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Back To Me Roots - A Clan Player's Trip Down Grasshopper Lane


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#1 1453 R

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 01:35 PM

So I had the weirdest thing happen to me recently. Figured I’d see if it’s ever happened to anyone else.

I’m almost exclusively a Clan pilot these days. Clan ‘Mechs just feel better to me overall, and combined with the fact that most of my pre-MWO BattleTech history has been largely pro-Clan (with the ferocious exception of the Smoked Jaguars), it’s just a good fit.

However, for whatever reason (almost certainly related to ‘Mech addiction and my weakness for robots of all types) I keep buying Resistance ‘Mechs I neither need nor generally pilot T_T. I bought up to Grasshoppers for Resistance 1, but given the enormous and unceasing glut of heavies in the Puglandia queue, I only recently started working with my Grasshoppers. Panthers I like a lot, and Enforcers…are a thing…but the Grasshoppers were the guys I was mostly interested in with Resistance 1, so of late I decided to just hang the heavy queue numbers and start working with these things.

This is the first time in a long while I’ve gone back to a heavy emphasis on Sphere ‘Mechs, outside a brief but intense fling with my Panthers (which perform uniquely enough that they didn’t feel like Sphere ‘Mechs). Impressions from an unrepentant Clansman below:

First thing I noticed – Sphere DHS are bulky as hell. I’m spoiled to high heaven on Clan 2-slot DHS and I freely admit it. How do you people manage with these porky bastiches?

Second thing I noticed – Unlocked engines really are nice. On the Clan side the Grasshopper woulda been stuck on a 280 and thus the machine would’ve been largely unusable at an incredibly mediocre ~71kph. On the Sphere side though, I can swap in a 330 or a 350 as appropriate (and as my XL engine collection permits) and shore up the ‘Mech’s speed as well as hitting the right balance between free weight and speed. I’m not sure if it’s a proper replacement for the omnipod system, at this point I’m so used to locked engines it really was an almost guilty pleasure to play rating-minmax again, but it is pretty slick. Really wish I had a 340 for the slower ‘Hoppers, though even then the [R] variant would likely still be my favorite.

Third thing I noticed – I’d forgotten how much Sphere XLs suck. The Grasshopper doesn’t have any especial problems with glass shoulders, nothing even remotely like Doges, and I would in fact consider it to have pretty good hitboxes from my experiences with it, but man I hate when catching an early Whale shot in a shoulder means I have to baby that side for the entire fight. I’m still waiting for the XL speed loss nerf on CXLs, and unlike some folks ‘round these parts I’ve never really objected to it. This has reminded me how much of an advantage the CXL really is, even with all the stuff Clansmen have to give up for it.

Fourth thing I noticed – LORDAMIGHTY you guys have, like, no beam range whatsoever. Grasshoppers are laser vomit chassis, that is literally all they can do, which is alright because I like lasers and have since I started playing, but one of the primary reasons I switched to Clans and never really looked back was that Clan beams felt powerful. At the time, Sphere beams were anemic also-rans to ballistics and PPCs, before both weapon categories had their legs cut out from under them. Now, I recognize that what I have are ER lasers and what you guys have are standard lasers, but those iML especially are just painfully short-ranged.

Fifth thing I noticed – MY GOD THESE LASERS DON’T EVEN HEAT BRO. So this is how you guys deal with those chubby-ass DHS – your lasers are, like, ice beams. It’d been so long since I’d run a beam-centric Sphere ‘Mech with appropriate heat sinkage (so not ERPPC Panthers) that I was completely unprepared for how cool-running Spheroid beams are compared to Clan energy. My GRH-5J[R] isn’t even all that extraneously heat-efficient compared to my typical Clan rides, but that didn’t really matter. Normally, two LPL and four ML would be a pretty ambitious energy loadout for my Clan rides, and definitely more focused on skirmishing alpha strikes around cover than on sustainable beam-brawling. There’s a reason most of my modern Clan designs don’t tend to use much more than four beams. The GRH needs to get a lot closer, but once it got there I felt like I could clamp down on the triggers for weeks on end and not worry. I don’t even know why.

