24 replies to this topic

[Audacious Aubergine]

Do hand actuators actually do anything other than add an aesthetic component to a mech? By relation, should I get rid of them on clan mechs in exchange for an extra crit slot?

[The Great Unwashed]

Only for fun

[Mad Ox]

I seem to remember it does affect your arm Yaw and Pitch not by alot but should give you a little more movement. Someone will have to verify this not sure what current game is doing.

Otherwise if you have stuff in arm its one other slot that can get crit in comparison to something of value like laser or gun etc.

[Lugh]

They are important for more range of movement especially getting shots high above your head or below your torso.

[Night Thastus]

Hand actuators do NOT affect movement in any way. Lower arm and upper arm actuators certainly do, but the only real use for hand actuators is melee, which this game will never have.

However, hand actuators DO have a hitbox. An arm with a hand actuator has a bigger profile than one without it, thus making it good for shielding, as you see on many clan mech designs.

Also, as it is not added by the user, it cannot be critically hit. Same with the upper arm actuators, gyros, life support, etc. In the boardgame, they could be hit, but in here, they are static.

Jeebus I hate misinformation. Same thing with the "Pinpoint" skill. Some people actually believe that still does something.

Edited by Night Thastus, 29 May 2015 - 07:38 AM.

[o0Marduk0o]

FreebirthToad18999, on 29 May 2015 - 06:18 AM, said:

Do hand actuators actually do anything other than add an aesthetic component to a mech?

Useful to touch the mech in front of you.

Lugh, on 29 May 2015 - 07:24 AM, said:

They are important for more range of movement especially getting shots high above your head or below your torso.

No, those are lower arm actuators and they have nothing to do with aiming up and down. Lower arm actuators increase the horizontal angle of arm movement.

1. no lower arm actuators = arm and torso horizontal movement radius is the same
2. actuators in only one arm give half the movement range than actuators in both arms
3. it is not important in which arm the actuators are placed, when using only one lower arm actuator

[Mad Porthos]

To some degree those hand actuators are a relic of the table top game, in that when translating the designs to MWO, they as much as possible tried to remain faithful to the equipment and layouts as they had existed in the original game. In the case of mechs which had large ballistics, often the hand actuators had to be removed if they were going to fit the slots in one location. Some optional rules let you split crit slots to multiple locations in the table top game, but those were not what PGI was going with, so it meant that essentially some mechs would have no hand actuators... which for the most part it seemed meant nothing at first.

However, purists who commented on the missing hand actuator or lower arm actuator situation griped that it should mean that mechs should not be able to aim as well, since they do not have hand or even lower arm actuators. After debate, the devs decided and announced that not having lower arm actuators meant that a mech would not be able to aim side to side, so effectively up and down would be what the upper arm actuators gave in terms of moving crosshairs and side to side was what the lower arm actuators were supposed to give (and hand I guess). This was BEFORE clan mechs had even come out, I am guessing about the time of Yeng Lo Wang's release and early days.

Somewhere in there, people commented that the Yeng Lo Wang did have lower arm actuators in it's off arm (shield arm), so why no side to side aim, but the truth is, it does not matter in that case, because it had no actual weapons in the off arm/shield arm. But a mech that had the situation where one arm had no lower arm actuator, like for an AC20 or 2xUAC5, but the off hand also has weapons, like lasers or something AND DOES have an lower actuator, they said it would get roughly half the normal side to side "play/movement" so that off hand weapon with the lower actuator actually did get something for having a lower actuator. TO DATE I can't think of any mech where this actually applied though. Every mech I can think of that loses the lower actuator in one arm to get bigger ballistics, conveniently has nothing in the other arm that still has an lower arm actuator.

When clan mechs came along, the hand/lower arm actuator thing was mentioned and I assumed that it was a nerf to ballistics, where if you were running any ballistics in arms, or ppcs you would lose lower arm actuators (not just hand) and also lose side to side ability to aim. Since I don't and never have piloted any clan mechs, I really haven't thought about it any more than that though, but am informed that it's not the lower arm actuator lost, just the hand actuator. All this really means then is that if you are using those types of weapons in arms, you have more space to fit them, gaining some open crit slots because you choose ballistic or ppc in arms. If someone can inform me different, please do.

Aesthics is really all it seems to be about, beyond that. Since mechs do not melee in this game, hands are superfluous. If it was tabletop, trying to slam your weapon muzzle, laser lens or ppc emitter into an opponent likely would damage it as much as the enemy, so hands were essential for melee... hardened striking surfaces, capable also of holding weapons to do even more damage. Clans never engaged in melee if they could help it, it was considered primitive and unbecoming of a mechwarrior, while the inner sphere always maintained its use and in the actual table top, it was a serious consideration that strongly effected the flavor of playing inner sphere vs clan, because it meant alot about HOW you fought. Beyond the point that many have made here about 10 vs 12 being more appropriate for the clans, one of the great differences between these factions mechs was that clanners would try to avoid melee and seek medium or long range engagements, melting thier opponents before they even got close, while the inner sphere would try more to mix it up, brawl, ambush and generally force an engagement close where they physically could PUNT a clan light, or use an atlas to punch out a cockpit, in addition to thier weapons fire.

In MWO however, Inner Sphere must be close because of their short range weapons and if they don't some how close using terrain, the Clans WILL melt them before they even get close to a brawl. Range Modules have somewhat evened this out with quirks, but I think this was necessary, since even up close, LACKING melee there was NOTHING Inner Sphere really gained from being close. Clan pilots get more accurate too, up close. What should they have done? Put an min range like PPC on ALL clan weapons to balance?

