47 replies to this topic

[Andi Nagasia]

i decided instead of having the E-PPC do 12PP Damage(20% more than the PPC),
ive decreased the E-PPCs Cool-down until the DPS is 20% higher instead,
(this is Possible as their are no Truly Defined E-PPC Weapon Stats)

[LordKnightFandragon]

Why do we need an additional PPC at all? TO give the CLans a PPC alt? if the CERPPC was done right it would just be superior to the PPC and ERPPC in basically every way, outside of maybe charge time and heat output.

[Hornviech]

Andi Nagasia, on 27 May 2015 - 06:19 PM, said:

=Clan Enhanced Particle Projector Cannon=
Produced by Clan Wolverine(the Not-Named-Clan) alongside the E-ER-PPC 2832,
the E-PPC was nearly identical to the PPC but with a 20% higher Damage threshold,
this Advantage of course came with 2 side Effects, Much Less Range and Velocity,
seen as a weak weapon Vs the E-ER-PPC, so E-PPC development stopped,

=C-E-PPC=
Weapon,.....Damage,..Heat,..Speed,.Cool-down,..Range,..Max Range,..DPS,..Tons,..Crits,
C-E-PPC,........10..........10.......680.........3.3.........90-460........920...........3.0........5.......3...
(instead of a 12Damage E-PPC, ive decrease the cool-down to increase DPS by 20%)

=Clan PPCs=
C-ER-PPC,..10(2.5x2)..15......1200........4.0...........810...........1620......2.5(3.75)..6.......2...
=IS PPCs=
PPC,...............10..........10......1100........4.0.........90-540........1080..........2.5.......7.......3...
ER-PPC,.........10..........15......1200........4.0...........810...........1620..........2.5.......7.......3...

Thoughts, Comments Concerns?
Thanks,

Edit- Stats Changed as per PPC Buff,
Edit2- Stats Changed as per Balance,

Just make the Clan ER-PPC damage like it used to be, 15dmg PP not this spreaddamage.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Well, on t his CERPPC topic. For the last few days I have been running my 4x CERPPC Warhawk. Mastered, Radar Derp, Lv5 CD and Range mod for CERPPC, and my last several battles since this patch, they have been performing insanely well. Where as before I could fire and fire and fire and fire and fire the PPC into my targets, see them hit, see the flash, but nothing would happen.

Perhaps that is all our angst over wanting higher dmg PPCs. But, actually, I am becoming convinced, as I kinda was suspecting before, that working hit reg was to blame and not the PPC themselves. Where as before all my hundreds of shots would be lucky if i netted 350-400 dmg and no kills, usually a death because the guns wouldnt kill anything, its turned 10 fold, im droppin' bodies left and right. Ive gone from about 10 in the hole, my KDR, before this patch was sitting at a pathetic 109/110, and I had to really work it to get it up there, it was far worse, is now sitting at 126/112. Warhawk is sitting at 68/41, up from when I used to use CERPPC, it was at like 10/29...

So, perhaps, with the fixing of the HIt reg, the CERPPC trend can die? Perhaps all you lucky enough to have had your hit reg working before really were right. PPC are fine at 10 dmg, the issue was the game's hit reg programing. Its fixed and just wow, I cannot say how much it has improved. This game is almost becoming atleast mildly entertaining to play.

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 10 July 2015 - 08:55 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

@LordKnightFandragon,
Yup, HitReg seemed to Fix many of the PPCs problems,
but i would still like our C-E-PPC(C-Snub-Nose-PPC),

i think it would give us a more Brawl oriented PPC,
Close to Medium Range, Less Heat Less Bite but an Option none the less,
a good Substitute for Lighter Mechs that Dont have the Tons or Room for lots of DHS,

[LordKnightFandragon]

Andi Nagasia, on 10 July 2015 - 09:11 PM, said:

@LordKnightFandragon,
Yup, HitReg seemed to Fix many of the PPCs problems,
but i would still like our C-E-PPC(C-Snub-Nose-PPC),

i think it would give us a more Brawl oriented PPC,
Close to Medium Range, Less Heat Less Bite but an Option none the less,
a good Substitute for Lighter Mechs that Dont have the Tons or Room for lots of DHS,

YIkes, IS snubnose is kinda crap. 6s, 2c, 10/8/5<S/M/L range damage im assuming? its as big and heavy as a CERPPC but worse....yikes.