Sixth thing I noticed – six jump jets do, in fact, jump. Turns out that people who equip two jump jets and then complain that all jets are worthless should probably equip more jump jets. I still feel like jet acceleration is too slow overall and especially on liftoff, but after that initial hovery hitch, I feel like the jets work all right. We just need to adjust the formula some so that all the classic three-jet jumpers aren’t quite so piggish in the air. And also adjust the forums so that people stop freaking taking two jets on their ‘Mechs and then complain they can’t jump. My GRH jumps just fine. It doesn’t fly, though at six jets I kinda wish it would, but it does in fact jump.

Seventh thing I noticed – Grasshoppers are tall as hell. Actually this was like the first thing I noticed after all the things I noticed in the ‘Mechlab. I felt more like I was riding one of my poor old Victors than a 70-tonner. That said, the height really isn’t a problem for me on the field. Everybody’s all like “OH NOES! The GRH is super crazy reconkulous massive, it’s got AWFUL GEOMETRY!” and I’m sitting here going “Dudes? Nova. The Nova has awful geometry.” The GRH is tall, but that height is all in the fact that it has long, gangly-ass legs that go up to its armpits. Those legs move around enough to be a bit tricky to get a proper bead on, and the ‘Mech’s actual torso area isn’t any worse than other heavies. It’s lanky and occupies a ton of visual space, but lanky isn’t the same as broad. Awesomes are broad. Novas are broad. Broad is awful. Lanky is not.

Overall Impression: My sojourn back into the land of the greasy infidels has actually been a lot of fun. I really like my Grasshoppers and am looking forward to doing more work with them. I also don’t really feel any weaker in a Grasshopper than I do in a Clan heavy, overall. More fragile, certainly – dat iXL – but insofar as the weapons balance everyone is screeching over so much? Not a big problem. Yeah, I’ve got a lot less range, but in the chaos of Puglandia at least that’s less of a problem, and once I do get into range I can unleash a volley of rabbit punches most of my Clan ‘Mechs could only dream of. The shorter burn time on the Spheroid beams is super noticeable and helps a lot. The iML could still stand to go back down to 3 heat, but at that point I’m pretty well convinced that balance will have been achieved between the iML and the cERML. It’d also give the iERML, when it comes out, a bit more room between the two to differentiate itself with, and also you guys really would have freaking ice beams to hit me with.

Yes, I fought Timber Wolves with my Grasshopper. That did not generally go well for me, no, but just as importantly it also didn’t go well for the guy in the TBR. Nobody is going to come out of being a TBR’s primary target unscathed, and nor should they, but most of the times I went up against the ‘All-Powerful Lord of Puglandia’, I managed to hit him nearly as hard as he hit me. Also encountered a couple of TBR pilots who were clearly out of their depth and managed to thoroughly mangle them. Spheroid lasers are better at sawing off components quickly than Clan beams, and somebody who’s not afraid of letting his armor do its job really can press hot-running Clan equipment in close and take it to pieces.

Bad pilots are bad pilots no matter what they’re riding, which was my biggest takeaway from this whole retrospective trip. A pilot who knows what he’s doing is going to be dangerous in either tech base, while no amount of #CLANZOP or #MOARQUIRKS will really save a newbie with no game experience, or a goober who refuses to learn. Everyone has good days and bad days, on both sides of the divide. All the forum whinery is – surprise surprise! – mostly just smoke. There are balance problems in the game and I’d love to see them addressed, but the playing field is a lot more level than either side is generally willing to admit.

I challenge all of you to try the same thing. If you’re an early Clan adopter who never really looked back, like me, go give your Spheroid garage some time in the limelight again – and no, don’t just use overquirked monstrosities, or build horrible hodgepodge FrankenMechs with eleven SHS and Ferro armor two tons shy of max just to prove a point. Run some of your old favorites, update them for the new era, see how they do. If you’re a staunch Spheroid pilot who’s never had the time of day for this newfangled balance-wreckin’ Clam Stuff…give it a shot. Snag a chassis or two, give it an honest run, and see whether it’s really as bad as all that. At the very least you’ll get a fresh taste of something different, and that’s a rare thing indeed in MWO.

