125 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

Chuanhao, on 23 May 2015 - 07:07 PM, said:

The two assaults that will probably be up for wave 4 would be Kingfisher, Turkina.

The Turkina is a walking weapons platform. The clan lacks this as most of the current assaults trade firepower for mobility. So its a mech the clans need.

I agree that the Kingfisher would be a good choice and well suited to have the ECM. But very light in weaponry due to standard engine. Plus point is that it wil be at IS Cbil prices.

all in all, I think Turkina would be the better choice. But if the point is "balance", the addition of ECM to counter the lack of pod space on the Fisher is a good trade

The Turkina has the same speed as the Dire Wolf, with less pod space. Since we have the DWF-S, the Turkey's JJs aren't even an advantage anymore. It's a downgrade to the Whale.

With that being said, it will still probably have more firepower than the majority of the mechs in the game, even if it's directly inferior to the Dire Wolf.

Turkina Base Configuration record sheet: http://bte.battletec...te/pdf/5309.pdf

Edited by FupDup, 23 May 2015 - 07:14 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Chuanhao, on 23 May 2015 - 07:07 PM, said:

The two assaults that will probably be up for wave 4 would be Kingfisher, Turkina.

The Turkina is a walking weapons platform. The clan lacks this as most of the current assaults trade firepower for mobility. So its a mech the clans need.

I agree that the Kingfisher would be a good choice and well suited to have the ECM. But very light in weaponry due to standard engine. Plus point is that it wil be at IS Cbil prices.

all in all, I think Turkina would be the better choice. But if the point is "balance", the addition of ECM to counter the lack of pod space on the Fisher is a good trade

You know, the clans have the DWF, which serves the exact same purpose as the turkina. It's gonna be a 95 ton DWF, that moves at similar speed.

The Kingfisher is a good possibility, but the ECM variant is not until at least 3067. Unless I made a mistake.

[bad arcade kitty]

IraqiWalker, on 23 May 2015 - 06:28 PM, said:

Making an Assault hero that is the only variant of it's chassis with ECM can cause problems, and many a cry of "P2W", so I think they might do something like what you suggested.

well, not hero, just a new version, they already made natasha's dire wolf into an ordinary variant afaik

[IraqiWalker]

bad arcade kitty, on 23 May 2015 - 07:16 PM, said:

well, not hero, just a new version, they already made natasha's dire wolf into an ordinary variant afaik

They can still Make Natasha's DWF into a hero DWF, Most heroes usually can be replicated to some degree on their regular brethren, so the uniqueness of the pods isn't gonna be important. Especially not on a clan mech. They might do something different with the CT, but what really matters is the unique paintjob, and the 30% C-Bill bonus.

[Clownwarlord]

Well I agree each side should have ECM in every weight class (light, medium, heavy, and assault). It gives that excuse if it is OP give it to everyone so no one can complain because they have similar ability.

Sadly though what you see is this though in Community Warfare and that is where most of the complaints about mechs is coming. What shows this is the stats from Tukayyid which shows the over use of Stormcrows, Timber Wolf, and Hellbringer (ECM) and when you look at the Inner Sphere the closest to the same number being used was the Thunderbolt which didn't have ECM. So to help explain, you have 3 mechs being used at 50k times for clans and 1 of them is ECM so 1 out of every 3 mechs was an ECM mech, but then you look at Inner Sphere and you had maybe 1 out of every 4 mechs was with ECM.

That issue I just pointed out of 1:3 and 1:4 is probably why PGI is not as quick to give clan another ECM mech weight class. Also doesn't the next clan pack have more ECM coming out? Where as the next IS pack has none?

[Khobai]

Quote

Don't get me wrong, I understand the Daishi has a DPS advantage over the Atlas, However, it still has to go more than twice the armor that the the atlas has to go through for the kill, especially since the Atlas is more mobile than the Daishi. In close range, tiny shifts in movement can throw the Daishi's aim off.

Atlases do not have twice as much armor... Theres no rule that says you have to shoot an Atlas in its arm. You can wait for the Atlas to face you before you shoot him.