[Satan n stuff]

You can have your snubnose PPC if I can have my PPC capacitor.

[Joseph Mallan]

Andi Nagasia, on 27 May 2015 - 06:19 PM, said:

=Clan Enhanced Particle Projector Cannon=
Produced by Clan Wolverine(the Not-Named-Clan) alongside the E-ER-PPC 2832,
the E-PPC was nearly identical to the PPC but with a 20% higher Damage threshold,
this Advantage of course came with 2 side Effects, Much Less Range and Velocity,
seen as a weak weapon Vs the E-ER-PPC, so E-PPC development stopped,

This Weapon Works as a Clan-Tech Snub-Nose-PPC, having similar use and Stats,
however it weighs 1Ton Less, and takes up 1Crit more than the Snub-Nose-PPC,

=C-E-PPC=
Weapon,.....Damage,..Heat,..Speed,.Cool-down,..Range,..Max Range,..DPS,..Tons,..Crits,
C-E-PPC,........10..........10.......680........3.3...........460............920...........3.0........5.......3...
(instead of a 12Damage E-PPC, ive decrease the cool-down to increase DPS by 20%)

=Clan PPCs=
C-ER-PPC,..10(2.5x2)..15......1200........4.0...........810...........1620......2.5(3.75)..6.......2...
=IS PPCs=
PPC,...............10..........10......1100........4.0.........90-540........1080..........2.5.......7.......3...
ER-PPC,.........10..........15......1200........4.0...........810...........1620..........2.5.......7.......3...

Thoughts, Comments Concerns?
Thanks,

Edit- Rework(PPC Buff),
Edit2- Stats reworked some,
Edit3- Snub-Nose-Notation,

With the words MUCH LESS VELOCITY the EPPC sounds like my (F)Atlas could dodge the shot.

Quote

seen as a weak weapon

This would also have the player community whining to no end to balance it with other PPCs.

Its weaker(than ER) and slower than other (ER)PPCs. So why take it???

[LORD ORION]

Dunno why anyone would ever use CERPC when the CLPL does 13 damage to 660 range (with module)

It nees to do 15 to the area hit or its mostly a waste of time when you can run Gauss + CLPL in the same role.

[Nightshade24]

LordKnightFandragon, on 28 May 2015 - 09:21 AM, said:

No new PPCs needed, just buff the current ones. All a new gun would do is add an entirely new dimension to the CF that is MWO weapon balancing.

But there is a problem...

Clan ER PPC's due to being smaller and lighter to IS thus forces the fact there is NO quirks for these things to the same scale as IS mechs... compare the warhawk to the awesome.... adder to the panther... summoner/ hellbringer to the thunderbolt/ quickdraw....

Due to the quirk difference, in many cases Clan ER PPC's are worse then IS ER and standard ppc's.

(Cicada has a 50% velocity quirk for eg, this is much greater then the targeting computer 7's velocity bonus and theoretically you would need a targeting computer "16" to match the velocity... 16 tons and slots of computer just to make a clan ER PPC perform the same as a ER PPC on a 40 tonner?)

However IS vs Clan sin't the only problem of ballance for the C ER PPC, another problem is the fact that the clan tech (which BT does "vaguely' ballance in TT) ballanced the clan ER PPC to the large pulse laser with the fact the clan er ppc has more range and higher damage at all ranges (15), in MW: O we nerfed the damage to 10 which is less damage then a large pulse laser (and 2.5 damage to each boardering component. hit an arm, leg, or head, it's only 1 x 2.5 damage going throw, if the mech is a walking ct, or is already legged, or you are firing at a static structure (turret, generator, etc) you got no extra damage upon the 10 pinpoint damage.