And if you already switch between the two as your mood dictates and have no idea why I just spent three pages rambling about junk you already know…good on ya. Some of us are slower on the uptake, and besides. I was bored and I enjoy writing. Sue me :P

#2 cSand

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 01:38 PM

nice post. Some good points in there for those willing to listen..

GHR is one of my favourites...


that torso twist man, you can look right behind you on the Resistance model

Edited by cSand, 26 May 2015 - 01:39 PM.


#3 Burktross

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 01:43 PM

This was the most entertaining post I've read in a while.
Happy trails, OP.
(The Enforcer is not a thing, it's op.)

#4 CptGier

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 01:53 PM

Yeah, your 5th finding is what I find the most amusing about Clan vs IS.

IS get 3x DHS while clans get 2x, but CLan heat is way worse....beam time is way worse,...and Clans are the ones t hat are OP? ok lol...

CLans kinda suck in comparison to IS really.

CLans get 1-2 more dmg in each lasers, maybe more range, but quirks have closed that gap, but IS still get o keep thier advantages. But clans get long ass durations and hot ass heat for minimal more dmg...and considering the beam times, its really less damage over time.

#5 Xetelian

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 01:55 PM

It seems hard to classify the GHR as anything other than a taller QKD with better hitboxes.

#6 DAYLEET

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 02:10 PM

Good op post.

Being new to the game again, i faced the GRH many times in heat vision thinking it was a light farther away than it really was, i spent some good facetime staring with them. After 2 alpha they were not only still alive but not nearly as damage as supposed to be and realized it wasnt a light but a fkin heavy and i was in big trouble. Huge shape but it looks like a light, gota get used to it.

#7 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 02:11 PM

My only complaint with the Grasshopper and any other IS laser vomit build is the lack of range. It just can't poke well out past 500 m.

That is why I am really hoping the BK gets some boosts to range, especially on the MLs.

#8 1453 R

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 02:12 PM

View PostXetelian, on 26 May 2015 - 01:55 PM, said:

It seems hard to classify the GHR as anything other than a taller QKD with better hitboxes.


Yeah, but the single biggest problem with the QKD was the fact that it had awful hitboxes. Sans awful hitboxes - kinda like the Grasshopper, come to think of it - the Quickdraw would probably have been a lot better an option.

The Grasshopper is taller, yeah, but it's also, as I mentioned, a lot lankier and less prone to flub than the poor Quickdraw. Combined with better hardpoints for (ice) beam spam and having ten extra tons on the QKD, and one wonders why 'taller QKD with better hitboxes' is a bad thing, precisely?

As for Enforcers, I do know they're good and have tooled around in them a little bit, but they just don't have that same spark. Doesn't help that they do not even remotely look like Enforcers to me. This is one case where I'm not entirely sure I agree with Alex's art direction on the design. Hard to argue with their geometry and scaling, though.

#9 cSand

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 02:34 PM

View PostXetelian, on 26 May 2015 - 01:55 PM, said:

It seems hard to classify the GHR as anything other than a taller QKD with better hitboxes.



Well, the QKD has a bunch of missiles which is nice... I do wish one of the GHRs had more missile hardpoints.

QKD is still the king of mechs, IMO :D

View PostCptGier, on 26 May 2015 - 01:53 PM, said:

Yeah, your 5th finding is what I find the most amusing about Clan vs IS.

IS get 3x DHS while clans get 2x, but CLan heat is way worse....beam time is way worse,...and Clans are the ones t hat are OP? ok lol...

CLans kinda suck in comparison to IS really.

CLans get 1-2 more dmg in each lasers, maybe more range, but quirks have closed that gap, but IS still get o keep thier advantages. But clans get long ass durations and hot ass heat for minimal more dmg...and considering the beam times, its really less damage over time.


