79 replies to this topic

[Sergeant Random]

The digital art is good, no doubt. The mech-walking-tank aesthetic is strong. We have mechs and maps. And a steady inflow of more mechs and maps... But I'm hoping that is not all there is to it. Is it just art that is pulling this together?

PGI, please rise to the challenge, put the "game" in game studio. The Battletech franchise and game system is strong, and is holding its own. But I'm hoping PGI can really make its mark, make this game truly their own. Please dispel the negative "cash grab" vibe.

(Yes, I'm bitter with my TBRs and SCRs. I bought wave 1, I levelled and customized them... The nerfs sort of make sense, but I'm still bitter.)

[Kiiyor]

IMHO, the art is a good half of the backbone of an MW title - and in MWO, the mechs have never looked better. Even frankenmechs like the Catapault (though comparatively hideous compared to what it was) look better in MWO than any other title.

The other part of the backbone, to me, is the feel of the combat. It needs to be weighty, and have impact - and I think we have that in spades. PGI nailed that.

The rest is just gravy. I'm enjoying CW (despite PUGGING it) and i'm excited to see what they're doing with map redesigns for the pub queues. I'm enjoying the sense of renewed purpose with IGP gone. I'm enjoying forum warfare.

The big one will be CW. I think it's close to stupendous - it's a whisper of something great. I hope it becomes so awesome that it's the de-facto game mode.

[El Bandito]

Kiiyor, on 26 May 2015 - 01:49 AM, said:

IMHO, the art is a good half of the backbone of an MW title - and in MWO, the mechs have never looked better. Even frankenmechs like the Catapault (though comparatively hideous compared to what it was) look better in MWO than any other title.

The other part of the backbone, to me, is the feel of the combat. It needs to be weighty, and have impact - and I think we have that in spades. PGI nailed that.

TBF, almost all MW games that came before MWO were at least a decade older. That's just unfair comparison. Plus, some MWO mechs are far worse looking than MWLL mechs. Awesome is one example.



The feel of the combat is nice in MWO but it lacks so many features the previous MW titles had, such as scaling heat penalty, collision, destructible objects, varied gravity, or even a bloody rear view monitor. The game also lacks immersion in terms of actual mech sizes. I never feel like a giant in MWO, where as playing MW3 and MWLL had given me such feeling.

Edited by El Bandito, 26 May 2015 - 06:17 AM.

[Templar Dane]

If CW was hardcore mode, and the mechs paid for out of the unit's wallet........

Income from contracts/salvage/holding planets........

[Kiiyor]

El Bandito, on 26 May 2015 - 01:58 AM, said:

TBF, almost all MW games that came before MWO ware a tleast a decade older. That's just unfair comparison. Plus, some MWO mechs are far worse looking than MWLL mechs. Awesome is one example.



The feel of the combat is nice in MWO but it lacks so many features the previous MW titles had, such as scaling heat penalty, collision, destructible terrain, varied gravity, or even a bloody rear view monitor. The game also lacks immersion in terms of actual mech sizes. I never feel like a giant in MWO, where as playing MW3 and MWLL had given me such feeling.

I look at that Awesome and drool - mainly because of the high weapon mounts though

I do like the Awesome we have, but it's got 'one of the first mechs' syndrome. IMHO, the newer mechs look far better than the older ones.

I'd love to see a geometry revisit like WOT did for their older models.

[MeiSooHaityu]

El Bandito, on 26 May 2015 - 01:58 AM, said:

TBF, almost all MW games that came before MWO ware a tleast a decade older. That's just unfair comparison. Plus, some MWO mechs are far worse looking than MWLL mechs. Awesome is one example.



The feel of the combat is nice in MWO but it lacks so many features the previous MW titles had, such as scaling heat penalty, collision, destructible terrain, varied gravity, or even a bloody rear view monitor. The game also lacks immersion in terms of actual mech sizes. I never feel like a giant in MWO, where as playing MW3 and MWLL had given me such feeling.

Well, MW:LL isn't a MechWarrior game. It's a fan made Crysis mod. It's a good mod, but not a game. I think we have been without a MechWarrior game for so long, that people like to conveniently forget that fact.

Anyway, I actually like MWO's version way better than the living legends mod, although that version is more accurate to the original. The Awesome was never one of my favorite looking mechs anyway though. I do bet the mod's version has better hitboxes though lol.

[Sergeant Random]

Kiiyor, on 26 May 2015 - 01:49 AM, said:

IMHO, the art is a good half of the backbone of an MW title - and in MWO, the mechs have never looked better. Even frankenmechs like the Catapault (though comparatively hideous compared to what it was) look better in MWO than any other title.

The other part of the backbone, to me, is the feel of the combat. It needs to be weighty, and have impact - and I think we have that in spades. PGI nailed that.

The rest is just gravy. I'm enjoying CW (despite PUGGING it) and i'm excited to see what they're doing with map redesigns for the pub queues. I'm enjoying the sense of renewed purpose with IGP gone. I'm enjoying forum warfare.

No doubts on the visceral combat and all the sweet eye candy.

