90 replies to this topic

[LordNothing]

as soon as the team starts camping is when the short range brawler people get bored. i usually either protect the flanks of the formation or go out and do some flanking of my own. you just have to hook up with other short rangers and dont let the campers tell you what to do.

[WazOfOz]

but if everyone thought to flank at the same time you would only be opening up a new front, or worse still it degenerates into nascar, communication is key.

[LordNothing]

i would rather do something stupid that be bored playing a game.

[YueFei]

Eider, on 21 May 2015 - 10:04 PM, said:

It is generally true to life, games where they balance such things out usually have a lot of extra to make melee applicable. In such an example you can have bloated hp or shield to counter what range does naturally. This is not the only game to struggle with that, there is a reason why in shooters you see many snipers. Sure a shotgun user hiding in a doorway or under the stairs can do well, in very specific situations.

We shouldn't look to real life for game balancing, though.

Real life isn't fair, and doesn't have to be fair.

In a game, if you put an asset into it, it makes sense to make the asset useful. If you're gonna put melee or short-ranged into a game, it makes sense to balance it properly so that it has the advantage under some scenarios.

Quote

oh and as for real live examples there is a reason knights when out of style when they developed crossbows. Even before then you had bows and extra long spears etc.

Even in ancient warfare, ranged projectiles was the primary fighting method for a long time. Melee was short, sharp, and sporadic, where clashes of hand-to-hand would happen only briefly in between prolonged periods of missile exchanges. There's a reason that battles in those days could last for hours, and human beings sure as hell can't sustain melee combat for more than a few minutes at a time.

However, like I said, real life isn't supposed to be balanced or fair, but ideally a game should make at least most of its assets viable.

[Haji1096]

Flanking in range of support, pushing, fighting retreat all require coordination and trust....most of the time that doesn't exist in the solo queue. Sometimes you'll get unicorn players who have map awareness and will join you.

The game has such a high learning curve, that most people are trying to get their mech to do what they want it to do, which doesn't leave a whole lot of cognitive ability to understand the map, understand the positioning of enemies and allies....basically be the Wayne Gretzky of MWO.

From a micro positioning standpoint, every mech has an engagement type that is favorable depending on the precise location of your hard points, where you can absorb fire. Figuring just that out takes a long time. Then you have to figure out how the maps play, how your teamates are likely to play then integrate yourself into it.

Its much easier to do in group queue with players you have been dropping with for a long time. To the point where we do all this without communicating. Sure, we will get our ass handed to us sometimes, but at least we are going down while attempting a unified strategy...which at least gives us a chance to win.

TL DR: MWO has a high learning curve, Solo Queue reinforces bad habits (relative to group queue/competitive)

Edited by Haji1096, 22 May 2015 - 05:54 AM.

[Pjwned]

A lot of it is crappy map design, but you can still get some flanking going if you have the right mech and the right strategy.

For example, I was just playing a match on Crimson Strait earlier in my CN9-AH brawler and the match turned into a slugfest around the tunnel entrance with me on the tunnel side, and I couldn't really do much about it without getting blasted apart and doing very little damage. I wandered around for a while not shooting anything at all because my mech is so short range and the enemy wasn't moving much, so after about 5 minutes or so into the match I wandered off alone to go back the other way and go through the saddle. After making sure I had a clear shot (i.e not getting ambushed) I rushed a lone Thunderbolt on top of the platform and got a nice kill after a few volleys, and then hopped down below to core out a Stormcrow as well as finishing off a King Crab in the tunnel, which earned me over 300 damage and 3 killing blows (2 of which were awarded as solo kills) despite not really being in the action all that much.

That's a pretty good example of flanking in action, though personally I wouldn't (and tend to not) really try such maneuvers without a mech that moves decently fast since it can end really poorly otherwise.

Edited by Pjwned, 22 May 2015 - 06:14 AM.

[Knyx]

The maps were basically designed around synergizing with IS weapons. I'm guessing the OP picked clan mechs, and is feeling at a disadvantage in the peek-a-boo design of the game. Just play IS mechs brother.

[Bilbo]

Knyx, on 22 May 2015 - 06:17 AM, said:

The maps were basically designed around synergizing with IS weapons. I'm guessing the OP picked clan mechs, and is feeling at a disadvantage in the peek-a-boo design of the game. Just play IS mechs brother.

It's not about the weapon systems. It's about the style of play and the boredom that results from it for some people. I build my mechs to brawl. I have no interest in waiting for the end of the match to employ it.

[C E Dwyer]

mogs01gt, on 21 May 2015 - 08:33 PM, said:

Is really killing the game for me. I simply cannot sit there and play hide & seek with the other team. What created this boring play style? I want to flank, I want to get to their backs or sides, I want to move.....I think another month or two long break will be good for me but what is the point? I doubt the game will change... I seem to be only to play for a week before it gets dreadfully boring..

Mogs

Agreed, remember how bad jump sniping/pop tarting was, and how PGI's solution was to cripple jumpjets and make the victor crap at everything, not just jumping..

