133 replies to this topic

[JaxRiot]

Bulletsponge0, on 21 May 2015 - 12:21 PM, said:

pop a UAV and reap the profits....

All UAV does is show where the ECM blanketed targets are. It doesnt stop ECM target lock hindrances, can be destroyed by 10 points of damage or 45 seconds (whichever comes first) plus costs 40,000 c-bills per use.

Not a very fair trade off to spend 40,000 c-bills just to try and catch a glimpse of the enemy ecm (which acts passively for free) location imo.

Edited by JaxRiot, 21 May 2015 - 12:33 PM.

[TWIAFU]

Bush Hopper, on 21 May 2015 - 08:20 AM, said:

I have had matches now where most of the time my radar didn't show anything or only now and then when a blip appears when an ecm mech gets too close to a BAP.

Light scout mechs (which don't have ECM) get attacked before they see the enemy which also defies the role of a scout mech.

Also a whole weapon system is basically brought down (I add that despite I dislike how LRMs are implemented in this game but anyway).

Anyway the amount of ECM is getting ridiciulous - and the next wave of ECM mechs isn't even released yet.

The bubble should shield a small aread and not nearly a whole team clustering loosely around an ECM mech...not that this is necessary anymore considering the amount of ECM mechs fielded.

OR, you could remind that ridiculous amount of ECM HOW TO CHANGE FRACKING MODES!

Teach those pugtards about the J key with how and when to use that key. While your at it, remind those same people how and the R key is used for.

[Dino Might]

Knyx, on 21 May 2015 - 12:07 PM, said:

lmao thread with hidden agenda to nerf Hellbringer Spotted.
Just give every clan mech -50% to every possible negative quirk and be done with it.

Welcome to yet another thread where you call for the wah-mbulance

[Bulletsponge0]

JaxRiot, on 21 May 2015 - 12:32 PM, said:

All UAV does is show where the ECM blanketed targets are. It doesnt stop ECM target lock hindrances, can be destroyed by 10 points of damage or 45 seconds (whichever comes first) plus costs 40,000 c-bills per use.

Not a very fair trade off to spend 40,000 c-bills just to try and catch a glimpse of the enemy ecm (which acts passively for free) location imo.

uavs allow you to get locks on ecm covered mechs

[Chagatay]

Bulletsponge0, on 21 May 2015 - 01:10 PM, said:

uavs allow you to get locks on ecm covered mechs

They do, however it doesn't bypass the lock time penalties of ECM. Probably the best counter atm is multiple NARCs on everything. They did raise the counter range of BAP/cAP at one point but the forumites went all crazy and it was dialed back.

TWIAFU, on 21 May 2015 - 12:50 PM, said:

OR, you could remind that ridiculous amount of ECM HOW TO CHANGE FRACKING MODES!

Teach those pugtards about the J key with how and when to use that key. While your at it, remind those same people how and the R key is used for.

The range it counters is very, very short. The countering person finds that it fails (they have multiple ECM) and soon finds himself a fiery wreck as he gave up his Jesus box and is now turned into a pincushion.

Edited by Chagatay, 21 May 2015 - 01:57 PM.

[Sable]

Several good ideas in this thread about how to adjust ECM. I think they should also fix some of the issues, like the twice as much lock on time thing being borked so it's more like 3X the lock on time for mechs under ECM. LRMs would be more interesting if they followed a tag laser from the mech firing. So you could fire LRMs from your mech and then guide them to their target even without a lock. OR even fire LRMs off to the side and then use tag to readjust their course.

I'm thinking of the guided shoulder fire missile launcher from half life where you HAD to make it's course go crazy in order for the missile to hit or the flying guys would shoot it down before it hit.

[Dirkdaring]

ECM in this game doesn't even work like it's supposed to in MW. It was never meant to be an electronic umbrella cloaking device. Someone may have mentioned this already, I didn't read all these replies.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/ECM_Suite

Game Rules

In Tournament-level gameplay, the use of an ECM suite is to nullify the effects of other electronics, such as missile beacons, active probes, and fire control systems. It can also cut a unit off from aC3 Network.

In Tactical Operations, additional uses for an ECM suite are shown as optional rules, including defeating other ECM and generating ghost targets.

Edited by Dirkdaring, 21 May 2015 - 03:52 PM.

[Revis Volek]

Dirkdaring, on 21 May 2015 - 03:51 PM, said:

ECM in this game doesn't even work like it's supposed to in MW. It was never meant to be an electronic umbrella cloaking device. Someone may have mentioned this already, I didn't read all these replies.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/ECM_Suite

Game Rules

In Tournament-level gameplay, the use of an ECM suite is to nullify the effects of other electronics, such as missile beacons, active probes, and fire control systems. It can also cut a unit off from aC3 Network.