Quote

EDIT: A Daishi doing twice the DPS of an Atlas is gonna be shutting down FAST. If it doesn't get the kill before the shutdown, it's dead.

Not really. Daishis rely heavily on ballistics which are low heat. It can easily sustain its DPS. If both mechs are holding down the fire button, the Atlas will overheat long before the Daishi will.

Assuming equal pilot skill, theres no mech in the game thats a match for a Daishi 1v1. People who say an Atlas brawler can beat a Daishi are just deluding themselves.

Quote

You know, the clans have the DWF, which serves the exact same purpose as the turkina. It's gonna be a 95 ton DWF, that moves at similar speed.

Except the Turkina would make the Awesome/King Crab look skinny in comparison. The Turkina is a mech that just shouldnt be in the game because its hitboxes would make it unplayable.

Like you said the Dire Wolf already does the same thing, so the Turkina is simply not needed.

Edited by Khobai, 23 May 2015 - 07:47 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Khobai, on 23 May 2015 - 07:36 PM, said:

Atlases do not have twice as much armor... Theres no rule that says you have to shoot an Atlas in its arm. You can wait for the Atlas to face you before you shoot him.

If the daishi does that, is it not dropping it's DPS significantly?

Khobai, on 23 May 2015 - 07:36 PM, said:

Not really. Daishis rely heavily on ballistics which are low heat. It can easily sustain its DPS. If both mechs are holding down the fire button, the Atlas will overheat long before the Daishi will.

Assuming equal pilot skill, theres no mech in the game thats a match for a Daishi 1v1. People who say an Atlas brawler can beat a Daishi are just deluding themselves.

All I can say is that I've seen it done too many times to discount it.

[Khobai]

Quote

If the daishi does that, is it not dropping it's DPS significantly?

nope because the atlas isnt firing either when its torso twisted away. so the comparative dps isnt lower.

thats assuming the atlas and daishi are both using cooldown weapons... the atlas will have its AC/20 and the daishi will have its gauss/LPL.

if its a UAC5 daishi youre not going to stop firing if the Atlas torso twists away, youre just going to drill through its arm and torso with absurd dps.

either way the Atlas is taking way more damage than its dealing.

Sadly the Atlas is pretty much an obsolete assault mech thats been replaced by the Stalker in virtually every dropdeck. The Stalker is the most survivable assault in the game bar none, because of its small profile, wrap-around side torsos, and high mounted weapons.

I would gladly fight an Atlas over a Stalker any day.

Quote

All I can say is that I've seen it done too many times to discount it.

and there are some terribad pilots out there. again were assuming both pilots are of equal skill level.

Edited by Khobai, 23 May 2015 - 08:16 PM.

[Burktross]

IraqiWalker, on 22 May 2015 - 11:39 AM, said:

True, our heatsinks are actually stronger, (about 2.2 - 2.4 on average)


A turn is 10 seconds in TT, not 60.


Not as much as you think. Omni tech has a lot of restrictions to it. Such as the fact that ALL equipment on the base config are hardlocked, and can not be removed. That includes engines, DHS, JJs ... etc.

In reality, clan mechs are fairly accurate (aside from the "variant" thing).

While our IS mechs are much easier to customize than the clan ones.


True. They should have stronger thrust forwards. Since they give you 30 meters per JJ. The problem is that in TT it doesn't say the exact height the mech goes when it jumps forwards.



Not exactly, it was removed because it was one of the nastiest griefing mechanics in the game to date. As demonstrated by a rather (in)famous youtube video.



I want that in the game as well, but that is based on collision damage, not collision falling.


Thank god they don't. You think people are complaining about cockpit shake from ballistics? Wait until their HUDs go away.
PPCs used to be super powerful, and got nerfed for it. They were doing too much, too well.


It's a good thing that they don't try to replicate TT in every way possible. Some of it would just make the gaming experience bothersome, rather than fun.


Elaborate please.

JJ height is one hexlevel per JJ, thus half the mech's height.

