97 replies to this topic

[Jazzbandit1313]

Hopped in a CW pug for the first time in months, thought it'd be nice to play some new maps and see how the clans have SUFFERED from their nerfs.

The good news, that new map with the blue sun looks great.

The bad news, laser vomit is still too good. In that match i saw all but ONE clan mech that had something else besides lasers, which was a triple gauss Diashi that proceeded to instakill my ravel 3l. Convergence is the real issue, but that's a whole nother can of worms.

I say more nerfs. Let the clammers cry.

Edited by Jazzbandit1313, 22 May 2015 - 11:14 AM.

[Sarlic]

What is C.W.? Does anyone have heard it before?

I heard someone pushed the blue button over there and they never came back.

True story!

Edited by Sarlic, 22 May 2015 - 11:18 AM.

[Jazzbandit1313]

Sarlic, on 22 May 2015 - 11:15 AM, said:

What is C.W.? Does anyone have heard it before?

I wonder if i see someone in that ghost town que.

Took me 34 minutes to drop

[Lugh]

Wahaaa it killed me. Make it stop.

[Mosadoff]

IS isnt any better.
Overquirked 1500m ERLL TDRs STKs everywhere.

[Moldur]

Jazzbandit1313, on 22 May 2015 - 11:12 AM, said:

Hopped in a CW pug for the first time in months, thought it'd be nice to play some new maps and see how the clans have SUFFERED from their nerfs.

The good news, that new map with the blue sun looks great.

The bad news, laser vomit is still too good. In that match i saw all but ONE clan mech that had something else besides lasers, which was a triple gauss Diashi that proceeded to instakill my ravel 3l. Convergence is the real issue, but that's a whole nother can of worms.

I say more nerfs. Let the clammers cry.

Implying clans are worse offenders than IS.

[LastKhan]

Gets killed by a gauss dire, whines about laser vomm.. gg toaster. 10 /10 would kek again.

Edited by LastKhan, 22 May 2015 - 11:25 AM.

[Raso]

I survived the AC40 meta, the point-point sniper meta, the pop-tart sniper meta and the splat cat meta. I have very little issue with the laser vomit meta compared to most past metas.

If anything I'd love to see more of a reason to pack an extra AC or SRMs here and there. Nothing comes to mind, though, that wouldn't result in mechs boating only SRMs and ACs, though.

[Jazzbandit1313]

All I want to see is more variety. I run almost exclusively brawlers that use ballistic and missile mainly. Yes i have a few ERLL mechs like the raven 3l, but at least i have some variety.

[STEF_]

I want clan ballistic as good as IS ones.

period

[Sjorpha]

Pure laser vomit decks are very vulnerable on the new map.

Take brawler IS builds, push into the clans so they can't poke and cool off behind cover. Watch them overheat (or be forced to shoot sparingly if they are good) and just kill them with srms, pulse lasers and ballistics. Easy peasy.

Be aware that good clan teams will probably not run pure laser vom on the new map, they have much better options in mixed gauss + lasers.

[LastKhan]

There would be variety if PGI would fix clan AC's.

[CocoaJin]

Lasers are a smart choice for a versatile, functional and dependable weapon system. Lasers should be the standard, go to weapon system. There is no reason to nerf them so much that they become undesirable...it'll only use the meta and therefor the most prominent builds to ballistics and missiles...which be just wrong.

It's impossible to balance to parity, the player base will find whatever system has the smallest advantage and then exploit it as the predominant build. Lots of lasers in MechWarrior looks right, ballistics and missiles will find their place on the battlefield regardless...I'd say the current values are in the vicinity of right.

[FupDup]

Laser vomit works because it can put up a fight at any range. It usually isn't optimal at any one particular bracket, but it can perform each bracket decently. In other words, it's a jack of all trades type of loadout. It can respond to changing conditions better than a niche-specialist can.

For example, a short range specialist has high effectiveness in short range, but zero effectiveness at long range. Long range specialists are highly effective at long range, but often become weaker in short range. Laser vomit has moderate effectiveness at every range. You get to be really good at X and really bad at Y, or you get to be decent at both X and Y.

Laser vomit is versatile. Laser vomit is always effective, never not effective.


There are also other factors in here, such as upfront tonnage opportunity costs. Lasers are more tonnage-efficient than any other weapon family. They require vastly lower sacrifices than ballistics and some missiles, which makes them more accessible to a wider variety of mechs (many mechs run out of tonnage real fast).


There are also nerfs to non-laser systems that have contributed. Specifically, Autocannon and PPC velocity nerfs have distinguished lasers as being much more accurate at long ranges than ACs. An honorable mention is the Gauss Rifle, which is a very excellent weapon mainly because of having so damn much velocity. People say "but low velocity isn't an issue, just lead/aim better you nub," but the PPC velocity nerfs have proven this argument to be wrong by going from dominant to mediocre with just a velocity nerf. Lasers, being hitscan, are very easy to hit with at long ranges, even if just for partial damage.


The Mad Cat and Ryoken have exasperated the situation somewhat with their large engines. These two mechs have forced IS mechs to either use a STD engine to survive their laser alphas, or use a very large XL engine to not lose the mobility contest. In both cases, those engines eat up a lot of tonnage. Lasers, conveniently, require relatively little tonnage, which makes them the optimal choice for large-engine builds.