Thus making the clan large pulse laser superior up until 680 meters where it damage is already dropping till it matches the 10 damage approximately.

The best way to buff the clan ER PPC would be to give it more then 12 damage pinpoint.

ie 13 damage pinpoint then +1 +1. Another change would be to decrease it's damage fall at range as before hte higher damage would have made it still do a punch at range, what would have been 11 damage at range with ER PPC above normal range is in MW: O 7-ish damage and microscopic splash.
I have suggested that some clan mechs should have quirks to pinch away at the nerfs for the tech. for instance a mech like the adder could have true 15 point damage er ppc's or the warhawk gets 14 damage er ppcs with +0.5 x 2's. While timberwolf is still stuck at 10 + 2.5 x2. (wouldn't mind the D variant getting a range quirk though)

Or an ice ferret having a smaller cluster of missile distance between first and last missile and the damage drop from under 180 meters is dropped a lot.


The clan one would require serious buffs. Which would leave a void so to say...

The Enhanced Clan ER PPC (one suggested in this thread) would be the Clan equivilant of the PPC kinda...

Does 12 damage, same heat, but size and weight of it is different. Would help clan mechs of all weight classes, support non meta builds, and provides an alternative to the ER PPC, would be cool if the Clan E ER PPC is basicly the sturdy 12 damage ppc through the series while the ER PPC varies from 10 + splash to 15 depending on mech. So it creates a dynamic sense of weapons through mechs with different trade offs and stuff.

Also this is the easiest and kinda important weapon to add considering the other options are...

Long tom artillery (30 slots, 30 tons... barely any assault mech will able to use it with extreme crit splitting involved....)
Long Tom Cannon (15 slots, 15 tons, still involves crit spltiting more more realistic.)
Arrow (15 slots (Clan 12), this time around it can fit on mechs in game... only clan battlemechs though with standard engines... otherwise crit splitting again)
Morters ( possible, but has ballancing problems. Such as how the velocity will work, aimming, direct vs indirect fire, ammo types, and how to ballance between clan and IS. ... clan basicly got half weight and half sized mortars and they are made to fire in volleys like current clan AC's, making the IS one pinpoint can make that more OP while having both volley fire the same makes clans the superior one...)
1 shot missiles (very low ammo... literally enough to make 1 shot... might as well add rockets)
Rockets (better... but can be OP or UP... Stalker doing a 100 damage alpha and then left with 3 large pulse lasers and a pair of mediums for post 1 shot kill game. COuld be Op, but could be UP ie velocity and accuracy is so bad it's not worth wasting the weapon slot for it.)

And much more...

[Nightshade24]

Deathlike, on 28 May 2015 - 10:01 AM, said:

I don't even bother using that combo. It's too short rangy and brawly in all the wrong ways.

ERPPCs should not primarily be mid-range weapons.

But it is primarily a mid to mid long ranged weapon... in TT not all 'snipers' can shoot beyond 600 meters... AC 5 and PPC have very good overlap in range of effectiveness and it's no surprise it works well in MW: O, AC 10 with PPC also works to as the AC 10 catches the lower half of the range and velocity..

No surprises here.

[Nightshade24]

LordKnightFandragon, on 09 July 2015 - 10:29 PM, said:

I can fully see the reasoning behind not putting them at 15/15. They kinda would be a little OP in that form. GRs were already given charge cuz they were OP w.o charge. 2000ms, 1 heat, 15 dmg.

I get PPC are 15h, much less velocity and are hot. BUt I do think even that aside, it would still be OP.

But I would love to see them get a damage boost and lose the split.

GR wasn't op and recieved the nerf due to it. It was to try to desync the Gauss + 2 PPC meta as both weapons had similar damage, range, and velocity. The charge mechanic would be a bigger ballance if given to the gauss rather then ppc, so that's what happens.