I agree, driving clans is like driving an oven. Yes the damage is nice but

I'll take my shorter range and cool runnins, mon. I would say neither are OP, and also that the recent nerfs while not that bad, probably were unnecessary. I woulda just slapped a 3 laser ghost heat on ERmediums and called it a day

Comes down to playstyle though... personally I prefer fast moving heavies that I can run in and take a quick stab and keep moving, I'll sacrifice overall firepower for extra armor and mobility. So for me the GHR, QKD, and DRG are a match made in mech-heaven. GHR and QKD especially because of the JJ's :D

Edited by cSand, 26 May 2015 - 02:47 PM.


#10 lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 03:19 PM

View PostGas Guzzler, on 26 May 2015 - 02:11 PM, said:

My only complaint with the Grasshopper and any other IS laser vomit build is the lack of range. It just can't poke well out past 500 m.

That is why I am really hoping the BK gets some boosts to range, especially on the MLs.


Unless you're talking about Community Warfare, IS laser vomit is extremely effective, and its range is fine, as most engagements and lines of fire are under 600m in TDM maps with the exception of Alpine. My Banshee, Firestarter, Cicada, and Blackjacks all do well after mastery on top of quirks and modules. If people are staying at that range, then there's too much peekaboo camping going on and then it's not a problem with the weapons, it's the tactics being used.

#11 CptGier

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 03:23 PM

View PostGas Guzzler, on 26 May 2015 - 02:11 PM, said:

My only complaint with the Grasshopper and any other IS laser vomit build is the lack of range. It just can't poke well out past 500 m.

That is why I am really hoping the BK gets some boosts to range, especially on the MLs.



Give your BK boosts to range, but give it increase to duration to, since thats why the Clans have higher duration....

#12 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 03:31 PM

View PostCptGier, on 26 May 2015 - 03:23 PM, said:



Give your BK boosts to range, but give it increase to duration to, since thats why the Clans have higher duration....


That would be the first instance of quirks coming at the cost of negative quirks. While I am open to the idea of that, PGI has not yet done so, and I'm not sure at what point it would need it. I am not saying a 30-40% boost to range that would bring medium lasers up to cER ML range, but instead of the 10%/10% to cooldown the Grasshopper got, would prefer a 10%/10% range buff on the Black Knight.

Also, Clan lasers also do more damage, so that also contributes to their longer duration.

The cER ML actually does more damage in 0.9 seconds than a ML does after its full burn time of 0.9 seconds.

View Post00ohDstruct, on 26 May 2015 - 03:19 PM, said:


Unless you're talking about Community Warfare, IS laser vomit is extremely effective, and its range is fine, as most engagements and lines of fire are under 600m in TDM maps with the exception of Alpine. My Banshee, Firestarter, Cicada, and Blackjacks all do well after mastery on top of quirks and modules. If people are staying at that range, then there's too much peekaboo camping going on and then it's not a problem with the weapons, it's the tactics being used.


Well I kind of am talking about community warfare, but even in pug drops if you are shooting someone at 400 m, your MLs are only doing 2/3 of their actual damage. Kind of a drag...

Just re-read... yeah at 600m the Grasshoppers MLs do nothing. c ERML does 4.56 damage at that range with the range module... that is almost as much damage as a IS ML within optimal range... which is my point.

While the entire match may not dwell at that range, its always nice to be able to reach out and hit back.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 26 May 2015 - 03:36 PM.


#13 cSand

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 03:43 PM

View PostGas Guzzler, on 26 May 2015 - 03:31 PM, said:


That would be the first instance of quirks coming at the cost of negative quirks. While I am open to the idea of that, PGI has not yet done so, and I'm not sure at what point it would need it. I am not saying a 30-40% boost to range that would bring medium lasers up to cER ML range, but instead of the 10%/10% to cooldown the Grasshopper got, would prefer a 10%/10% range buff on the Black Knight.

Also, Clan lasers also do more damage, so that also contributes to their longer duration.

The cER ML actually does more damage in 0.9 seconds than a ML does after its full burn time of 0.9 seconds.



