47 replies to this topic

[Drasari]

I like the idea of new weapons but I also feel the ones we have now need some work first, before we bring more into the game.

[Nightshade24]

Hornsby, on 11 July 2015 - 01:38 PM, said:

From a lore perspective, isn't the Enhanced ER PPC considered to be extinct in the timeline?

Andi Nagasia, on 11 July 2015 - 05:03 PM, said:

well yes and no,
no as the E-ER-PPC is a Research Stepping Stone between the (IS)ER-PPC and the (Clan)C-ER-PPC,
and yes its Technically Extinct as it has been Completely replaced by the End Product the C-ER-PPC,

Ahem...

It is as extinct as having the king crab in game, or as rare as having the EBJ in game, or the Timberwolf, kitfox, direwolf, S variants.


It's just not used in the battlefield often and the productions for it isn't that high.

It has seen some action between the annihilation of clan wolverine and the clan invasion however in snow raven hands. Also saw action again in the jihad era.

Either way, this weapon would have been used as a training weapon I would imagine. Much like how the chemical lasers (fyi, this is very old tech stuff... like so old that it's basicly irl modern grade weapons I think in BT verse) are used by clans for cheap training.

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 11 July 2015 - 07:46 AM, said:

The biggest issue with PPCs its they're just wholesale inferior to lasers on a damage/heat/tonnage/crit basis. The best PPC quirks are on the AWS-8Q. It's PPCs are 10 damage, 7.5 heat, 675m range, and moving 1375m/s. It weighs 7 tons and eats up 3 crits. The best IS LPL quirks are on the TDR-9SE. It's LPLs are 11 damage, 5.6 heat, 438m range, hitscan, and has a beam duration of 0.59 secs. It eats up the same weight of 7 tons, but only eats 2 crits on normally crit starved IS mechs. The cLPL is at 6 tons, 2 crits, reaches out to 600m for 13 damage, 10 heat, with a beam duration of 1.12s. The cERPPC sits at the same tonnage and crits, reaches out to 810m but it only deals 10 damage for 15 heat and moves 1250m/s. Lasers are just flat out superior. What matters in fights is how efficiently you can convert heat to damage. While laser damage isn't as efficient, it's heat to efficient damage is still vastly superior. Hell, the IS LL in TT deals 8 damage for 8 heat. In MWO it deals 9 damage for 7 heat. The cLPL in TT is a 10 for 10 weapon, but in MWO it's 13 for 10. Tldr: all large class lasers need toning down.

Wow, I never knew (well checked...) that these lasers did more damage then TT and stuff... I would like to see it lowered... they kinda over shadow both IS and Clan mechs....

But I have a question... with the logic used above... wouldn't that make the Machine gun seem like a gods weapon? one of the highest DPS per ton ratio as well as damage to heat ratio and also is the lightest weapon in game and stuff...

I do not know, I just brought that up because I like using machine guns. just ignore me.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Nightshade24, on 12 July 2015 - 02:52 AM, said:

Ahem...

It is as extinct as having the king crab in game, or as rare as having the EBJ in game, or the Timberwolf, kitfox, direwolf, S variants.


It's just not used in the battlefield often and the productions for it isn't that high.

It has seen some action between the annihilation of clan wolverine and the clan invasion however in snow raven hands. Also saw action again in the jihad era.

Either way, this weapon would have been used as a training weapon I would imagine. Much like how the chemical lasers (fyi, this is very old tech stuff... like so old that it's basicly irl modern grade weapons I think in BT verse) are used by clans for cheap training.



Wow, I never knew (well checked...) that these lasers did more damage then TT and stuff... I would like to see it lowered... they kinda over shadow both IS and Clan mechs....

But I have a question... with the logic used above... wouldn't that make the Machine gun seem like a gods weapon? one of the highest DPS per ton ratio as well as damage to heat ratio and also is the lightest weapon in game and stuff...

I do not know, I just brought that up because I like using machine guns. just ignore me.

Nightshade24, on 12 July 2015 - 02:52 AM, said:

Ahem...

It is as extinct as having the king crab in game, or as rare as having the EBJ in game, or the Timberwolf, kitfox, direwolf, S variants.


It's just not used in the battlefield often and the productions for it isn't that high.

It has seen some action between the annihilation of clan wolverine and the clan invasion however in snow raven hands. Also saw action again in the jihad era.

Either way, this weapon would have been used as a training weapon I would imagine. Much like how the chemical lasers (fyi, this is very old tech stuff... like so old that it's basicly irl modern grade weapons I think in BT verse) are used by clans for cheap training.



Wow, I never knew (well checked...) that these lasers did more damage then TT and stuff... I would like to see it lowered... they kinda over shadow both IS and Clan mechs....

But I have a question... with the logic used above... wouldn't that make the Machine gun seem like a gods weapon? one of the highest DPS per ton ratio as well as damage to heat ratio and also is the lightest weapon in game and stuff...

I do not know, I just brought that up because I like using machine guns. just ignore me.

MGs aren't as efficient as ERSLs or IS SLs because you need the DPS of one IS MG plus half ton of ammo is only 0.8 DPS for a single ton, while a pair of IS SLs have a DPS of 2.0. Clan MGs are better off because you can have 2 MGs and a half ton of ammo for a DPS of 1.6. But they compete with the ERSL where a pair of them has a DPS of 3.08.

What makes the Nova with 12 ERSLs and 4 MGs so scary in a knife fight is those 12 ERSLs hit for 30 damage each fist then the MGs are 3.2 heat less DPS while the ERSLs are cooling off from firing.