Clan lasers in general have also contributed by just being so damn amazing.

Edited by FupDup, 22 May 2015 - 11:53 AM.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 22 May 2015 - 11:46 AM, said:

Laser vomit works because it can put up a fight at any range. It usually isn't optimal at any one particular bracket, but it can perform each bracket decently. In other words, it's a jack of all trades type of loadout. It can respond to changing conditions better than a niche-specialist can.

For example, a short range specialist has high effectiveness in short range, but zero effectiveness at long range. Long range specialists are highly effective at long range, but often become weaker in short range. Laser vomit has moderate effectiveness at every range. You get to be really good at X and really bad at Y, or you get to be decent at both X and Y.


There are also other factors in here, such as upfront tonnage opportunity costs. Lasers are more tonnage-efficient than any other weapon family. They require vastly lower sacrifices than ballistics and some missiles, which makes them more accessible to a wider variety of mechs (many mechs run out of tonnage real fast).


There are also nerfs to non-laser systems that have contributed. Specifically, Autocannon and PPC velocity nerfs have distinguished lasers as being much more accurate at long ranges than ACs. An honorable mention is the Gauss Rifle, which is a very excellent weapon mainly because of having so damn much velocity. People say "but low velocity isn't an issue, just lead/aim better you nub," but the PPC velocity nerfs have proven this argument to be wrong by going from dominant to mediocre with just a velocity nerf. Lasers, being hitscan, are very easy to hit with at long ranges, even if just for partial damage.


The Mad Cat and Ryoken have exasperated the situation somewhat with their large engines. These two mechs have forced IS mechs to either use a STD engine to survive their laser alphas, or use a very large XL engine to not lose the mobility contest. In both cases, those engines eat up a lot of tonnage. Lasers, conveniently, require relatively little tonnage, which makes them the optimal choice for large-engine builds.


Clan lasers in general have also contributed by just being so damn amazing.

I thought you'd sum it up with the rainbow vomit pic.

I'll leave you to that meme.

Unfortunately Clan lasers can't save the Mist Lynx.

[XX Sulla XX]

Well CW

FupDup, on 22 May 2015 - 11:46 AM, said:

Laser vomit works because it can put up a fight at any range. It usually isn't optimal at any one particular bracket, but it can perform each bracket decently. In other words, it's a jack of all trades type of loadout. It can respond to changing conditions better than a niche-specialist can.

For example, a short range specialist has high effectiveness in short range, but zero effectiveness at long range. Long range specialists are highly effective at long range, but often become weaker in short range. Laser vomit has moderate effectiveness at every range. You get to be really good at X and really bad at Y, or you get to be decent at both X and Y. Laser vomit is versatile.


There are also other factors in here, such as upfront tonnage opportunity costs. Lasers are more tonnage-efficient than any other weapon family. They require vastly lower sacrifices than ballistics and some missiles, which makes them more accessible to a wider variety of mechs (many mechs run out of tonnage real fast).


There are also nerfs to non-laser systems that have contributed. Specifically, Autocannon and PPC velocity nerfs have distinguished lasers as being much more accurate at long ranges than ACs. An honorable mention is the Gauss Rifle, which is a very excellent weapon mainly because of having so damn much velocity. People say "but low velocity isn't an issue, just lead/aim better you nub," but the PPC velocity nerfs have proven this argument to be wrong by going from dominant to mediocre with just a velocity nerf. Lasers, being hitscan, are very easy to hit with at long ranges, even if just for partial damage.


The Mad Cat and Ryoken have exasperated the situation somewhat with their large engines. These two mechs have forced IS mechs to either use a STD engine to survive their laser alphas, or use a very large XL engine to not lose the mobility contest. In both cases, those engines eat up a lot of tonnage. Lasers, conveniently, require relatively little tonnage, which makes them the optimal choice for large-engine builds.


Clan lasers in general have also contributed by just being so damn amazing.

On the other end they are good for the game because they are not front loaded damage and long burn times for Clans. So players have a chance to twist and spread damage. If you are going to have a main meta you are better off with one that is not front loaded damage at range.

[FupDup]

Deathlike, on 22 May 2015 - 11:49 AM, said:

I thought you'd sum it up with the rainbow vomit pic.

I'll leave you to that meme.

Deathlike, on 22 May 2015 - 11:49 AM, said:

Unfortunately Clan lasers can't save the Mist Lynx.

Only Lolcust-level Quirkening can. In other words, the lil Lynx's heart will always be filled with tears.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

I'm curious what weapons you think are left? ER PPC are hot and slow, ballistics look fantastic on paper but are unreliable, missiles are niche or unreliable. Additionally, CW doesn't make ammo based builds all that attractive. Our options are lasers and Gauss.

Edited by Rouken, 22 May 2015 - 11:54 AM.

[Fate 6]

Moldur, on 22 May 2015 - 11:20 AM, said:

Implying clans are worse offenders than IS.

Just wait until Gyrok gets there then you'll be putting your foot in your mouth.

[Aiden Skye]

Plz IS has just as much laser vomit backed up by quirks.
IS also has more functioning ballistics and Missiles but choose not to use them. IS also has way more quirks to make these systems more effective.
This thread is fail. 0/10
Go home troll.