Well I kind of am talking about community warfare, but even in pug drops if you are shooting someone at 400 m, your MLs are only doing 2/3 of their actual damage. Kind of a drag...

Just re-read... yeah at 600m the Grasshoppers MLs do nothing. c ERML does 4.56 damage at that range with the range module... that is almost as much damage as a IS ML within optimal range... which is my point.

While the entire match may not dwell at that range, its always nice to be able to reach out and hit back.


Well, if you want to do damage at longer range, equip longer ranged weapons! :lol:

#14 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 03:48 PM

View PostcSand, on 26 May 2015 - 03:43 PM, said:


Well, if you want to do damage at longer range, equip longer ranged weapons! :lol:


Please, show me the 1 ton long range varieties that can be fired 6 at a time with no ghost heat. I must be missing them. :unsure:

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 26 May 2015 - 03:49 PM.


#15 Zordicron

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 03:53 PM

I just want to say:

You should not be comparing clan ERML to IS ML. CERML are a lot closer to IS LL in heat and dmg and even range. Except CERML is 1 ton and an IS LL is 5. IS ML is a lot closer to a CERSL, range wise anyway. So when you say your hopper with 2 LPL and 4 ML is cooler than the same on a clammer, of course it is. Try 2ERLL and 4LL on that hopper, i bet the heat is pretty close then. Except it would also cost 30 tons then, compared to 16 tons for the clammer.

This is why I honestly do not like comparing clan and IS lasers, it is way to out of round with the numbers. One really needs to look at the weapon system as a whole on each side. unfortunatly, clammer AC's have horribad HSR so making a mixed loadout is pretty detrimental to reliable performance. There is no direct correlation to the two laser systems, because of tonnage differences. I mean a clan LPL is basically an IS ERLL. So then if we take the other two, a CERLL and an ISLPL, what comparison is there? Nothing. They are almost opposites in range and duration and tonnage.

The two sides in this game are just different beasts and need to be balanced within their own ranks, and then against some kind of performance standard that is not in relation to anything besides TTK in both offense and defense. Trying to mtch one mech to another on different sides is part of why we have this power creep nonsense. Bad HSR for certain things magnifies this also.

#16 Ultimax

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 03:54 PM

Pretty much spot on, except this.


View Post1453 R, on 26 May 2015 - 01:35 PM, said:

Fifth thing I noticed – MY GOD THESE LASERS DON’T EVEN HEAT BRO. So this is how you guys deal with those chubby-ass DHS – your lasers are, like, ice beams. It’d been so long since I’d run a beam-centric Sphere ‘Mech with appropriate heat sinkage (so not ERPPC Panthers) that I was completely unprepared for how cool-running Spheroid beams are compared to Clan energy. My GRH-5J[R] isn’t even all that extraneously heat-efficient compared to my typical Clan rides, but that didn’t really matter. Normally, two LPL and four ML would be a pretty ambitious energy loadout for my Clan rides, and definitely more focused on skirmishing alpha strikes around cover than on sustainable beam-brawling. There’s a reason most of my modern Clan designs don’t tend to use much more than four beams. The GRH needs to get a lot closer, but once it got there I felt like I could clamp down on the triggers for weeks on end and not worry. I don’t even know why.



Here is your build: GRH-5J

Here is a build that competes directly in that range bracket, with similar beam times (average), overall alpha potential, DPS, etc.

HBR-WUBS



When people stop looking at the names of the weapons, and being fooled by them and instead start comparing only ranges, damage and heat - then they will stop thinking that clan builds are "too hot".


If the Summoner had like one more Energy hardpoint - I would have built it on that.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 26 May 2015 - 03:56 PM.