But Russ Bullock had plenty more content to pitch to publishers back in 2009:
http://m.ign.com/art...e-first-details

But as luck would have it, no publishers took interest:
http://www.pcgamer.c...ng-mechwarrior/

And here we have F2P MWO. The annual operating cycle has revolved around the digital art assets and selling them.

I don't mean to second-guess their accounting department, but maybe they could invest in some development time in the skill trees Russ mentioned in 2009? (Or anything else that is fresh for MW) Because they are leaning on the Franchise, I was hoping they would put their own mark on the system. Something new besides Paulconomy skill trees? I dont know, Russ seemed so excited in that first interview. Maybe he still has it in him. Maybe he isn't afraid of the TT purists.

Can you blame me for wanting to be wowed even more? Sigh. Information warfare.

[Satan n stuff]

lordtzar, on 26 May 2015 - 01:59 AM, said:

If CW was hardcore mode, and the mechs paid for out of the unit's wallet........

Income from contracts/salvage/holding planets........

... no-one would ever play it because only the best players could afford to.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Although we will never know for sure, I think IGP set the game's development back a year at least. I think they delayed non-primary revenue generating content (maps, CW, etc...) for mechs and camo. After all, IGP needed MWO money to fund the dog of a game called MechWarrior Tactics.

Since IGP has been bought out of MWO, we have seen more maps and CW (although we all know it was still in some sort of development when IGP was in charge).

Still, clearly there is a focus on primary generating content (look at all the mech packs), but they do tackle other non direct revenue generating things like the new River City. That's something we didn't see under IGP.

Still, there is this persistent wonder if PGI is really just modifying a core game and not truly developing it. If that is true, real content change may be slow and tedious (and that can be a good way to describe the past 3 years).

In any case, I hope there is some good change coming. IGP is off their back and people seem to still be buying packs to help fund it. Let's hope they keep plugging away at the content.

[anonymous161]

vote with yoour wallots gentlemen. The only thing I spend money on anymore since like last year during clan wave 1 is premium time anymore.

[Triordinant]

Maybe it'll be Harebrained Schemes that'll be handling the "game" part. Pure speculation of course.

[Anjian]

Kiiyor, on 26 May 2015 - 01:49 AM, said:

IMHO, the art is a good half of the backbone of an MW title - and in MWO, the mechs have never looked better. Even frankenmechs like the Catapault (though comparatively hideous compared to what it was) look better in MWO than any other title.

The other part of the backbone, to me, is the feel of the combat. It needs to be weighty, and have impact - and I think we have that in spades. PGI nailed that.

The rest is just gravy. I'm enjoying CW (despite PUGGING it) and i'm excited to see what they're doing with map redesigns for the pub queues. I'm enjoying the sense of renewed purpose with IGP gone. I'm enjoying forum warfare.

The big one will be CW. I think it's close to stupendous - it's a whisper of something great. I hope it becomes so awesome that it's the de-facto game mode.

I don't really feel this game captured the feel of a mech. In fact, I feel the animations look funny sometimes and the sounds all wrong.

I consider the mech in Battlefield 2142 as the gold standard of what a video game mech walker should feel and sound like.

[LordNothing]

i view it more as commercialized modding. very few of the new features look like they needed a programmer at all. majority of the "new" features are: mechs, maps, and balence tweaks. this is prime modding territory. what you dont see a lot of, are things that require programming. game modes, gameplay mechanics, weapons, etc. i suspect they might have a guy who can edit xml files, maybe somone who knows some lua or python or whatever scripting language crytek uses. i dont think they have someone who can roll out an engine level patch (or if their crytek license allows for tweaks inside the code blob, or even if they have access to the source code). if they have such a person then they are not a regular, just someone they bring in when they need them.

so yea, they are making mods, and then charging you for them. i guess thats required when you need to control the content. you cant have people modding the game because that would break your financial model, your servers, and cause a hell of a support overhead. so instead you do it for them.

Edited by LordNothing, 26 May 2015 - 05:23 AM.

[Lostdragon]

LordNothing, on 26 May 2015 - 05:13 AM, said:

i view it more as commercialized modding. very few of the new features look like they needed a programmer at all. majority of the "new" features are: mechs, maps, and balence tweaks. this is prime modding territory. what you dont see a lot of, are things that require programming. game modes, gameplay mechanics, weapons, etc. i suspect they might have a guy who can edit xml files, maybe somone who knows some lua or python or whatever scripting language crytek uses. i dont think they have someone who can roll out an engine level patch (or if their crytek license allows for tweaks inside the code blob, or even if they have access to the source code). if they have such a person then they are not a regular, just someone they bring in when they need them.

so yea, they are making mods, and then charging you for them. i guess thats required when you need to control the content. you cant have people modding the game because that would break your financial model, your servers, and cause a hell of a support overhead. so instead you do it for them.

Interesting perspective, and maybe right on. It definitely seems like the stuff that requires more than adding art or tweaking numbers is really difficult for them. I've been wholly unimpressed with the front end UI, CW, lack of tutorials, etc.

