387 replies to this topic

[Pjwned]

The problem with LRM pilots is when they depend entirely on the rest of their team to hold locks for them, and when locks are not held well enough (which is often enough) then they are being a useless piece of crap and they don't contribute anything.

Saying "hold locks" simply as a reminder is fine if it doesn't actually mean "please spot my targets for me because I will never spot my own," but if somebody tells you to get your own locks then bitching out and leaving the match is a sure sign of being a terrible scrubshitter.

I will occasionally go out of my way to hold locks for LRMs if I'm at a safe distance and I know that LRMs will be fired at the target out in the open, but the point still stands that if you don't even try to hold your own locks then quite often the team might as well be down by 1 player anyways regardless if you disconnect.

I also have an immense dislike for LRM pilots who sit behind a hill and don't ever acquire their own locks and additionally they waste a ton of ammo, heat, and cooldown periods because they fire on the first lock they see regardless of how long the lock lasts; if you play LRMs like this then just play something else or don't play at all and stop taking up an otherwise useful spot on the team.

Edited by Pjwned, 29 May 2015 - 04:53 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

CocoaJin, on 29 May 2015 - 04:10 PM, said:

And let's not forget...direct fire guys know how to fight.

I'd say, looking at the end of match scores, that is categorically untrue about 90% of the time.

[nehebkau]

Allen Ward, on 29 May 2015 - 01:46 PM, said:

The responds in this thread clearly show the attitude of the majority of the player community: ego trip. LRMs are a support weapon and they usually are used as an indirect firing weapon. How can anyone just say: get your own lock, it's not my job?

The statement was HOLD LOCKS ... which implies staying in the enemy line of fire longer than you need to so someone else can get a few random hits on an enemy. "Sure I'll stand out in the open while the enemy lasers rip my CT apart so that your stream of LRM 5s can be chewed up by their AMS"

This was not about locking targets -- which every good player does so that they can see where to hit a weakened enemy -- HOLD LOCKS? Screw that -- get your own locks and hold them let that enemy laser fire rip apart your armor for a change and see how you like it -- oh wait you don't which is why you, MR LRM boat, are hiding in the back.

Bishop Steiner, on 29 May 2015 - 04:17 PM, said:

I'd say, looking at the end of match scores, that is categorically untrue about 90% of the time.

100 damage only on CTs is better than 400 damage spread out all over a mech imho

Edited by nehebkau, 29 May 2015 - 04:21 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 May 2015 - 04:17 PM, said:

I'd say, looking at the end of match scores, that is categorically untrue about 90% of the time.

Yep, yep, again a reason for me to turn this into a rant on EVERYONE targeting the 'mech they are firing at to get better at the game...

[Bishop Steiner]

One Medic Army, on 29 May 2015 - 04:07 PM, said:

You're missing the point. The direct fire arc, and the affects of TAG/Artemis mean when you do your own spotting the missiles clump better and bore through CTs. Also when you're going indirect it's much harder to know when your missiles are hitting terrain, or the enemy is about to move behind cover.

minimap is your friend. I prefer direct fire, but use the minimap to gauge effectiveness of targets of opportunity, indirectly, too. Especially if I have already ID'd him as an Assault, and thus unable to shift fast.

[Novakaine]

1453 R, on 29 May 2015 - 04:03 PM, said:

Problems with people giving you the sass over an LRM-centric loadout?

One simple phrase to shut them up. Throw it out there, and they'll either laugh, shake their heads and sigh, or get incensed and quit. Whichever way it goes down, you don't have to listen to them anymore.