Well what we have know is poptarting in the horizontal plane

[Spleenslitta]

Here is an alternative hide & poke style of play that doesn't require teammates to perform.
Takes a bit getting used to and in my case about 10% of my matches become disasters.

http://mwomercs.com/...-tactics-guide/

[Elizander]

I manage to flank the enemy team by myself at times, but it requires timing and it won't always work, just like any other tactic.

[MerryIguana]

Cower Warrior Online

[Knyx]

Bilbo, on 22 May 2015 - 06:22 AM, said:

It's not about the weapon systems. It's about the style of play and the boredom that results from it for some people. I build my mechs to brawl. I have no interest in waiting for the end of the match to employ it.

You don't. It comes down to teamwork as well. A lot of reg que maps I see just both teams circling the map clockwise or counter clockwise until the lead of one team makes contact with the rear of the enemy team. If you get a team that employs teamwork, you can easily take a Jager, a Banshee, a Tbolt, etc etc etc etc and Brawl with it to hearts content. Your lower duration lasers and PPFLD ballistics mean you should fire a shot and if the enemy mech is facing you prepare to torso twist left/right between each shot or 2 shots to spread the damage coming at you. Make sure research your mechs and know where to shoot at each mech (where most of it's firepower is usually located).

[Widowmaker1981]

Armour does not regenerate

cover has infinite armour.

If you wish to score highly, you must inflict significantly more damage than you receive.

Mechs are easy to hit by anyone with more than a terrible level of skill.

Do the maths, using cover to poke and damage then retreat into safety before taking return damage will NEVER change, due to the core concepts of the game. Literally the only way to change it would be to give mechs regenerating force fields, allowing them to take fire without taking lasting damage, and that would NOT be Battletech.

[Bilbo]

Knyx, on 22 May 2015 - 06:29 AM, said:

You don't. It comes down to teamwork as well. A lot of reg que maps I see just both teams circling the map clockwise or counter clockwise until the lead of one team makes contact with the rear of the enemy team. If you get a team that employs teamwork, you can easily take a Jager, a Banshee, a Tbolt, etc etc etc etc and Brawl with it to hearts content. Your lower duration lasers and PPFLD ballistics mean you should fire a shot and if the enemy mech is facing you prepare to torso twist left/right between each shot or 2 shots to spread the damage coming at you. Make sure research your mechs and know where to shoot at each mech (where most of it's firepower is usually located).

I am well aware of how to get where I need to go and what to do once I get there.

[Mystere]

LordNothing, on 21 May 2015 - 10:22 PM, said:

i would rather do something stupid that be bored playing a game.

He! He! He!

Much of MWO player base lacks patience. I exploit that fact to the best of my abilities. <maniacal >

Edited by Mystere, 22 May 2015 - 07:56 AM.

[MechaBattler]

On my mechs that aren't heavies or assaults. I don't have much of a choice but to play that game. Especially on my Blackjack. I can't tumble with most other mechs in a stand up fight. Some of the mechs fielded can blow an arm off in one alpha. Or outright destroy my Blackjack.

[mogs01gt]

Knyx, on 22 May 2015 - 06:17 AM, said:

The maps were basically designed around synergizing with IS weapons. I'm guessing the OP picked clan mechs, and is feeling at a disadvantage in the peek-a-boo design of the game. Just play IS mechs brother.

Are you in my house, cause this exactly what I was playing! If Im in my Thor or Crow, I get soo bored waiting for the team to make a move! I have zero issues when I play my IS mechs. All of the ones I play have high mounted weapons, Stalker, CTF, Cicada, Shawk. the only one that doesnt is my cent.

[Lugh]

LordNothing, on 21 May 2015 - 10:22 PM, said:

i would rather do something stupid that be bored playing a game.

I'd rather do things intelligently and not be bored. And I play a lot of versatile builds so I have poke and brawl ability.

I've only been back a short time, and being versatile has me scoring 200-500 damage a game. I am having trouble keeping up with folks as I haven't mastered many clan mechs yet.

[Apnu]

Praetor Knight, on 21 May 2015 - 08:39 PM, said:

It goes back to the fundamentals:

High Heat Capacity
Low Dissipation
Ability to Fire everything into the same spot
Stackable High Damage Weapons

Asymmetrical hard points. Many mechs can put all their guns on one side, and just expose 1/3 of the mech or less to fire.

mogs01gt, on 21 May 2015 - 08:33 PM, said:

Is really killing the game for me. I simply cannot sit there and play hide & seek with the other team. What created this boring play style? I want to flank, I want to get to their backs or sides, I want to move.....I think another month or two long break will be good for me but what is the point? I doubt the game will change... I seem to be only to play for a week before it gets dreadfully boring..

Mogs

I flank all the time, need speed to do it tho. I play against what I think the PUGs are going to do.

Which is, murder ball up, randomly collide with the enemy then immediately start reversing. Once the static firefight is set up, that's the time to go wide around some terrain and flank. Just don't crash into brawling range with the enemy unless you have 2-3 buddies with you, otherwise you'll be alone an the enemy will prime you into slag while they're under cover from the rest of your team.

Its dangerous out there, never mech alone.