65 replies to this topic

[Anakha]

https://twitter.com/...009097097547778

My take: We would take the ability swap FF for ES on mechs that have lack ES if that was the only option but that I think all mechs should have the option to upgrade to ES and FF if they have the free slots in their build. I think those 2 items should be a basic fundamental building block ability for all mechs (IS and Clan). That would establish a solid base foundation for all mechs from which to quirk from for further balance. Otherwise when certain ones do not have it you end up with PGI trying to quirk to fix it.

[Deathlike]

Do we know what the tonnage gained for the mechs that would benefit?

Current list off the top of my head:
Gargles
Summoner
Maddog

Edit:
Looked up Smurfys and forgot Warhawk

Edited by Deathlike, 25 May 2015 - 06:06 PM.

[Xetelian]

Let me trade FF for Endo please.

Unlock jumpjets and DHS.

[Alek Ituin]

Deathlike, on 25 May 2015 - 06:05 PM, said:

Do we know what the tonnage gained for the mechs that would benefit?

Current list off the top of my head:
Gargles
Summoner
Maddog

Edit:
Looked up Smurfys and forgot Warhawk

That pretty much covers it. Notice how that list is 75% of the worst Clan chassis in the game.

Yes, Gargles the S**twizard is one of the worst chassis in game. Summoner is just trash, Mad Dog is trash too (AFAICT), and the Warhawk is entirely unloved next to the DWF (for no reason).

[Kiiyor]

I support a ferro for endo switch.

In the absence of a meaningful mechanical change to make ferro an attractive option, this looks like a pretty good compromise between a complete unlock and what we have now.

[Navid A1]

Deathlike, on 25 May 2015 - 06:05 PM, said:

Do we know what the tonnage gained for the mechs that would benefit?

Current list off the top of my head:
Gargles
Summoner
Maddog

Edit:
Looked up Smurfys and forgot Warhawk

Weight gain depends on how much armor you have in mind to use.
but with my current armor ratings:

Summoner: you gain 3.5 tons by transferring from std to endo. you loose about 2-2.3 tons by going from FF to standard.

Warhawk: you gain 4 tons with endo, you loose about 2.6 by going from FF to std.

Gargles: you gain 4 for endo, you loose about 2.4 for going from FF to std.

Maddog: you gain 3 for going endo, you loose 2 for going from FF to std




in case they decide to allow upgrades for Novas and hellbringers:

Nova: gains 2.5 from endo and about 1.6 from FF

Hellbringer: 3 tons from endo and about 2 from FF

Edited by Navid A1, 25 May 2015 - 06:23 PM.

[Deathlike]

Alek Ituin, on 25 May 2015 - 06:11 PM, said:

Yes, Gargles the S**twizard is one of the worst chassis in game. Summoner is just trash, Mad Dog is trash too (AFAICT), and the Warhawk is entirely unloved next to the DWF (for no reason).

Whaaaaa... I love my Gargles. It's like #1 of the (terribad to mediocre/meddling) 80-tonners!

Let me wub you.

[Mcgral18]

Deathlike, on 25 May 2015 - 06:05 PM, said:

Do we know what the tonnage gained for the mechs that would benefit?

Current list off the top of my head:
Gargles
Summoner
Maddog

Edit:
Looked up Smurfys and forgot Warhawk

Mr Gargles goes from 19.5 to 21 (and able to use full tons of armour effectively, not needing to strip).

Summoner goes from 21 to 22, with the above armour rounding solved

MadDog goes from 26 to 27.

PeaceDove from 32.5 to 33.5


Slight, but notable improvements. Essentially 1 ton each, fudging around armour.

Edited by Mcgral18, 25 May 2015 - 06:19 PM.

[El Bandito]

Deathlike, on 25 May 2015 - 06:05 PM, said:

Do we know what the tonnage gained for the mechs that would benefit?

Current list off the top of my head:
Gargles
Summoner
Maddog

Edit:
Looked up Smurfys and forgot Warhawk

Cheatbringer. Gains 3 tons from Endo, if they are allowed to pick one.

Edited by El Bandito, 25 May 2015 - 06:23 PM.

[Deathlike]

Mcgral18, on 25 May 2015 - 06:19 PM, said:

Mr Gargles goes from 19.5 to 21 (and able to use full tons of armour effectively, not needing to strip).

Well, I'll strip a ton and try to get in more DHS or Gauss ammo...