Chuck YeaGurr, on 22 May 2015 - 12:16 PM, said:

You are not playing the same game I am. The "nerf" of 1 pt heat and .25 duration with a 50% increase in range for the med vs clan ermlas is the best deal the clan has going. You could even look at it compared to an IS large laser that is 500% heavier and has an 11% range increase with 2pts more damage at the same heat. Even with the SCR TBR 1.28 (approx 12%) burn times (anything more is a user issue) they still have the best range/damage/heat/exposure output per ton in the game and this output is even higher at the ranges where the game is decided. The low tonnage allows the user to equip more heat sinks that allow quicker dissipation. The increase in burn time they have is so minimal versus the extra speed/durability med - assault clan mechs it is ridiculous. I have noticed burn times make a difference below .8 sec and above 1.25 and the cermlas sits in the sweet spot. You can also mount these puppies along with clan lplas to bypass ghost heat/weight/crit slot restrictions.

I love playing clan mechs, but my patience is wearing thin with the hordes of clan pilots who do not recognize that the sum benefits of cermlas is equivalent to the top 90% of quirks. These also make the medium to poor clan chassis designs so much more playable and easier to level than their equal quality IS counter parts.

If somebody can not understand the above comparison, it goes a long ways towards explaining the hysteria around the cGauss in game performance (3 ton loss in weight for zero heat) versus the loss in pinpoint damage of the cUACs.

Just... Thank you...
So much...

FupDup, on 22 May 2015 - 12:58 PM, said:

That's not setting the bar very high.

That aside, I do expect the Scat to be a decently effective robot.

I eat clammerscum for breakfast in my anti-meta™ vindicator and the cicada is op. >:^(

Edited by Burktross, 23 May 2015 - 08:15 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Burktross, on 23 May 2015 - 08:02 PM, said:

JJ height is one hexlevel per JJ, thus half the mech's height.


Just... Thank you...
So much...

Actually, a hex is about 30 meters, isn't it? So half a hex would be 15 meters.

[Burktross]

IraqiWalker, on 23 May 2015 - 08:15 PM, said:

Actually, a hex is about 30 meters, isn't it? So half a hex would be 15 meters.

I'm talking vertical. 2 hex levels tall equal the height of a mech. And a JJ boosts you one hexlevel.

[IraqiWalker]

Burktross, on 23 May 2015 - 08:17 PM, said:

I'm talking vertical. 2 hex levels tall equal the height of a mech. And a JJ boosts you one hexlevel.

This is the problem I'm having with it though:

Hex dimensions are fixed. However, mechs have different heights, the Commando (8~ish meters tall?) is shorter than the Atlas (about 14) So it's either half the mech's height, or a hex level, can't be both. I remember we did it in hex distance.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 23 May 2015 - 08:26 PM.

[Lugin]

IraqiWalker, on 23 May 2015 - 08:25 PM, said:

This is the problem I'm having with it though:

Hex dimensions are fixed. However, mechs have different heights, the Commando (8~ish meters tall?) is shorter than the Atlas (about 14) So it's either half the mech's height, or a hex level, can't be both. I remember we did it in hex distance.

Mechanically, all mechs are 2 elevation levels tall.

[Strum Wealh]

IraqiWalker, on 23 May 2015 - 08:25 PM, said:

This is the problem I'm having with it though:

Hex dimensions are fixed. However, mechs have different heights, the Commando (8~ish meters tall?) is shorter than the Atlas (about 14) So it's either half the mech's height, or a hex level, can't be both. I remember we did it in hex distance.

One Hex is 30 meters wide.
One Level is 6 meters tall.

The shortest 'Mechs are no shorter than 8 meters tall.
The vast majority of 'Mechs are 10-12 meters tall.
"Exceptionally tall" 'Mechs are 13-14 meters tall.
The tallest 'Mechs are no taller than 14 meters tall.
(See here and here for more height sources & examples.)

Mechanically, the TT rules treat all 'Mechs as having a height of 2 Levels (6 < x < 12).
Thus, a Level 1 obstacle (6 meters tall) cannot completely obscure a 'Mech (all of which are at least 8 meters tall, and most of which are 10-12 meters tall), hence the Partial Cover rules.
Thus, it takes a Level 2 obstacle (12 meters tall) to provide complete cover to a 'Mech.