The Achilles heel to the MG is it has a COF so it's hard to focus that damage on a single component unless you're hugging your target, which is why you usually don't see them on anything heavier than a Nova very often.

Your logic is correct.

Energy weapons have a great Damage/Ton ratio, but a terrible Heat/Ton ratio.

While ballistics have a terrible Damage/Ton ratio, but an excellent Heat/Ton ratio.

That's why outside of lighter mechs and quirk monsters, the strongest builds in the game are centered around one or two medium to big ballistics with a smattering of energy weapons.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Its funny how you bring up the E-ERPPC Andi and try and sell it has having lower velocity and shorter range with 20% more damage, and you even put in a link to the wiki for the weapon while saying that bs.

The E-ERPPC is the exact same weapon as the ERPPC only it does 20% more damage. Same tonnage, same size, same heat, same range, 20% more damage.

It is one of the MANY new toys created by Catalyst Labs, this one in 2008, and retconned into the lore, even though the fact that it wasn't USED or SEEN until after they added it in 2008 was simply hand waved away 'it was created in 2823 by Wolverine and not used again for almost 300 years because..uh...look, NEW BOOK!'

Do you actually READ the stuff on the wiki or do you literally stop the moment you see 'more damage' and stop there?

[LordKnightFandragon]

I still just say, buff CERPPC Dmg to 12 or 13, increase CD to like 4.25s
Decrease IS ERPPC heat to 12 or 13 and decrease their CD to like 3.85s. Then, remove or nerf a number of the IS ERPPC quirks pertaining to heat/CD.

Cuz while sure, PPC are PPD, they are still out gunned badly by laser vomit. 10PPD for 15heat vs like 30dmg for like 24 heat.......plus PPC get ALOT of ghost heat, so even on a WHK, rapidly chain firing as shut me down on just chain firing 4 ERPPC due to GH....

Also, PPC/ER/CER PPC Ghost heat, reduce it back to like 4 maybe. Idk, but rapidly chain firing should not incur a GH penalty....meanwhile just dual firing does not....

PPC you chain or dual fire, Lasers get rapidly quad fired for far more dmg and less heat......range is irrelevant, the game does not play outside most laser ranges for 95% of it.

[Nightshade24]

Kristov Kerensky, on 12 July 2015 - 10:23 AM, said:

Its funny how you bring up the E-ERPPC Andi and try and sell it has having lower velocity and shorter range with 20% more damage, and you even put in a link to the wiki for the weapon while saying that bs.

The E-ERPPC is the exact same weapon as the ERPPC only it does 20% more damage. Same tonnage, same size, same heat, same range, 20% more damage.

It is one of the MANY new toys created by Catalyst Labs, this one in 2008, and retconned into the lore, even though the fact that it wasn't USED or SEEN until after they added it in 2008 was simply hand waved away 'it was created in 2823 by Wolverine and not used again for almost 300 years because..uh...look, NEW BOOK!'

Do you actually READ the stuff on the wiki or do you literally stop the moment you see 'more damage' and stop there?

You have mistaken him between saying the exact details and how to BALANCE it into the game.


That was his idea on how it should be in game compared to other weapons and you forget that this game stats are not identical...

Large lasers and large pulse lasers do more damage then in TT.
SSRM's and SRM's do more damage then they do in TT.
C ER PPC does splash damage resulting in a not perfect 50% increase
IS and Clan LRM's have different firing styles.

Etc.

It was his personal idea that E ER PPC should have a lower velocity but higher pinpoint damage. It isn't sarnas, it isn't PGI's, it's his idea.
And personally I like the idea, However I would prefer it to have a bit more velocity, making it something like half way between er ppc and ppc in velocity.

[Andi Nagasia]

Nightshade24, on 12 July 2015 - 02:55 PM, said:

You have mistaken him between saying the exact details and how to BALANCE it into the game.

That was his idea on how it should be in game compared to other weapons and you forget that this game stats are not identical...

Large lasers and large pulse lasers do more damage then in TT.
SSRM's and SRM's do more damage then they do in TT.
C ER PPC does splash damage resulting in a not perfect 50% increase
IS and Clan LRM's have different firing styles.

Etc.

It was his personal idea that E ER PPC should have a lower velocity but higher pinpoint damage. It isn't sarnas, it isn't PGI's, it's his idea.
And personally I like the idea, However I would prefer it to have a bit more velocity, making it something like half way between er ppc and ppc in velocity.

actually im referencing the E-PPC which is like a Clan Snub-Nose-PPC, not the E-ER-PPC,
i gave the Link to the E-ER-PPC as the E-PPC is of Similar Development from Clan Wolverine,

as far as i have found their is only 1 Paragraph detailing the E-PPCs Use,
and that it works much like the Snub-Nose-PPC but Lighter(-1Ton) & more Bulky(+1Crit),
its Development stopped but it was Said to Still be in use, their are no Stats for the E-PPC,
so those Stats you see ive created my self to give Clan Another PPC Option,
Edit- Spelling

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 12 July 2015 - 07:28 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

Satan n stuff, on 11 July 2015 - 02:13 AM, said:

You can have your snubnose PPC if I can have my PPC capacitor.

Soon, but thats 3060 Tech, so you may have to Wait awail,
(New Weapons Coming In 3060! How Should They Work? Discussion!)
but you can look at my 3060 Weapons Stats Mockup,