99 replies to this topic

[FlipOver]

I really can't understand people saying there are too many EMCs on the field.
If the enemy uses ECM, you use BAP.
Place BAP in each of your mechs and you will see ECM isn't all that big of a deal.

I understand the ECM system is broken, but if we have BAP to use, why whine about it and not just change the builds a bit to fit a BAP?

[Sorbic]

I can adjust my builds as needed. I have no control over the 11 other people on my team...

[Night Thastus]

Also, BAP only counters 1 ECM for the mech YOU are currently targeting, and just for you. It doesn't counter it for everyone else.
ECM is a bubble that affects teammates in a radius. BAP therefore can never truly compete. Even in a 12 man, and everyone has BAP, it's not perfect.

[Chagatay]

FlipOver, on 24 May 2015 - 01:48 PM, said:

I really can't understand people saying there are too many EMCs on the field.
If the enemy uses ECM, you use BAP.
Place BAP in each of your mechs and you will see ECM isn't all that big of a deal.

I understand the ECM system is broken, but if we have BAP to use, why whine about it and not just change the builds a bit to fit a BAP?

ECM is much better than BAP. The cool thing is the more ECM mechs there are the number of BAP/cAP mechs goes down (as their weapons become less and less effective). It will eventually reach a sort of critical mass and I am sure at that point changes will happen but before that PGI can milk it for all its worth (selling ECM mechs).

[Khobai]

Quote

I really can't understand people saying there are too many EMCs on the field.
If the enemy uses ECM, you use BAP.

1) ECM stealths mechs at long-range

2) BAP only counters ECM at short-range

See the problem? Its a derpy system... If youre going to add an effective counter to ECM it needs to have the same range that ECM reduces detection by.

[Shredhead]

Khobai, on 24 May 2015 - 02:02 PM, said:

1) ECM stealths mechs at long-range

Oh really? I can see them quite well, no stealth whatsoever. I can even report their location via ingame VoIP.

Quote

2) BAP only counters ECM at short-range

See the problem? Its a derpy system... If youre going to add an effective counter to ECM it needs to have the same range that ECM reduces detection by.

There is no problem, only for people who want to make up one. TAG, NARC, PPCs, UAVs all counter the effect on the minimap.

[Goose]

Beagle only helps when you are up close and personal, where you can be clobbers by his 7 friends.

TAG only works on one target, and tends to give your position away.

PPCs are kind'a heavy for the units that should be doing this job, and require a level of gunnery that suggests you should'a been in something bigger, and gives your position away.

Even if the Light PPC was here, it'd only address one-third the issue …

[CrushLibs]

BAP should counter the two closest mechs to you and should be increased to 400m range.

make it worth our while.

[Goose]

Shredhead, on 24 May 2015 - 02:17 PM, said:

I can even report their location via ingame VoIP.

Which is not the sensor net, so you have failed to inform your team anything.

Shredhead, on 24 May 2015 - 02:17 PM, said:

There is no problem, only for people who want to make up one. TAG, NARC, PPCs, UAVs all counter the effect on the minimap.

None of these work, as there is rarely just one ECM-%$#Q@, and staring at the minimap is how you get yourself killed in combat.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

ECM is fundamentally broken mechanically anyway, and by virtue of being broken it breaks other equipment as well.

[Clownwarlord]

The issue is that ECM prevents an entire weapon system called LRMs this even BAP doesn't help because to be in range for BAP to work LRMs are almost useless and the mech is then vulnerable to a rush and brawling.

[Shredhead]

Goose, on 24 May 2015 - 02:22 PM, said:

Which is not the sensor net, so you have failed to inform your team anything.

There are map grids and a compass. If you haven't figured that out yet, you failed at l2p.

Quote

None of these work, as there is rarely just one ECM-%$#Q@, and staring at the minimap is how you get yourself killed in combat.

All of these work. Not looking at the minimap every few seconds is how you get killed in this game.

[Goose]

Putting you head into the cockpit at all will get you killed.

No one understands compass headings, and the map grid listing doesn't appear up on the compass.

Care to take another turn?

[bad arcade kitty]

ecm doesn't make mechs invisible, if you use a direct weapon you can see and aim them with your eyes
if you use streaks, cap has enough range
if you use lurms you have to suffer for a good reason

stealth effect positively adds to the gameplay on our tiny maps making scouting more important

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 24 May 2015 - 04:48 PM.

[El Bandito]

Fat lot of good BAP does against ECM bubbled mechs 700 meters away.

El Bandito, on 24 May 2015 - 01:40 AM, said:

The select few chassis argument really does not hold water as long as it has the ability to bubble the team--making everyone inside it having ECM protection. With its current set of abilities, one is bound to see multiple sets of ECM mechs running around. More, after Wave III is released. What then?