Jump Jets allow a 'Mech to ascend by one Level (6 meters vertically) and traverse one Hex (30 meters horizontally) per Jump Jet.
So, a Highlander with its three Jump Jets could ascent up to three Levels (18 meters) and traverse up to three Hexes (90 meters) in a single jump, while a Spider with its eight Jump Jets could ascend up to eight levels (48 meters) and traverse up to eight Hexes (240 meters) in a single jump.

[Alistair Winter]

First of all.... what the hell does Turkina even mean? It's the least intimidating mech name I've ever heard. It just sounds like 'turkey' and the actual mech design does nothing to help that fact either. I hope it comes with a "gobble gobble" warhorn.

That being said, the Kingfisher is completely uninteresting to me. As far as I can tell, it's just another variation of the Gargoyle / Executioner duo, doesn't offer anything new except the STD engine. Both visually and game-wise, it strikes me as quite boring.

I'd be really interested to see what Alex Iglesias could do with the Turkina. And maybe it could work as a better sniper than the jumbo-sized DW.

[bad arcade kitty]

Alistair Winter, on 24 May 2015 - 05:13 AM, said:

First of all.... what the hell does Turkina even mean? It's the least intimidating mech name I've ever heard. It just sounds like 'turkey' and the actual mech design does nothing to help that fact either. I hope it comes with a "gobble gobble" warhorn.

iirc sarna writes it was a name of a favorite hawk of some early clan leader and it was named after a wife of genghis khan or something

actually here it is http://www.sarna.net...gend_of_Turkina
not genghis khan, just some khan (?)

also https://groups.googl...cha/gJNXK3aaY2g

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 24 May 2015 - 05:53 AM.

[Strum Wealh]

Alistair Winter, on 24 May 2015 - 05:13 AM, said:

First of all.... what the hell does Turkina even mean? It's the least intimidating mech name I've ever heard. It just sounds like 'turkey' and the actual mech design does nothing to help that fact either. I hope it comes with a &quot;gobble gobble&quot; warhorn.

That being said, the Kingfisher is completely uninteresting to me. As far as I can tell, it's just another variation of the Gargoyle / Executioner duo, doesn't offer anything new except the STD engine. Both visually and game-wise, it strikes me as quite boring.

I'd be really interested to see what Alex Iglesias could do with the Turkina. And maybe it could work as a better sniper than the jumbo-sized DW.

The original 'Turkina' was a Jade Falcon that belonged to the first Khan of Clan Jade Falcon, Elizabeth Hazen.

According to BattleTech, Hazen named her bird "after the particularly powerful wife of one of the ancient Mongol Khans on Terra".

In reality, "Turkina" seems to be a not-uncommon surname used predominantly among Russians.

[bad arcade kitty]

Strum Wealh, on 24 May 2015 - 06:02 AM, said:

In reality, "Turkina" seems to be a not-uncommon surname used predominantly among Russians.

yeah, moengke khan, mentioned by the second link which i provided, didn't have a wife with that name and his successor wasn't a woman too, it was the famous kublai khan

Samuel Taylor Coleridge said:

In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
A stately pleasure-dome decree :
Where Alph, the sacred river, ran
Through caverns measureless to man
Down to a sunless sea.

as for the russian surname it's a female form of the surname turkin which is probably derived from turk/turkey (the state, not the bird)

p.s. wtf with this ******** font, i cannot set the default

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 24 May 2015 - 06:33 AM.

[Alienized]

lol.
comparing a atlas ddc with a DWF ecm variant...
not that the atlas is in a good state currently.

you really want the atlas buffed up?
you really want that?
all it can do is brawl and then it dies against all that clan firepower rather easily now.

so..... you can complain about having no effective ECM assault (because 100tons is ALOT of tonnage needed in a CW dropdeck) or complain when the DDC gets pumped up.

[bad arcade kitty]

also reading that old newsgroup about a mech named albatross (:

with my

i shot the