244 replies to this topic

[sycocys]

I'm sure this was a topic when the pack was released, but I just got down to this mech... and it feels like its locked in some weird IS trial mech limbo.

It doesn't have enough armor to brawl, or hard point options to really do anything effectively. It's got the same armor as the Mad Dog, with 1/8th of the load out options. Several pods are completely empty and don't even offer some sort of reasonable bonus for being otherwise useless.

The point of this mech totally baffles me after better than an hour of trying to outfit it in the mechlab.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Summoner is supposed to be a heavy weapons platform, high mobility brawler, basically the urban shock trooper of the Clans.

It just doesn't have bloated hardpoints nor the spare tonnage to do it with any endurance.

Biggest problem with it tbh, is locked 5 tons of JJ's while still being somewhat underpowered to actually jump, and Ferro instead of Endo steel.

[Alistair Winter]

It's number 1 weapon is the power of nostalgia. It was such an iconic mech in earlier games.

I also like it a lot simply because it's a challenge. Which means I use it for pugging, and I leave it at home when it's time to get serious.

Frankly, I think they should just give it some extra hardpoints. The idea of not adding hardpoints for Clan mechs is a nice rule of thumb, but the idea should be abandoned for mechs that clearly suffer tremendusly from this rule. After all, BT was not made for MWO. I like the locked upgrades making Omnimechs more unique and different, but I don't feel like an extra hardpoint on some of the Summoner's omnipods would ruin my day. Not when PGI adds 0-5 hardpoints on every IS mech component.

[Templar Dane]

It doesn't translate into mwo well.

It doesn't have endo and has 5 tons worth of locked jumpjets.

Huge engine that can't be switched out.

It's non-missile hardpoints are pretty low.

[Linkin]

Favorite chasis, especially since the MW 3 intro

Sadly yea, its lack of hard points, and the fact that its rep as a 'big gun' mech doesn't work well in MWO, limit is effectiveness, compared to others. Still love to use it, but I know it isn't as effective

[Templar Dane]

Alistair Winter, on 22 May 2015 - 11:21 PM, said:

It's number 1 weapon is the power of nostalgia. It was such an iconic mech in earlier games.

I also like it a lot simply because it's a challenge. Which means I use it for pugging, and I leave it at home when it's time to get serious.

Frankly, I think they should just give it some extra hardpoints. The idea of not adding hardpoints for Clan mechs is a nice rule of thumb, but the idea should be abandoned for mechs that clearly suffer tremendusly from this rule. After all, BT was not made for MWO. I like the locked upgrades making Omnimechs more unique and different, but I don't feel like an extra hardpoint on some of the Summoner's omnipods would ruin my day. Not when PGI adds 0-5 hardpoints on every IS mech component.

What I'd personally like to see are some big quirks like some of the IS mechs. Keep the hardpoints to low-ish numbers but have set bonus quirks that reflect the stock loadouts.

Like the prime variant......

With all prime omnipods equipped, you get something along the lines of ERPPC bonuses of pre-nerf thunderbolt 9S and the cent-D LBX10 bonuses and I guess throw some LRM15 bonuses in even though it doesn't really have the tonnage to bring it.

It can't fit more than one of each weapon system, so it couldn't possibly be overpowered but it would be really effective with it's intended loadout.

[Linkin]

lordtzar, on 22 May 2015 - 11:31 PM, said:

What I'd personally like to see are some big quirks like some of the IS mechs. Keep the hardpoints to low-ish numbers but have set bonus quirks that reflect the stock loadouts.

Like the prime variant......

With all prime omnipods equipped, you get something along the lines of ERPPC bonuses of pre-nerf thunderbolt 9S and the cent-D LBX10 bonuses and I guess throw some LRM15 bonuses in even though it doesn't really have the tonnage to bring it.

It can't fit more than one of each weapon system, so it couldn't possibly be overpowered but it would be really effective with it's intended loadout.

Yes please!

[Quicksilver Aberration]

sycocys, on 22 May 2015 - 11:15 PM, said:

It doesn't have enough armor to brawl.

This is somewhat of a flawed statement. It has 70 tonner armor, surprisingly good hitboxes, and good maneuverability (including JJs) which give it decievingly more endurance than the Hellbringer and Mad Dog which can have their separate torso sections isolated with greater ease. Dem legs though.....

It is the best 70 ton mech in the game, it just needs a little love in the hardpoint department (cmon SMN-M and future variants) or the ability to run Endo on top of Ferro and it could easily be a better mech. The low weapon mounts wouldn't be as big of a deal if the cockpit wasn't so high up creating weird convergence issues for some loadouts.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 22 May 2015 - 11:36 PM.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

It needs energy mounts in its torsos similar to the Sparky, along with Endo and removal of those JJs.

I loathe to give it additional torso mounted missile hardpoints. In all actuallity LRM Summoners are piss easy to take care of, but when I'm engaged with priority targets that I CANNNOT ignore, an LRM Summoner is the most annoying goddamn thing I will have to deal with.

[Templar Dane]

WM Quicksilver, on 22 May 2015 - 11:34 PM, said:

This is somewhat of a flawed statement. It has 70 tonner armor, surprisingly good hitboxes, and good maneuverability (including JJs) which give it decievingly more endurance than the Hellbringer and Mad Dog which can have their separate torso sections isolated with greater ease. Dem legs though.....

It is the best 70 ton mech in the game, it just needs a little love in the hardpoint department (cmon SMN-M and future variants) or the ability to run Endo on top of Ferro and it could easily be a better mech. The low weapon mounts wouldn't be as big of a deal if the cockpit wasn't so high up creating weird convergence issues for some loadouts.

