32 replies to this topic

[Darian DelFord]

So like most lights I run into other mechs from time to time and my legs are always damaged. I can run into a mech at 1kph and take leg damage. So why is it I can run 150 KPH into a Rock facing on any map and take 0 damage?

Just dawned on me for some reason and thought it funny and posted about it.

The things that make you go Hmmmmm....

Edited by Darian DelFord, 26 May 2015 - 06:01 AM.

[jlawsl]

Its something that I have always thought takes the responsibility out of piloting and turns the whole thing into a alpha based slug fest. Collisions don't exist and mechs can fall from mountains and take little or no damage. They fall down sheer rock walls, cliffs, crevasses, ravines and towers and somehow, someway keep upright. It makes no sense. Most mechs should just tumble down a hill if it is taken too fast. But we can't do that.

[Sergeant Random]

Hitreg

[LordBraxton]

Then pilots would have to think about positioning... Back when the game was great, and we had knockdowns, you had to watch your formation as a team, otherwise a push could end as a dogpile of allied mechs getting shot to bits.

I want that back, (another positon at the time\lie where they promised to fix it asap)

Add environmenal collision and this game would have real depth.

Losers whined, features died.

[Mawai]

The only collision damage with terrain is from falling. Otherwise, there is some but not much damage allocated from mech to mech collisions.

As for why terrain interactions other than falling don't cause damage ... I would guess it would be due to the processing overhead required. At the moment, all the server needs to do is to keep track of mech position, facing and velocity. The mech motion is rendered client side. If terrain collisions caused damage then the server would have to calculate the impact speed and angle with every piece of terrain for every mech on the map to determine whether any damage should be allocated and if so to which part of the mech ... should the center torso get damage if you bump the roof of the cave on Forest Colony? What about arms?

Anyway, although it might be more "realistic" in some sense ... I think the processing time required would not be worth the investment. (Also, one could assume that the folks who are trained to pilot these .. or the computer systems they run on ... are designed to minimize or eliminate any damage that might result from collisions with terrain. You could also invoke battle tech physics by stating that mechs are harder than the obstacles they can run into thus the obstacle is the item that takes damage not the mech ... unless you run into another mech.)

[Deathlike]

LordBraxton, on 26 May 2015 - 06:04 AM, said:

Then pilots would have to think about positioning... Back when the game was great, and we had knockdowns, you had to watch your formation as a team, otherwise a push could end as a dogpile of allied mechs getting shot to bits.

I want that back, (another positon at the time\lie where they promised to fix it asap)

Add environmenal collision and this game would have real depth.

Losers whined, features died.

TBH, you can thank Goons for <3ing Paul.

[Mawai]

LordBraxton, on 26 May 2015 - 06:04 AM, said:

Then pilots would have to think about positioning... Back when the game was great, and we had knockdowns, you had to watch your formation as a team, otherwise a push could end as a dogpile of allied mechs getting shot to bits.

I want that back, (another positon at the time\lie where they promised to fix it asap)

Add environmenal collision and this game would have real depth.

Losers whined, features died.

I never want collisions back the way they were ... it was atrocious, terrible, awful ... I need more adjectives. Having collisions would be fine with me but not the previous implementation.

By the way, I really enjoyed those collisions generally since it required some skill for me to dodge in and out of opposing mechs in my Jenner ... it was fun ... but it was a bad game mechanic for a number of reasons.

I assume you have seen the dragon bowling videos ... hilarious ... but not fun for the target as the dragon continuously rolls over a hunchback ... shoots it as it tries to get up and then knocks it over again.

I also did not like the mech tackle strategy ... folks would intentionally run down mechs so that their team mates could focus fire them down as the mech tried to stand up ... the only reason anyone survived was that client desyncs were common and each showed the fallen mech in a different location so coordinated damage was difficult. I did that with my Jenner ... it was hilariously stupid though effective.

Finally, a mech warrior game should not have and does not need a stun lock mechanism ... that is all the old collision code did. Knock a mech down, shoot it, knock it down again, shoot some more, repeat until dead.

Maybe you found it more enjoyable and required more skill ... I agree to some extent ... but the mechanism was so easily abused that it had to be removed.

[Alistair Winter]

Running up a 10 degree incline results in a considerable speed reduction. Crashing into a body of water and running literally completely submerged has no effect on speed what so ever.

Gravity is listed as around ~1 g on most maps. It's actually 3 g.

#justmwothings

Edited by Alistair Winter, 26 May 2015 - 07:17 AM.

[Hobo Dan]

Mawai, on 26 May 2015 - 06:17 AM, said:

I never want collisions back the way they were ... it was atrocious, terrible, awful ... I need more adjectives. Having collisions would be fine with me but not the previous implementation.

I have never read anyone asking for collisions to return exactly as they were in beta (broken). I am getting quite tired of people using the old broken implementation of collisions as a viable argument for why they should never come back. Of course we don’t want PGI to just copy/paste the old code back in. We want a new version of collisions.

[Dawnstealer]

LordBraxton, on 26 May 2015 - 06:04 AM, said:

Then pilots would have to think about positioning... Back when the game was great, and we had knockdowns, you had to watch your formation as a team, otherwise a push could end as a dogpile of allied mechs getting shot to bits.

I want that back, (another positon at the time\lie where they promised to fix it asap)

Add environmenal collision and this game would have real depth.

Losers whined, features died.

I want it to a point...

I wouldn't mind "knock back," over "knock down." If I slam into you with my Atlas, and you're not in a 100 ton mech, you should get shoved back proportionally to the weight difference.