In Tactical Operations, additional uses for an ECM suite are shown as optional rules, including defeating other ECM and generating ghost targets.

We dont even have a C3 network in game.....so ECM had very little to do. They gave it a job as a magic cloaking device that can enrage LRM users in a matter or seconds.

Would love it to generate ghost targets....be great for the lone light running around for distraction purposes. Also ECM should COUNTER things like NARC, BAP and Artemis like you stated.....but in this game its the opposite.

[Quaamik]

The counter to ECM built into the game is BAP, TAG, UAVs and PPCs (including ERs).

However:

BAP is not effective against ECM as implemented. ECM blocks detection. Wile its coverage area is small, the block actually covers they entire map. No matter where you can't see the mech on radar, and cant target it if you see it unless within range forte BAP to work. And that range is too short when its you against the enemy team.

TAG only works if you, or a teammate, can hold on target. It doesn't help find the enemy and holding that target while taking fire is suicide. Add to that the fact it takes up an energy hard point and only dedicated missile mechs or scouts want it.

UAVs work, as long as they stay up. Running into any type of coordination means the won't stay up long enough to be useful. And since they cost money, and if you lose you may not make enough to make it worthwhile, people are loth to employ them.

PPCs help, but the slow projectile speed, high heat and long recharge time conspire to make them a marginal weapon. Add the hit registry issues of the CERPPC and they are pretty sucky (and I like them).

The fix would be to tweak all these systems, and ECM.

- Give BAP a slightly bigger bubble, and make it act like a counter ECM.
- Take TAG off of the energy hard points and list it as equipment.
- Fix the hit registry issues with the CERPPC to make it effective (so people would use it) and increase the projectile speed. Increase the length of time that ECM is knocked out slightly.
- Boost th altitude f UAVs, making them harder to get a bead on / shoot down. Ideally, most mechs within the coverage area should not be able to hit it unless they were significantly elevated from the launching mech.
- Lastly, start quirking ECM by mech. Reduce coverage on some mechs so they only cover themselves. Make quirks on others where if ECM is installed, cooling is reduced. Tailor the ECM to the role that chassis is envisioned for. ie: A light scout would only cover itself, a light support mech could cover a good area, an ECM Assault or heavy should sacrifice sustained fire for the ability to keep a close grouped lance under cover.
Also increase the range of ECM counter mode. 1.5x or 2x the cover mode sounds about right. That would get more people to switch modes.

Edited by Quaamik, 21 May 2015 - 04:56 PM.

[Alex Morgaine]

With lack of seeing any role warfare, something like this might be the closest way to balance we can get. Still loathe ecm as it currently is.

[bad arcade kitty]

Bush Hopper, on 21 May 2015 - 08:20 AM, said:

I have had matches now where most of the time my radar didn't show anything or only now and then when a blip appears when an ecm mech gets too close to a BAP.

Light scout mechs (which don't have ECM) get attacked before they see the enemy which also defies the role of a scout mech.

Also a whole weapon system is basically brought down (I add that despite I dislike how LRMs are implemented in this game but anyway).

Anyway the amount of ECM is getting ridiciulous - and the next wave of ECM mechs isn't even released yet.

The bubble should shield a small aread and not nearly a whole team clustering loosely around an ECM mech...not that this is necessary anymore considering the amount of ECM mechs fielded.

you can use your eyes instead of relying on the huge red triangle

[Roadkill]

Quaamik, on 21 May 2015 - 04:48 PM, said:

The counter to ECM built into the game is BAP, TAG, UAVs and PPCs (including ERs).

And that is precisely the problem.

ECM is not a system that needs to be countered. ECM is a counter to other systems. PGI completely screwed it up by making it orders of magnitude more powerful than it should be.

The correct way to fix the problem is to throw out the existing system and implement it the way it should have been implemented from the beginning.

ECM is a counter to Artemis and Narc. That's it. Nothing more. No stealth armor, no delaying lock-ons by LRMs/Streaks. Just a counter to Artemis and Narc. (And C3, but we don't have that system so it doesn't need to be countered.)

LRMs would then need to be rebalanced, but that's as easy as removing their ability to use indirect fire unless supported by TAG or Narc. Might also need to make Narc and Artemis better in order to encourage their use, which would in turn make ECM more necessary in the new world.

Poof. Done. Easy peasy.

[Chuck Jager]

To be honest I have a ton more animosity towards teammates safely adding damage to their score and epeen while others are taking damage at the front of the line. Somewhere there may be a design for certain mechs to do push the line, at this time I see this being done by specific pilots including lrms and traditional fire support. It is everybody's job to not only do damage, but to also share the damage at the time the game is being decided.