I've used a near-stock prime variant quite a bit and what killed it for me (other than having a **** loadout) was that it's arms are kind of impossible to miss and losing 50% of your weapons every time you lost an arm was kinda devastating.

The thing with inflating it's weapons is that they'd likely be in the arms in a lot of instances, thus my point above. That and it is kind of tonnage-starved, adding more hardpoints......all you could really do is more laser vomit. With PGI and the community in general getting tired of [clan] laser vomit, I don't really see that happening.

And I'm pretty sure a 'phract beats out a summoner......

[bad arcade kitty]

the only good way to use it i can think of it's streakmoner/splatmoner
slower than crow and his missile hardpoints are mostly in hands but it can jump

[Nightshade24]

sycocys, on 22 May 2015 - 11:15 PM, said:

I'm sure this was a topic when the pack was released, but I just got down to this mech... and it feels like its locked in some weird IS trial mech limbo.

It doesn't have enough armor to brawl, or hard point options to really do anything effectively. It's got the same armor as the Mad Dog, with 1/8th of the load out options. Several pods are completely empty and don't even offer some sort of reasonable bonus for being otherwise useless.

The point of this mech totally baffles me after better than an hour of trying to outfit it in the mechlab.

Clans still win in event.

must be the OP summoner.

next patch: increase ER PPC heat by 30%. hard lock the LRM 15 in the prime and the machine guns on the D.

[bad arcade kitty]

summoner-m with an energy hardpoint in head (with 2 free slots to put ppc there) or even better side torsos (to be able to shift it between versions) would be great

also it seems aidan pryde at least briefly used something like that having ppc, cannon and a laser, i reread the book recently

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 22 May 2015 - 11:49 PM.

[Templar Dane]

Sigilum Sanctum, on 22 May 2015 - 11:41 PM, said:

It needs energy mounts in its torsos similar to the Sparky, along with Endo and removal of those JJs.

I loathe to give it additional torso mounted missile hardpoints. In all actuallity LRM Summoners are piss easy to take care of, but when I'm engaged with priority targets that I CANNNOT ignore, an LRM Summoner is the most annoying goddamn thing I will have to deal with.

Some of the later variants have like one energy hardpoint in this or that torso. In most of the variants I'm familiar with most of the time the lion's share of it's armament is in the arms. I doubt PGI is going to deviate from the lore and put hardpoints where they aren't supposed to be.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

lordtzar, on 22 May 2015 - 11:43 PM, said:

I've used a near-stock prime variant quite a bit

Here is your problem, using a near stock variant to judge the usefulness of a mech is not going to give a good gauge of the mech.

As for the Phract beating the Summoner, it really depends. The Cataphract suffers from not having Clan tech and ok hitboxes, while the Summoner just suffers from not being able to abuse Clan tech to its fullest.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 22 May 2015 - 11:50 PM.

[sycocys]

A couple energy in the totally empty torso's (though I am getting sick of laser everything myself).

Not having endo is completely foolish for a mech that seemingly wants ballistics/heavy weapons to offset its lack of hard points.

The only thing I can see is an LBX20 and PPC or something along those lines and try to play it like a knock off dragon of sorts.

Mostly it just baffles me because it seems like the only Clan mech that even across all of its pods could drop in on the IS side and fit right in with its extremely tight limitations. Doesn't feel like it fits in with all the other clan mechs I've toyed with up to this point at all.

Edited by sycocys, 22 May 2015 - 11:56 PM.

[Escef]

The Summoner is actually a pretty decent maneuver support heavy. I've had success with ERPPC/UAC10/SSRM4, as well as a quad ERLL set up. It's generally not the mech that's going to win the day, but it shines when it has team mates nearby. It can snipe, it can be a good missile platform, and it can be a skirmisher/striker. In a brawl it usually has enough cooling to keep up the tempo, but unless you're mostly SRMs you just don't have the firepower to be a dedicated brawler.

[Templar Dane]

WM Quicksilver, on 22 May 2015 - 11:49 PM, said:

Here is your problem, using a near stock variant to judge the usefulness of a mech is not going to give a good gauge of the mech.

As for the Phract beating the Summoner, it really depends. The Cataphract suffers from not having Clan tech and ok hitboxes, while the Summoner just suffers from not being able to abuse Clan tech to its fullest.

I'm a bit of a mechwarrior hipster. A good half of my mechs are near-stock. I try different builds, some end up being "meta" but when I max out a chassis I'll revisit it and try to tweak the stock loadout to do what it was originally intended to do. Like my vultures, most of them are fitted with 2x artemis LRM15s and pulse lasers.

The Phract having double the tonnage to work with, superior IS ballistics, being able to equip a standard engine and going asymmetrical and having a decent number of hardpoints kind of trumps the summoner's mobility advantages.

edit

And I kind of love the sound of a ppc and an LB10..........

Edited by lordtzar, 23 May 2015 - 12:01 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

lordtzar, on 22 May 2015 - 11:59 PM, said:

The Phract having double the tonnage to work with, superior IS ballistics, being able to equip a standard engine and going asymmetrical and having a decent number of hardpoints kind of trumps the summoner's mobility advantages.

With a STD 275, ES, and full armor, the Phract has a 10 ton advantage on the Summoner, which is generally thrown away when mounting tonnage inefficient IS weapons. So the tonnage advantage isn't as big of a deal as you would think (not to mention the 4 DHS stuck in the engine).

The only IS ballistic who's superiority matters, is the AC20 and possibly the AC5. The Clans have the better Gauss and still seems to be the most dominant ballistic in the game.

Most Phract builds aren't fully asymmetrical and tend to run similar to the Summoner. The hardpoints aren't as big of a deal as one might think thanks to greatness that are clan lasers and SRMs.

[Soy]

poor thor