#17 CptGier

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 03:55 PM

View PostcSand, on 26 May 2015 - 02:34 PM, said:

I agree, driving clans is like driving an oven. Yes the damage is nice but

I'll take my shorter range and cool runnins, mon. I would say neither are OP, and also that the recent nerfs while not that bad, probably were unnecessary. I woulda just slapped a 3 laser ghost heat on ERmediums and called it a day

Comes down to playstyle though... personally I prefer fast moving heavies that I can run in and take a quick stab and keep moving, I'll sacrifice overall firepower for extra armor and mobility. So for me the GHR, QKD, and DRG are a match made in mech-heaven. GHR and QKD especially because of the JJ's :D


Damage isnt that nice when the beam time is so long your mech gets plastered a fair bit more then it should cuz your holding a beam on target, or your twisting away to avoid damage, essentially making your damage less then the IS......if hte target is moving at all its less then a Machinegun it seems....

I to prefer mechs with maxed armor, punchy guns and a fair bit of speed.. Part of why the Warhawk actually fits my play style, but between getting put on t he sides that do nothing...most games end in 3-12 or less, and hit reg or w/e.....I never seem to do much, avg dmg is 392 atm...sadly.

Edited by CptGier, 26 May 2015 - 03:56 PM.


#18 cSand

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 03:57 PM

View PostGas Guzzler, on 26 May 2015 - 03:48 PM, said:


Please, show me the 1 ton long range varieties that can be fired 6 at a time with no ghost heat. I must be missing them. :unsure:


Well, eventually the IS is supposed to get their version of the ER Medium

as it stands right now... if you want that, go with clams!

They may not have ghost heat but they are hot as balls anyways... that alpha will shut em down in no time at all. Meanwhile you can waltz up and AC20 those lasers right off the smug little test tube faces :D

Anyways, if you're in range of the clan ER medium, that means they are in range of some equally dealy IS weapons

View PostCptGier, on 26 May 2015 - 03:55 PM, said:


Damage isnt that nice when the beam time is so long your mech gets plastered a fair bit more then it should cuz your holding a beam on target, or your twisting away to avoid damage, essentially making your damage less then the IS......if hte target is moving at all its less then a Machinegun it seems....


To be fair the ER medium isn't really the brawling weapon so you should have an easier time tracking the target from further out.

If you're getting in a knife fight I'd think ERsmalls will suit you better


There is something to be said now for certain chassis carrying a varied loudout and not just boating 1 weapon. Which IMO is a good thing

#19 CptGier

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 03:59 PM

View PostcSand, on 26 May 2015 - 03:57 PM, said:


Well, eventually the IS is supposed to get their version of the ER Medium

as it stands right now... if you want that, go with clams!

They may not have ghost heat but they are hot as balls anyways... that alpha will shut em down in no time at all. Meanwhile you can waltz up and AC20 those lasers right off the smug little test tube faces :D

Anyways, if you're in range of the clan ER medium, that means they are in range of some equally dealy IS weapons



To be fair the ER medium isn't really the brawling weapon so you should have an easier time tracking the target from further out.

If you're getting in a knife fight I'd think ERsmalls will suit you better


There is something to be said now for certain chassis carrying a varied loudout and not just boating 1 weapon. Which IMO is a good thing



I dont like ERMLs much, they dont seem to do much damage, ive unloaded 4 of them into mechs and nothing. My SCR runs 4x MPL. My Warhawk runs 4x LPL. Smalls have to little range...165m? yikes.

Is MWO hit reg that bad? Ive plastered mechs with volley after volley and even in stripped spots......ugh. poor hit reg in a shooter game kills it for me. My aim has become pretty good enough....but even then....

Edited by CptGier, 26 May 2015 - 04:00 PM.


#20 cSand

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 04:01 PM

View PostCptGier, on 26 May 2015 - 03:59 PM, said:


I dont like ERMLs much, they dont seem to do much damage, ive unloaded 4 of them into mechs and nothing. My SCR runs 4x MPL. My Warhawk runs 4x LPL. Smalls have to little range...165m? yikes.


I can't comment on hitreg cause mine always seem to do some damage as long as I track it, but they are more easily rolled away on the TBR and SCR now.

I hear ya though they are not my bag either. Gimme my green beams any day of the week :D

Edited by cSand, 26 May 2015 - 04:01 PM.






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