I'm just wary of a return to this:

[LordBraxton]

Seen the videos? I probably bowled you over in my dragon! (my founders tag is disabled)

With TTK the speed it is at today, nobody would be bowlin anyone.

Collision did not factor heavily into the early 12v12s I participted in (when we had to sync drop) even back then, with no DPS, teamwork made 'bowling' a suicide charge. If you had even 200-300 meters between you, the more organized focus fire won, not the bowlers.

Today, a single mech carries 3x the firepower, and we have 8 more players per map.

Dragon bowling would only work against terrible pilots.

Bring. Back. Knockdown.
(fixed animations ofcourse)

@ the paul video. They already wrecked his team, and used half their damn team to keep knocking him down. It's always been a bad example, and proves nothing beyond the fragility of paul's ego. They could have just as easily shot his weapons off and danced around him to taunt him. It was the morale effect, not the in-game effect, that triggered the knee-jerk reaction to remove knockdown.

I do enjoy watching him get trolled though.

Edited by LordBraxton, 26 May 2015 - 06:53 AM.

[TyphonCh]

jlawsl, on 26 May 2015 - 06:00 AM, said:

Its something that I have always thought takes the responsibility out of piloting

^^

I wasn't around during the times of collisions.. and while the concept is cool, it was too easy to troll, and it looked like a frustrating mechanic from the get go.
If they brought it back, it should be more difficult to get knocked down in mech on mech collisions in general. Mass, speed and velocity algorithim, that has a RNG based on your weight class/actual tonnage. Lights have a chance to knock down lighter mediums if going full speed but take considerable damage, mediums have a chance to knock down lighter assaults if going full speed, etc... Just a thought.

[LORD TSARKON]

LordBraxton, on 26 May 2015 - 06:49 AM, said:

Seen the videos? I probably bowled you over in my dragon! (my founders tag is disabled)

With TTK the speed it is at today, nobody would be bowlin anyone.

Collision did not factor heavily into the early 12v12s I participted in (when we had to sync drop) even back then, with no DPS, teamwork made 'bowling' a suicide charge. If you had even 200-300 meters between you, the more organized focus fire won, not the bowlers.

Today, a single mech carries 3x the firepower, and we have 8 more players per map.

Dragon bowling would only work against terrible pilots.

Bring. Back. Knockdown.
(fixed animations ofcourse)

@ the paul video. They already wrecked his team, and used half their damn team to keep knocking him down. It's always been a bad example, and proves nothing beyond the fragility of paul's ego. They could have just as easily shot his weapons off and danced around him to taunt him. It was the morale effect, not the in-game effect, that triggered the knee-jerk reaction to remove knockdown.

I do enjoy watching him get trolled though.

and thats why Knockdowns will never be in this game... ever.... Because of Trollish behavior..

Its as simple as that

[Deathlike]

Alistair Winter, on 26 May 2015 - 06:20 AM, said:

Running up a 10 degree incline results in a considerable speed reduction. Crashing into a body of water and running literally completely submerged as no effect on speed what so ever.

Gravity is listed as around ~1 g on most maps. It's actually 3 g.

#justmwothings

#featuresnotbugs

[Gwendolyn Myra]

Deathlike, on 26 May 2015 - 06:09 AM, said:

TBH, you can thank Goons for <3ing Paul.

I couldn't care less about knockdowns coming back, yeah they are cool in tabletop and such but kind of a pain in this game. But I really really want collosions to be a thing. I don't want some light running into me and us phasing together for a few seconds until he magically teleports away. I want to be able to block someone in, I want mechs to not run into me just to throw off the server, and most annoyingly...I want to stop getting stuck in one place rubberbanding because me and someone else decided the same path was a good place to walk.

[Nightmare1]

Darian DelFord, on 26 May 2015 - 05:53 AM, said:

So like most lights I run into other mechs from time to time and my legs are always damaged. I can run into a mech at 1kph and take leg damage. So why is it I can run 150 KPH into a Rock facing on any map and take 0 damage?

Just dawned on me for some reason and thought it funny and posted about it.

The things that make you go Hmmmmm....

Cartoon Physics?

I wish that PGI would bring back collisions and knock-downs. It's just not MechWarrior without them!

Edited by Nightmare1, 26 May 2015 - 07:33 AM.

[stjobe]

Nightmare1, on 26 May 2015 - 07:32 AM, said:

I wish that PGI would bring back collisions and knock-downs. It's just not MechWarrior without them!

I'd much rather see working BT-style heat penalties if we're wishing for things that'll never happen.

[CDLord HHGD]

I take damage when I trade paint with a rock face.... Will verify...

[Almond Brown]

Alistair Winter, on 26 May 2015 - 06:20 AM, said:

Running up a 10 degree incline results in a considerable speed reduction. Crashing into a body of water and running literally completely submerged has no effect on speed what so ever.

Gravity is listed as around ~1 g on most maps. It's actually 3 g.

#justmwothings

All total Show stoppers yup. Getting up a 40⁰ incline at all, without using arms and hands is not a problem though?

Sounds more like

#justalistairthings

[Dawnstealer]

Another idea, if knock-downs were brought back, is give the pilot a chance to salvage it. Make a "pilot check," so to speak.

Make the mech wobble like crazy, like a drunk walk, and if the pilot doesn't correct it in time, or the right direction, it'll fall over.

Make it proportional to the weight difference. If I slam into a Dire Whale with my Locust, I shouldn't just bounce slightly and be able to go on my merry way.