[MeiSooHaityu]

LordNothing, on 26 May 2015 - 05:13 AM, said:

i view it more as commercialized modding. very few of the new features look like they needed a programmer at all. majority of the "new" features are: mechs, maps, and balence tweaks. this is prime modding territory. what you dont see a lot of, are things that require programming. game modes, gameplay mechanics, weapons, etc. i suspect they might have a guy who can edit xml files, maybe somone who knows some lua or python or whatever scripting language crytek uses. i dont think they have someone who can roll out an engine level patch (or if their crytek license allows for tweaks inside the code blob, or even if they have access to the source code). if they have such a person then they are not a regular, just someone they bring in when they need them.

so yea, they are making mods, and then charging you for them. i guess thats required when you need to control the content. you cant have people modding the game because that would break your financial model, your servers, and cause a hell of a support overhead. so instead you do it for them.

Generally I agree.

I think they are programming more content than core mechanics. As a small developer, I wonder if they weren't relying on Crytek's support for some of the more detailed Cryengine core programming changes. I wouldn't even doubt that Crytek's bankruptcy caused a huge disruption in development. Maybe even their network programming was farmed out. Its hard to say for certain.

I still wouldn't call them modders though, I'd call them developers for sure. A lot of companies buy prepackaged game engines to save time, money, and have a solid framework on which to build a game. I think PGI has done enough to fit in that category. If we counted every company who bought an engine a modder, we would have very few developers.

[Johnny Z]

Sergeant Random, on 26 May 2015 - 01:16 AM, said:

The digital art is good, no doubt. The mech-walking-tank aesthetic is strong. We have mechs and maps. And a steady inflow of more mechs and maps... But I'm hoping that is not all there is to it. Is it just art that is pulling this together?

PGI, please rise to the challenge, put the "game" in game studio. The Battletech franchise and game system is strong, and is holding its own. But I'm hoping PGI can really make its mark, make this game truly their own. Please dispel the negative "cash grab" vibe.

(Yes, I'm bitter with my TBRs and SCRs. I bought wave 1, I levelled and customized them... The nerfs sort of make sense, but I'm still bitter.)

I have the same thoughts. Is this game stringing the players along like so many other games.

The things to remember is that this game had NO maps for an extremely long time and FEW mechs for an extremely long time. They are adding both now steady. Which is smart for building a full first rate game(by first rate I mean top games out of which there is very few if any at the moment), which this isnt as of yet, but its on the way to it, and the only way is to have lots of realistate and mechs and 100 other things all the players want in a game. Again the game play may already be up near the top but so much else is missing or half done it doesnt put Mechwarrior at the top yet.

This looks to be a big year for games in general and for this game especially. Many popular games coming out maybe. I am almost sure Mechwarrior has alot of content stockpiled for during and after the Steam launch. This makes sense, so I have been expecting a sort of slow time for Mechwarrior leading up to this. Am I right? No idea. I will wait and see.

One thing I know is I will have a nice head start at ranking up and my mech stable will be flush before the Steam noobs show up.

Edited by Johnny Z, 26 May 2015 - 06:51 AM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

MeiSooHaityu, on 26 May 2015 - 02:27 AM, said:

Well, MW:LL isn't a MechWarrior game. It's a fan made Crysis mod. It's a good mod, but not a game.

Yet its leagues better than the game is which is hilarious

[MeiSooHaityu]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 26 May 2015 - 07:32 AM, said:

Yet its leagues better than the game is which is hilarious

Nostalgia is great isn't it? I still feel like the Dukes of Hazard was a great show .

[Summon3r]

Sergeant Random, on 26 May 2015 - 01:16 AM, said:

The digital art is good, no doubt. The mech-walking-tank aesthetic is strong. We have mechs and maps. And a steady inflow of more mechs and maps... But I'm hoping that is not all there is to it. Is it just art that is pulling this together?

PGI, please rise to the challenge, put the "game" in game studio. The Battletech franchise and game system is strong, and is holding its own. But I'm hoping PGI can really make its mark, make this game truly their own. Please dispel the negative "cash grab" vibe.

(Yes, I'm bitter with my TBRs and SCRs. I bought wave 1, I levelled and customized them... The nerfs sort of make sense, but I'm still bitter.)

good point, tbh i dont think they have a clue in the world how to give this game any depth or reasonable balance system.

El Bandito, on 26 May 2015 - 01:58 AM, said:

TBF, almost all MW games that came before MWO were at least a decade older. That's just unfair comparison. Plus, some MWO mechs are far worse looking than MWLL mechs. Awesome is one example.



The feel of the combat is nice in MWO but it lacks so many features the previous MW titles had, such as scaling heat penalty, collision, destructible objects, varied gravity, or even a bloody rear view monitor. The game also lacks immersion in terms of actual mech sizes. I never feel like a giant in MWO, where as playing MW3 and MWLL had given me such feeling.

and this 100%

[Tennex]

their modeling/animation has been slipping lately

which was a major part of this game and its revenue

Edited by Tennex, 26 May 2015 - 07:57 AM.