Clan ER PPC's are already a joke in game.

IS PPC's competes strongly with clan Large pulse lasers as it does pinpoint damage, similar or less heat, or simular or more range, and have nearly equal velocity sometimes to the quirked mechs... Making it very strong.
IS ER PPC does same damage and heat as Clan one. But for quirked mechs it has nearly 300 meters more range then the clan one and have higher velocity and less heat.

15 damage ER PPC will not be that OP when the IS already have ER PPC/ PPC's firing 25% more often, or 50% more velocity, or have much less heat.

In a way it would be a fair trade and be a indirect buff to clan er ppc range.

However I would like to see this change in the form of quirks...

Adder = 15 true ER PPC damage
Warhawk 14 er ppc damage, 0.5 splash
Timberwolf D = 12 er ppc damage (omnipod set bonus+)

Etc...


Best way to ballance the clan mechs due to the fact endo steel, ferro, engines, jumpjets, heatsinks, etc are hardwired. this will easily help the alt.configs. that are in the shadow of others (timberwolf D to the Timberwolf S, Prime, C, and A, SUmmoner prime to the Summoner D, C, B, etc). or help mechs that flat out can't compete with the others (nova, adder, kitfox, warhawk, gargoyle, etc).

WEll just an example with the er ppc eg... can think of simular quirks for clan LRM's... ac's... etc.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Nightshade24, on 11 July 2015 - 06:30 AM, said:

snip

The biggest issue with PPCs its they're just wholesale inferior to lasers on a damage/heat/tonnage/crit basis.

The best PPC quirks are on the AWS-8Q. It's PPCs are 10 damage, 7.5 heat, 675m range, and moving 1375m/s. It weighs 7 tons and eats up 3 crits.

The best IS LPL quirks are on the TDR-9SE. It's LPLs are 11 damage, 5.6 heat, 438m range, hitscan, and has a beam duration of 0.59 secs. It eats up the same weight of 7 tons, but only eats 2 crits on normally crit starved IS mechs.


The cLPL is at 6 tons, 2 crits, reaches out to 600m for 13 damage, 10 heat, with a beam duration of 1.12s.

The cERPPC sits at the same tonnage and crits, reaches out to 810m but it only deals 10 damage for 15 heat and moves 1250m/s.


Lasers are just flat out superior. What matters in fights is how efficiently you can convert heat to damage. While laser damage isn't as efficient, it's heat to efficient damage is still vastly superior.

Hell, the IS LL in TT deals 8 damage for 8 heat. In MWO it deals 9 damage for 7 heat.

The cLPL in TT is a 10 for 10 weapon, but in MWO it's 13 for 10.

Tldr: all large class lasers need toning down.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Nightshade24, on 11 July 2015 - 07:19 AM, said:

GR wasn't op and recieved the nerf due to it. It was to try to desync the Gauss + 2 PPC meta as both weapons had similar damage, range, and velocity. The charge mechanic would be a bigger ballance if given to the gauss rather then ppc, so that's what happens.

Clan ER PPC's are already a joke in game.

IS PPC's competes strongly with clan Large pulse lasers as it does pinpoint damage, similar or less heat, or simular or more range, and have nearly equal velocity sometimes to the quirked mechs... Making it very strong.
IS ER PPC does same damage and heat as Clan one. But for quirked mechs it has nearly 300 meters more range then the clan one and have higher velocity and less heat.

15 damage ER PPC will not be that OP when the IS already have ER PPC/ PPC's firing 25% more often, or 50% more velocity, or have much less heat.

In a way it would be a fair trade and be a indirect buff to clan er ppc range.

However I would like to see this change in the form of quirks...

Adder = 15 true ER PPC damage
Warhawk 14 er ppc damage, 0.5 splash
Timberwolf D = 12 er ppc damage (omnipod set bonus+)

Etc...