People also need to realize that direct fire weapons are also affected by ECM since there will be no paper doll telling you where the enemy weak points are, or his loadouts--thus affecting the match in a big way. Even if no one plays LRMs anymore, the ECM mechs will still be a big factor in team composition.

In fact, the death of LRMs will likely mean death of TAG and NARC, further giving benefit to ECM usage.

Edited by El Bandito, 24 May 2015 - 05:01 PM.

[Armorine]

no matter how you cut it ecm is broken. even if they took away the bubble effect it would still be a VERY powerful tool. its tonnage is light compared to what it does. if its carry a few tons of ammo or carry an ecm youu choose ECM every time.

[FlipOver]

This is a team based game, as such, I have no problem in equipping my mech with BAP and if the opportunity comes, I get as close as safely possible to counter their ECM.
If there are more ECMS, then more mechs can come with me and do the same.

At the end of the day, as much as many of you would like it not to happen, the battles come to a brawl. Until then, positioning and team play can do the trick against ECM.
But then again, I suppose nobody wants to change their comfortable position as a popup-sniper to do any actual field work.

I know ECM is broken, but as far as I can see, there are ways around it. What I also see is people not willing to change their playing style to adapt.

Yes, you need to get close to the ECM to counter it with your BAP, but most of the times this just means you need to navigate the map safely to position yourself out of harms-way and still do your thing.
It's not that hard, even I have managed to do that plenty of times and it worked well against 1 ECM.
If there are more, I either get the company of more BAP mechs or launch a UAV.

I understand that having lots of ECM in field means less locks for LRMs, but if people would do what some already do (fit BAP + maneuver close to enemy to counter) this would not be a problem.
Hence the question. Is this a problem of the game or the players and their playing style?

[Carrioncrows]

1. Because BAP only works up close.

2. More specifically you have to be close to THAT specific ECM mech to counter it. Generally there are enemies between you and them. And they are under the effects of ECM.

3. Even if you accomplish points 1 and 2, congrats. You are now within the enemy death ball to cancel out their ECM and now guess what? More than likely they have more than one ECM mech.

So I'll tell you what you do TOM!!!

You do the exact same thing you do when you see a Sumo Wrestler and a Chimpanzee go at it hard!. You keep your distance and stay the XXXX out of it and WAIT. CALMLY WAIT!!!!..... for your chance to club the survivor over the head with the biggest stick you can find.

Words to live by.

[Alistair Winter]

It's partially a tragedy of the commons situation. Every player is trying to min-max their build, so they leave out AMS and BAP. And yet, especially in a pug match, the team as whole would definitely benefit if more people had AMS and BAP.

It's not quite the same in group matches, because you can work around the disadvantage of enemy ECM and/or LRM superiority if you have good enough players and/or good enough communication.

But in a pug match, where LRM boats can do amazing damage against people who find themselves in bad positions, it would often be a huge advantage if more people had BAP and AMS.

[STEF_]

FlipOver, on 24 May 2015 - 01:48 PM, said:

I really can't understand people saying there are too many EMCs on the field.
If the enemy uses ECM, you use BAP.
Place BAP in each of your mechs and you will see ECM isn't all that big of a deal.

I understand the ECM system is broken, but if we have BAP to use, why whine about it and not just change the builds a bit to fit a BAP?

SO, if you cannot understand I can make a lillte guide for you.

1) ecm cover the all the map. BAP counter ecm only in a small radius.

2) tag. wow...those ridiculous ones saying "but TAG con counter ecm!"
.. nice to hold the tag on enemy ecm while being hit by the entire enemy team, right?
Meanwhile ECM covers all, without any kind of problems.

3) "but there is narc". hahahahahha, 2-3 tons+1 tons ammo. And dat 500kph speed.
And dat bunch of seconds durations, awesome, right?
While ecm: 1 tons, last forever, no problem.

4) "use uav", says the ecm fun boy. hahahahahah! uav.
When I see enemy uav, I spit on it, and uav is down.

I can make some other sarcastic comments about ecm fun boyz.
lemme know.

(for instance, average ecm fun boy loves ecm because he cannot deal with enemy lrm, and come in the forum to qq for being lurmed....
a lot of others l2p comments for ecm fun boys.... maybe I'll write another thread for them...)

clownwarlord, on 24 May 2015 - 02:42 PM, said:

The issue is that ECM prevents an entire weapon system called LRMs this even BAP doesn't help because to be in range for BAP to work LRMs are almost useless and the mech is then vulnerable to a rush and brawling.

^^