Edited by Mad Porthos, 01 June 2015 - 08:56 AM.

[DONTOR]

Heres a question, I often take out both actuators on one arm and leave both in the other to fit 1 more DHS on Novas. Does this affect my arm movement in any way?

[SpiralFace]

Hand actuators are non-functional in MWO.

In BATTLETECH (The game that this game is based off of.) Hand actuators where used in "physical attacks" like punching, pushing, charging, Clubbing (beat them with their own mangled arm was always fun,) As well as in some forms of "objection raids," where mechs with hand manipulators where the only mechs able to grab objectives.

In MWO there is no function for them other then "hit box pad" and "Crit pad."

For hit box padding, Its important for clan mechs because MANY of their designs have fairly squishy torsos that are easily target-able. Having some extra hit box that covers JUST THAT MUCH MORE on the mech allows damage to spread better. (given that there is minimal times where that hand actuator would have caused a "full miss" anyways. So they are good in regards to clan mechs because they allow for a bit more arm tanking. which is something most clan mechs do not do well.

The more important thing is "crit padding" though. Because hand actuators do not cost any weight, and are non-functional, they act as an "extra critical" within the arm of the mech. While the actuators are not "functioning" piece of equipment that could be critted out at this time, They still absorb critical damage. So with a hand actuator, you have a total of 4 critical slots and 40 points of critical components that can be used as ablasive critical damage, padding any weapons or components you have in the location.

So if you are going to use the lower arm actuators on clan mechs and you have the space, its best if you put the hands on if you have the option. They don't do much due to their TRUE function being a feature that MWO would probably never implement, but they still act as a free crit padder as well as just a tiny bit more of a hitbox shield for you to roll damage off onto.

DONTOR, on 29 May 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

Heres a question, I often take out both actuators on one arm and leave both in the other to fit 1 more DHS on Novas. Does this affect my arm movement in any way?

No, only your crit padding capabilities. Although the Nova should have a good chunk of crit space in the torso's for the HS. * Edit, sorry, I thought you where talking about just the hand actuators. Lower arm actuators do effect how much yaw you have, but hand actuators are only there for crit padding.

Edited by SpiralFace, 29 May 2015 - 08:18 AM.

[o0Marduk0o]

DONTOR, on 29 May 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

Heres a question, I often take out both actuators on one arm and leave both in the other to fit 1 more DHS on Novas. Does this affect my arm movement in any way?

There are only lower arm and hand actuators to modify. You basically only use one of two possible lower arm actuators, resulting in only half additional arm movement range.

[DONTOR]

o0Marduk0o, on 29 May 2015 - 07:48 AM, said:

There are only lower arm and hand actuators to modify. You basically only use one of two possible lower arm actuators, resulting in only half additional arm movement range.

Ahh damn okay, so it does half my arm movement... Oh well some is better than none.

[The Great Unwashed]

More here: http://mwomercs.com/...specifications/

As well documented as ever! If you can find it, of course.

[BigJim]

Why hand actuators?

Sometimes it gets cold & lonely in those mechbays at night... Just saying..

[Koniving]

FreebirthToad18999, on 29 May 2015 - 06:18 AM, said:

Do hand actuators actually do anything other than add an aesthetic component to a mech? By relation, should I get rid of them on clan mechs in exchange for an extra crit slot?

In this game they can serve as a crit buffer. If you have something else to put there, by all means do so. Otherwise leave them to help protect your equipment.

Removing them has no effect on hitboxes as their presence is always there in relation to your hitbox (so removing them does not reduce your hitboxes).

They have very significant financial use in Battletech (hands = salvage = resources = money = more supplies = softer expenses = good). In terms of falls in Battletech, they are great for easing the difficulty in standing back up. Here, they are worthless beyond crit padding.

[Cupid and Psyche _]

Night Thastus, on 29 May 2015 - 07:37 AM, said:

Jeebus I hate misinformation. Same thing with the "Pinpoint" skill. Some people actually believe that still does something.

Is it really glitched? Or are you just referencing how little it actually affects gameplay?

[shippy]

If they followed the battletech game when/if they implement physical combat, units without them get penalized for punches.

[Nightshade24]

Well, It is kinda usefull when related to crits.

Crits also work on actuators and life support and engines, however do nothing, meaning this damage to your internals are nutrialised and pulled away from your weapons/ ammo/ equipments health.

In short:

A mech with hands, will have less crits to the arm area for equipment then mechs without it. (same with lower and upper actuators for the hand).

[Bloodweaver]

Mad Porthos, on 29 May 2015 - 07:42 AM, said:

TO DATE I can't think of any mech where this actually applied though. Every mech I can think of that loses the lower actuator in one arm to get bigger ballistics, conveniently has nothing in the other arm that still has an lower arm actuator.

Highlander 733C
Victor 9B
Victor 9S
almost all Clan 'Mechs
off the top of my head...

Edited by Bloodweaver, 30 May 2015 - 01:56 PM.

[Juodas Varnas]

Hand actuators are there for you to flip off the filthy clan mechs!

[Athalus]

Tranquil Winds, on 29 May 2015 - 02:54 PM, said:

Is it really glitched? Or are you just referencing how little it actually affects gameplay?

It affects convergence, which, as far as I'm aware, has been removed from the game years ago. Not gliched, just useless