget that little fact?

[Roadkill]

stjobe, on 21 May 2015 - 09:31 AM, said:

There's basically three things that are unique and not available any more in the Phoenix pack:
1. The special geometry of the (P) 'mechs
2. The Loyalty Point medallions
3. The forum and in-game badges.

Also:
4. The (P) variants provide +10% Loyalty Points.

Because the (P) variants are really really good in CW. [/sarcasm]

Alan Davion, on 21 May 2015 - 03:28 PM, said:

Except the terms of the sale weren't set by PGI, or did you forget that little fact?

If you want to go that route, then PGI acquired MWO from IGP and in doing so also acquired its legal debt.

Selling an asset does not void contracts attached to that asset. You get the "bad" with the "good".

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Zeusus, on 21 May 2015 - 07:58 AM, said:

Phoenix was advertised as limited and never to return. Wave 1 was not.

That's why.

Lol advertising

https://youtu.be/ea3spOtjLmI

:25 in

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 21 May 2015 - 03:39 PM.

[1453 R]

While I'm profoundly disappointed by the small-heartedness of my fellow Phoenix holders, I suppose that's pretty much that. Even if the YES folks manage to pull out three hundred extra votes before the poll ends, enough Phoenix holders have ixnayed the notion that it would be quite churlish of Piranha indeed to ignore the poll and re-open Phoenix.

I doubt they'll ask again. Nothing worse than somebody who keeps asking for something after the something's controller says no; if Piranha tried again even I'd probably say no, simply because it's pretty clear what the answer is.

That really bites. This pretty much flat kills any possible chance of getting any new Phoenix 'Mechs. Damnit, it almost sounded like Russ was considering going to bat for some of the old Macross Reseens. I woulda gleefully gutted a squirrel or five for some Phoenix Hawks, and I'm a Clan pilot these days.

Feh. I really hope all you "exclusive means exclusive means exclusive" folks are enjoying those Phoenix 'Mechs you never actually pilot anymore. They're pretty much all we're getting now. Frag.

At this point I'm praying to the robot heavens that Piranha never offers an exclusive anything again. It is completely and utterly not worth it just for some random e-peen points.

[Khobai]

Quote

Unless it was a stupid business decision. Which it was. If it was a popular Package deal, removing a hot product from sales is just dumb business.

I think everyone agrees that promising never to sell the phoenix packs again was dumb.

But just because they made a dumb decision doesnt mean they should be able to avoid the consequences.

Some people bought the phoenix packs because they were limited edition... so unless PGI is prepared to offer a refund to phoenix pack owners on grounds of breach of contract... they shouldnt sell phoenix packs again.

Quote

That really bites. This pretty much flat kills any possible chance of getting any new Phoenix 'Mechs

I dont see why. PGI can still sell a phoenix pack 2 with 4 new phoenix mechs and they can even sell the non-phoenix variants of the mechs from phoenix pack 1. As long as the original 4 phoenix mechs arnt sold.

Phoenix Pack 2 = $80 for 4 new phoenix mechs and 12 new non-phoenix variants
Phoenix Pack 2 Reinforcements = +$60 for the 4 non-phoenix versions of the original phoenix mechs and the 12 other non-phoenix variants

Edited by Khobai, 21 May 2015 - 04:10 PM.

[Mystere]

1453 R, on 21 May 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:

Unfortunately much of the issue is that the "Vote NO" crowd are being quite venomous to anyone in the "Vote YES" crowd

Pardon me, but, the venom is also coming from the other side.

[1453 R]

Khobai, on 21 May 2015 - 03:52 PM, said:

I dont see why

PGI can still sell a phoenix pack 2 with 4 new phoenix mechs and they can even include the non-phoenix variants of the mechs from phoenix pack 1. As long as the original 4 phoenix mechs arnt sold.

We've got close to 1200 people in the Phoenix poll all demanding that Piranha never sell Phoenix 'Mechs again. I can't really see how Piranha's going to be able to pop a new Phoenix pack, even with entirely new 'Mechs, without those 1200 people and their assorted flunkies raising the unholiest ruckus this side of the Seventh Ring over them "not only breaking their promise, but ignoring BOTH polls, too!"

Why should Russ risk an enormous legal brouhaha with Harmony Gold over Macross Reseens when his own player base will burn him at the stake even if he wins it for 'breaking his word'?

Mystere, on 21 May 2015 - 04:00 PM, said:

Pardon me, but, the venom is also coming from the other side.

Very true. I'll even admit I haven't really been helping. I'm mostly, as I stated, very disappointed in how cold the other Phoenix holders are being ("You are FLAT NOT ALLOWED to buy any more 'Mechs from Piranha, ever! NO!"), and also very bitter about how badly this sabotages Piranha being able to sell anything but random mostly-bad Resistance packs on the Sphere side.

I mean hell, Sphere players are shooting themselves most mightily in the foot on this one. It's stupid as well as petty and coldhearted, and I just cannot abide stupid.

Edited by 1453 R, 21 May 2015 - 04:12 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

We've got close to 1200 people in the Phoenix poll all demanding that Piranha never sell Phoenix 'Mechs again. I can't really see how Piranha's going to be able to pop a new Phoenix pack, even with entirely new 'Mechs, without those 1200 people and their assorted flunkies raising the unholiest ruckus this side of the Seventh Ring over them "not only breaking their promise, but ignoring BOTH polls, too!"

What are you even talking about.

Selling a phoenix pack #2 wouldnt break any promises.

[Roadkill]

1453 R, on 21 May 2015 - 04:10 PM, said:

We've got close to 1200 people in the Phoenix poll all demanding that Piranha never sell Phoenix 'Mechs again.

Which refers specifically to the (P) variants, and only to the (P) variants.

As long as they don't try to sell those 6 Mechs again, we're fine.

Creating additional, new (P) variants is fine. Selling the non-(P) variants is fine. (They're already doing that for both c-bills and MC.)

In fact, if they gave me a 50% refund on my Phoenix purchase price, I'd then be fine with them selling the packs again. I get a deal for them changing the terms of the sale. I'd probably even be fine if that 50% refund came in the form of MC.

I understand that a lot of the Yes-men don't understand that the Phoenix pack's exclusivity was part of its value, but for a lot of people it was. An offer of compensation with tangible value, not some silly cockpit ornament that no one cares about, might have gone a long way toward changing the outcome of the vote.