Quote

Summoner goes from 21 to 22, with the above armour rounding solved

+1 DHS

Quote

MadDog goes from 26 to 27.

I don't usually run this, but probably more ammo/DHS is there...

Quote

PeaceDove from 32.5 to 33.5


Slight, but notable improvements.

I don't think my builds need to change for the Warhawk at this point (it's already a mess given the conditions). What am I going to do with the extra ton... Targeting Comp v2 -> v3? (although, that wouldn't really work if I am using the CT).

El Bandito, on 25 May 2015 - 06:19 PM, said:

You forgot Cheatbringer. It will gain 4 tons from Endo + FF, making it better than Black Jag.

This is a conversion from Endo->FF. So... no dice.

Though... the Nova would love it, not just the Hellbringer.

Edited by Deathlike, 25 May 2015 - 06:22 PM.

[Navid A1]

Mcgral18, on 25 May 2015 - 06:19 PM, said:

Mr Gargles goes from 19.5 to 21 (and able to use full tons of armour effectively, not needing to strip).

Summoner goes from 21 to 22, with the above armour rounding solved

MadDog goes from 26 to 27.

PeaceDove from 32.5 to 33.5


Slight, but notable improvements. Essentially 1 ton each, fudging around armour.

Peacedove gains about 1.5 actually (60 / 72 on both legs) ... you run full leg armor?

[Mcgral18]

Navid A1, on 25 May 2015 - 06:28 PM, said:

Peacedove gains about 1.5 actually (60 / 72 on both legs) ... you run full leg armor?

Yes, bad things happen when you don't.

[Deathlike]

Navid A1, on 25 May 2015 - 06:28 PM, said:

Peacedove gains about 1.5 actually (60 / 72 on both legs) ... you run full leg armor?

Does the Wubhawk wub?

What kind of silly questions are you asking?

[Dino Might]

Endo instead of Ferro would be a big step in the right direction, helping out underperforming Clan mechs. The only chassis I'd hesitate on this is the Hellbringer. It might eclipse the Timby if they do this. It's still more squishy and no JJs, but it would have even better cooling capability for it's rather hefty firepower. I wouldn't mind if they did it, but I don't think it's necessary because the chassis is still outstanding.

Also, how about dropping Ferro from the Timby as a potential buff? The tonnage saved is marginal, and the freeing up of some crits might be nice for things like heat sinks in the legs and ballistic space in torsos (can't remember if any torso slots are ferro).

Edited by Dino Might, 25 May 2015 - 06:36 PM.

[Elizander]

Just let them have Endo already and deal with the fallout later.

Making up 3-4 tons of space loss in quirks is gonna be messy until the end. Make all clam mechs even then you can probably think up better ways to balance them instead of this:

IS Mechs quirk chase top clam mechs and bottom tier clam mechs quick chase quirked IS Mechs.

Edited by Elizander, 25 May 2015 - 06:37 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

a topic discussing this can be found here,
(Ferro To Endo Upgrade Swapping For Omni-Mechs! Discussion!)

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Alek Ituin, on 25 May 2015 - 06:11 PM, said:

Warhawk is entirely unloved next to the DWF (for no reason).

no crit slots. When you have an entire torso unusable on all the omnipods, it loses usability

Still cant wait for clam battlemechs XD

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 25 May 2015 - 06:53 PM.

[operatorZ]

El Bandito, on 25 May 2015 - 06:19 PM, said:

Cheatbringer. Gains 3 tons from Endo, if they are allowed to pick one.

Lol at cheatbringer....really? Not enough nerfs for you? Need MOAR!!!! Lol

[Andi Nagasia]

Russ seemed fully against Unlocking Upgrades For OmniMechs,
but Allowing a Ferro to Endo switch he seemed to like, and agree with,
i case of a Ferro to Endo Switch the MDD, SMN, GAR, & WHK would all gain 2-3Tons, but only them,

[The Mechromancer]

I'd really like them give a disadvantage to structure 1st. And give FF a bonus to compensate for the smaller tonnage gain.

FF:
+small tonnage gain
+more armor points

ES:
++big tonnage gain
-weaker internals

That way Crows and Twolves receive a nerf/buff while the underperformers get a straight buff. Allowing a swap just makes FF even more light-exclusive.

I like the idea of them being a survivability/firepower choice (at the cost of slots).