#Lurm2Play

[Ragtag soldier]

Pjwned, on 29 May 2015 - 04:17 PM, said:

The problem with LRM pilots is when they depend entirely on the rest of their team to hold locks for them-

because with the massive amounts of ways to break a lock and LRMs godsawful flight time, holding your own lock requires opponents that are both slower and dumber than a sack of wet planks. direct fire mean you're landing about 10% of your missiles most times while your opponents are able to freely laser your ass.

long range missiles have been the whipping boy for a long time because the average MWO player is a useless shitheel that couldn't care less if his team is losing so long as he's "trading well" and assumes that the rest of his team is there to support him. the thought of a weapon that can target them from over the cover they're using AND potentially "steal my kill" because they're providing a lock on for friendly missiles angers the hell out of these emotionally defective ratlips.

[CocoaJin]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 May 2015 - 04:17 PM, said:

I'd say, looking at the end of match scores, that is categorically untrue about 90% of the time.

Those are LRM guys moonlighting in direct fire builds.

nehebkau, on 29 May 2015 - 04:18 PM, said:

100 damage only on CTs is better than 400 damage spread out all over a mech imho

Thats about right

[Bishop Steiner]

CocoaJin, on 29 May 2015 - 04:28 PM, said:

Those are LRM guys moonlighting in direct fire builds.



Thats about right

shame 90% of players can't put 100 dmg on the ct of a shutdown AWS. Including, likely most of those posting, lol.

[MechaBattler]

Because sometimes LRMs take the kills those players sacrificed armor to get.

On the other end. People don't like to lose to something they can't see. People hated it in World of Tanks when arty could one shot them. For that matter people don't like getting one shot. They like to feel they have a fighting chance.

That helplessness is a very stupid thing to have in an online competitive game. It's more fun to have a fighting chance.

Edited by MechaBattler, 29 May 2015 - 04:51 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

MechaBattler, on 29 May 2015 - 04:50 PM, said:

...

That helplessness is a very stupid thing to have in an online competitive game. It's more fun to have a fighting chance.

Unfortunately programmers aren't miracle workers, they can't program the game to give people skill they currently don't possess, or possibly are incapable of possessing.

[rolly]

Jman5, on 29 May 2015 - 01:16 PM, said:

I love these LRM debates. If you do low damage and die it's because LRMs suck. If you do high damage it's because of inefficient damage spread.

It's impossible to argue with these people that LRM mechs can be any good because no matter how well or poorly you do it's used to justify why they think LRMs are bad. It's funny how no one applies this same logic to any other weapon type.

Lets not forget the best argument: "You LRM players and your LRM's suck because I say so."

Edited by rolly, 29 May 2015 - 04:57 PM.

[Apnu]

Dimento Graven, on 29 May 2015 - 03:02 PM, said:

AH! Trying to insult someone by calling them a "tryhard" is absolutely laughable.

If you care about winning, you'll "try hard".

If you don't care about winning, when you see me on your team, feel free to disconnect. I don't need some idiot on my team half-ass'ing it because he doesn't mind losing...

Call me a "tryhard" all you want buddy, it don't hurt my feelin's none at all!

Interesting, I never mentioned you, but you took it personally. Methinks you doth protest too much.

[MechaBattler]

Dimento Graven, on 29 May 2015 - 04:56 PM, said:

Unfortunately programmers aren't miracle workers, they can't program the game to give people skill they currently don't possess, or possibly are incapable of possessing.

I honestly think they made ECM the way they did. Just so they could limit the helplessness of being under LRM attack.

[Pjwned]

Ragtag soldier, on 29 May 2015 - 04:27 PM, said:

because with the massive amounts of ways to break a lock and LRMs godsawful flight time, holding your own lock requires opponents that are both slower and dumber than a sack of wet planks. direct fire mean you're landing about 10% of your missiles most times while your opponents are able to freely laser your ass.

What you seem to be saying is that LRM mechs shouldn't need to expose themselves to damage the enemy ever despite every other mech in the game needing to do so, regardless of how terrible their performance is if they don't spot their own targets ever.

I would also like to say that you seem to underestimate how effective it is to rain on somebody with LRMs because if you're at a proper distance and you don't let the enemy rush you (with or without any teammates nearby to back you up) then they are pretty much forced to retreat into cover. If the issue is you getting focus fired because you do something other than hide behind a hill, then your positioning and choice of targets need work.