The mixing of skill levels can force newer players to feel more comfortable with lrms and they can do great in a winning match. The need for a faster lock with artemis and tag and then keeping the lock with target retention makes being an effective contributor counter intuitive and too expensive for newer players. I would be happy to reducing the affect for ECM only if the original lock has to be gotten by the individual firing the lrms (lore be damned). The speed/duration could be affected by others already providing targeting data as well as other factors.

Countering human nature and the path of least resistance is probably why ECM is so prevalent at this time (my opinion)

Edited by Chuck YeaGurr, 22 May 2015 - 12:28 AM.

[Flutterguy]

Roadkill, on 21 May 2015 - 08:58 PM, said:

And that is precisely the problem.

ECM is not a system that needs to be countered. ECM is a counter to other systems. PGI completely screwed it up by making it orders of magnitude more powerful than it should be.

The correct way to fix the problem is to throw out the existing system and implement it the way it should have been implemented from the beginning.

ECM is a counter to Artemis and Narc. That's it. Nothing more. No stealth armor, no delaying lock-ons by LRMs/Streaks. Just a counter to Artemis and Narc. (And C3, but we don't have that system so it doesn't need to be countered.)

LRMs would then need to be rebalanced, but that's as easy as removing their ability to use indirect fire unless supported by TAG or Narc. Might also need to make Narc and Artemis better in order to encourage their use, which would in turn make ECM more necessary in the new world.

Poof. Done. Easy peasy.

I'll throw in one more thing. I'd change BAP so that it would have a detection radius through walls and terrain and then ECM would counter BAP.

[Mystere]

Roadkill, on 21 May 2015 - 08:58 PM, said:

And that is precisely the problem.

ECM is not a system that needs to be countered. ECM is a counter to other systems. PGI completely screwed it up by making it orders of magnitude more powerful than it should be.

The correct way to fix the problem is to throw out the existing system and implement it the way it should have been implemented from the beginning.

ECM is a counter to Artemis and Narc. That's it. Nothing more. No stealth armor, no delaying lock-ons by LRMs/Streaks. Just a counter to Artemis and Narc. (And C3, but we don't have that system so it doesn't need to be countered.)

LRMs would then need to be rebalanced, but that's as easy as removing their ability to use indirect fire unless supported by TAG or Narc. Might also need to make Narc and Artemis better in order to encourage their use, which would in turn make ECM more necessary in the new world.

Poof. Done. Easy peasy.

And undo several months' worth of work, plus do several months' worth of more? What small game developer with limited time, money, and other resources would do that just because? "Easy peasy" it most certainly is not. It never is.

People should let it go. Just pay the "required" tonnage, slot and c-bill taxes if you insist on seeing that red dorito.

As I keep on saying, demanding 1-on-1 symmetric balance in an IP that is inherently asymmetric is a fool's errand.

Edited by Mystere, 21 May 2015 - 11:37 PM.

[STEF_]

Bush Hopper, on 21 May 2015 - 08:20 AM, said:

I have had matches now where most of the time my radar didn't show anything or only now and then when a blip appears when an ecm mech gets too close to a BAP.

Light scout mechs (which don't have ECM) get attacked before they see the enemy which also defies the role of a scout mech.

Also a whole weapon system is basically brought down (I add that despite I dislike how LRMs are implemented in this game but anyway).

Anyway the amount of ECM is getting ridiciulous - and the next wave of ECM mechs isn't even released yet.

The bubble should shield a small aread and not nearly a whole team clustering loosely around an ECM mech...not that this is necessary anymore considering the amount of ECM mechs fielded.

http://mwomercs.com/...i-like-bt-more/

an old thread

[Cyborne Elemental]

Make ECM personal only, or change how it works by simply adding on time to LRM lockons without giving the unit a magical stealth cloak.

There are so many ways PGI could do ECM better, they choose to do nothing, because nobody can make up their mind about which would work or be best to switch it to.

[Whatzituyah]

Mister D, on 22 May 2015 - 01:35 AM, said:

Make ECM personal only, or change how it works by simply adding on time to LRM lockons without giving the unit a magical stealth cloak.

There are so many ways PGI could do ECM better, they choose to do nothing, because nobody can make up their mind about which would work or be best to switch it to.

Its not that bad is it? Its not like they are not invisible or anything like Harry Potter invisibility cloak.


*Watched the movies up to book 3 and have not read the actual books*

Edited by Whatzituyah, 22 May 2015 - 01:41 AM.

[Brody319]

change the current ECM to regular ECM and have it only hide the mech that uses it.
Then put Angel ECM in, and just have it cost more slots and tonnage.

since its a new item it won't break any stock loadouts and the mechs that want to bring A-ECM will have to pay more to bring such a powerful item.

Edited by Brody319, 22 May 2015 - 02:12 AM.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

I wonder witch idiot first sad that we have angel ecm in this game.