Best way to ballance the clan mechs due to the fact endo steel, ferro, engines, jumpjets, heatsinks, etc are hardwired. this will easily help the alt.configs. that are in the shadow of others (timberwolf D to the Timberwolf S, Prime, C, and A, SUmmoner prime to the Summoner D, C, B, etc). or help mechs that flat out can't compete with the others (nova, adder, kitfox, warhawk, gargoyle, etc).

WEll just an example with the er ppc eg... can think of simular quirks for clan LRM's... ac's... etc.

We would have much better luck getting maybe 12 or 13 dmg w/o the split. I did some basic testing of the damage ranges on TG mechs.

10 dmg is like 12 shots on the TG AWS
12 dmg was I think 10
13 was like 9
15 was 7 or something.

So, even just 12 dmg would give us a nice boost in shots to kill. Really, that is all thats needed most times, 1 less shot to kill and you woulda gotten the kill. Lose the spread.....it messes with hit reg im sure.

I put together an AS7S with 2 ERPPC..I just dont dare take it into battle...

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 11 July 2015 - 11:03 AM.

[Omi_]

From a lore perspective, isn't the Enhanced ER PPC considered to be extinct in the timeline?

[Andi Nagasia]

Hornsby, on 11 July 2015 - 01:38 PM, said:

From a lore perspective, isn't the Enhanced ER PPC considered to be extinct in the timeline?

well yes and no,
no as the E-ER-PPC is a Research Stepping Stone between the (IS)ER-PPC and the (Clan)C-ER-PPC,
and yes its Technically Extinct as it has been Completely replaced by the End Product the C-ER-PPC,

[Andi Nagasia]

LordKnightFandragon, on 10 July 2015 - 09:31 PM, said:

YIkes, IS snubnose is kinda crap. 6s, 2c, 10/8/5<S/M/L range damage im assuming? its as big and heavy as a CERPPC but worse....yikes.

well Lesser Range at Farther Ranges is already in MWO so theirs no real Problem there,
it actually weights 1 less Ton and takes up 1 Less Crit than normal IS-PPCs,

=IS PPCs=
Weapon,.........Damage,..Heat,..Speed,.Cool-down,..Range,..Max Range,..DPS,..Tons,..Crits,
PPC,...................10..........10......1100........4.0.........90-540........1080..........2.5.......7.......3...
ER-PPC,.............10..........15......1200........4.0...........810...........1620..........2.5.......7.......3...
Snub-Nose-PPC,10..........10........680........4.0...........460............920...........2.5.......6.......2...
so when IS does get their Snub-Nose-PPCs they will have a Place for lighter Mechs,

[LordKnightFandragon]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 11 July 2015 - 07:46 AM, said:

The biggest issue with PPCs its they're just wholesale inferior to lasers on a damage/heat/tonnage/crit basis.

They didnt use to be.....but everyone went on a Lasers are UP kick so we got lasers buffed to where they are now.

PPCs normally are a good trade vs lasers in heat to dmg.

ISERs, slightly less so. THey do give the IS the 0m min range, but for 5 more heat, ...idk if its worth it. But CER.....that thing is down right amazing, though tricky to use. 15 heat hurts.

[DasSibby]

Honestly I'd love to see new weapons in general. Like the Blazer, Mech Cannons, and MRMs.

More weapons=more diversity. More Diversity=more playstyles. More playstyles=more fun!

Let it begin!

[LordKnightFandragon]

DasSibby, on 11 July 2015 - 08:56 PM, said:

Honestly I'd love to see new weapons in general. Like the Blazer, Mech Cannons, and MRMs.

More weapons=more diversity. More Diversity=more playstyles. More playstyles=more fun!

Let it begin!

More weapons=more QQ, more QQ=more nerfs, more nerfs=more meta, more meta=more the same ***** builds.

We already have several weapons and of those only a few are used, same with mechs. We have numerous mechs but only a select few are used.