Quote

long range missiles have been the whipping boy for a long time because the average MWO player is a useless shitheel that couldn't care less if his team is losing so long as he's "trading well" and assumes that the rest of his team is there to support him. the thought of a weapon that can target them from over the cover they're using AND potentially "steal my kill" because they're providing a lock on for friendly missiles angers the hell out of these emotionally defective ratlips.

This just sounds like somebody who's mad because they use LRMs like a scrub more than anything else.

Edited by Pjwned, 29 May 2015 - 05:23 PM.

[oldradagast]

Just a thought - a frightening percentage of the player base is allergic to the R button.

Maybe they should listen to the LRM player who's requesting locks instead of making up idiotic notions that the guy's a parasite or some drek.

[bad arcade kitty]

i already wrote why you always should lock the target, it really helps your teammates with any build, but, yes, especially to those with lurms and streaks

[Deathlike]

masCh, on 29 May 2015 - 11:54 AM, said:

I only wish you see the video so we can discuss how the LRMs caused the enemy Warhawk and the other heavy to disengage from our Atlas and other teammates as soon as they got the "Incoming Missile" warning message. If passive team gets destroyed then it does not relate to making LRM useless does it? Even further certainly not cause to say a waste of a slot.

Very often, LRMs do drive people do head for cover, regardless of the situation. However, efficient direct fire units would finish off that Atlas quickly and eventually mark your LRM boat for death.

Passive teams usually lose. It's the same argument used for "that mech build is effective when noone is looking at you" for bad mech (and/or bad builds).

Very often, I do aim for murdering LRM boats when I'm not preoccupied with bigger threats.

masCh, on 29 May 2015 - 01:25 PM, said:

Then you would know it wouldn't take a random lucky match to make the top 50 list.

So why are the LRM pilots consistently scoring top in their matches then if the LRM weapon itself was bad?

Top score != MVP

Also, missiles in general rack high scores, but that don't contribute into efficient kills. It's like saying "LBX and MGs do a lot of damage".


Back when LRMs were worse, I didn't mind helping... because it usually required complete incompetence to lose to them. I didn't have a problem with that.

Nowadays, I help them out with a UAV and spotting, but they keep LRMings targets that don't help me at all... while I'm taking damage and proceed to die, and usually watch the LRM boat die subsequently because they had to "finish" off some other irrelevant target (something that couldn't be hit and/or something that isn't within my FOV).

It's only worse when the map reduces the LRM user's effectiveness (under HPG and the lower garage areas of Crimson Strait)

My frustration is pretty large regarding this... because "more often than not" the LRM user isn't making good decisions. Very rarely I see effective play with them.

Unless the LRM "quality of play" gets better, it's hard to find an LRM user useful more often than not.

The people who don't help the LRM user (within reason) are a problem of their own... generally just selfish... but it would take a lot of improvements in LRMs and LRM users before the LRM isn't looked upon as "an inconsistent weapon at best".

Edited by Deathlike, 29 May 2015 - 05:34 PM.

[oldradagast]

I'd be willing to bet that if people actually had a way to break down the terrible players by preferred weapon type, LRM's would *barely* edge out the competition, but that's it. And that, I think, honestly boils down to the missile tube idiocy and how certain mechs that should be able to use LRM's really can't thanks to the undocumented missile tube limitation "feature."

[masCh]

Deathlike, on 29 May 2015 - 05:33 PM, said:

Top score != MVP

Also, missiles in general rack high scores, but that don't contribute into efficient kills. It's like saying "LBX and MGs do a lot of damage".

What if you do top score and half the kills of your team though? Obviously you haven't watched the vid in first page.

Anyway that's not what we're debating, we're not talking about being MVP.

We're talking about liking a reply that says "waste of a mech slot" if you bring an LRM mech.