384 replies to this topic

[jaxjace]

Bow before your Energy Boat overlords. Lest you be scythed down by Large Pulse.

You said it yourself btw, it takes skill to focus on one component, a lot more than 10% of us can do that. Its actually quite easy, its a ******* laser. I would argue the most skill weapon in the game is medium lasers, ppcs, and srms and maybe autocannons. Gauss i feel is just pretty easy for most.

[Almond Brown]

What with MWO being a Team based game, LRM's provide a rather interesting dynamic when one looks deep into the crystal ball of good fortune.

If a Lance/Team mate has LRM's and I do not, I can actually assist that Lance/Team mate while they assist me as well. If damage done and Kills are all that draw you to the field of battle, then LRM's are not #1 on the list. BUT, if you wish to help secure victory for your side, and are not so worried about those precious, e-peen based, screen shots, that LRM Mech can be a valuable ally indeed.

When the fight gets in close and you, and your LRM mate (who knows the >180m rule) and you also understand what the "R" key is for, that LRM Lance/Team Mate can provide you with added damage to your target and as a bonus, longer survivability for yourself. Brawling while under an LRM barrage, vs not under an LRM barrage, is two entirely different beasts. I always prefer that the enemy be the one getting barraged btw.

So, I can get LRM damage added to my enemy target, all the while not carrying my own LRM's. All I have to do is help out a Teammate who does have them. Win Win...

Edited by Almond Brown, 01 June 2015 - 08:03 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

jaxjace, on 01 June 2015 - 07:30 AM, said:

Bow before your Energy Boat overlords. Lest you be scythed down by Large Pulse.

You said it yourself btw, it takes skill to focus on one component, a lot more than 10% of us can do that. Its actually quite easy, its a ******* laser. I would argue the most skill weapon in the game is medium lasers, ppcs, and srms and maybe autocannons. Gauss i feel is just pretty easy for most.

I think gauss is one of the things that is pretty easy due to projectile speed, but moderately difficult to be REALLY good with. I see a lot of it, but only a few Gauss-Poets, so to speak that make me really worried.

I'd say effective, and efficient use of PPCs, and ACs are probably the two hardest since you need to learn to actually aim, to lead and anticipate, and between heat, weight and or ammo, are comparatively unforgiving. Most people just spam at the moving box with any weapon they use, anyhow.

[IraqiWalker]

KuroNyra, on 01 June 2015 - 03:48 AM, said:

For that, if you want the missiles to work the same way they did in the other games.
You would then be able to:

Direct fires with TAGS, And NARCS
Lock guys EVEN if they are not the ones you are targeting with "R" button, and all that while moving, because yeah, you could lock and move in earlier MW games. And that applyes to Spotter too.

You could lock guys while moving in TT, as well.

[Satan n stuff]

IraqiWalker, on 01 June 2015 - 10:52 AM, said:

You could lock guys while moving in TT, as well.

Obviously. The best spotting gear in TT doesn't even care if you're moving as long as you manage to get close enough to negate the +4 range modifier for those gunboats sitting in the treeline on the far side of the battlefield.
You could feasibly build a 20 ton light with nothing but a C3 slave, max armor where it matters and a bigass XL engine, it would be practically untouchable and it would give the rest of your C3 equipped lance near perfect accuracy at ridiculous ranges.

[Wintersdark]

Almond Brown, on 01 June 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

What with MWO being a Team based game, LRM's provide a rather interesting dynamic when one looks deep into the crystal ball of good fortune.

If a Lance/Team mate has LRM's and I do not, I can actually assist that Lance/Team mate while they assist me as well. If damage done and Kills are all that draw you to the field of battle, then LRM's are not #1 on the list. BUT, if you wish to help secure victory for your side, and are not so worried about those precious, e-peen based, screen shots, that LRM Mech can be a valuable ally indeed.

When the fight gets in close and you, and your LRM mate (who knows the >180m rule) and you also understand what the "R" key is for, that LRM Lance/Team Mate can provide you with added damage to your target and as a bonus, longer survivability for yourself. Brawling while under an LRM barrage, vs not under an LRM barrage, is two entirely different beasts. I always prefer that the enemy be the one getting barraged btw.

So, I can get LRM damage added to my enemy target, all the while not carrying my own LRM's. All I have to do is help out a Teammate who does have them. Win Win...

Yup. That's where those multi-launcher LRM mechs are really fantastic.

It's easy to fire through screen shake, but it's hard to pinpoint target components through it. I can happily land all my shots on an opponent in a brawl through constant LRM rain, but I can't put them where I want them - I'm just firing center mass at the target under the dorito. That works fine, but it's a substantial disadvantage to be unable to surgically remove target components in a brawl.

So, this is why I'm such a fan of 360 targetting. I don't use it to help ME, I use it to ensure LRM boats on my teams have ongoing targeting data to someone I'm brawling with, particularly when I'm in a lighter, faster mech. Help them, help me.

[IraqiWalker]

Satan n stuff, on 01 June 2015 - 11:08 AM, said:

Obviously. The best spotting gear in TT doesn't even care if you're moving as long as you manage to get close enough to negate the +4 range modifier for those gunboats sitting in the treeline on the far side of the battlefield.
You could feasibly build a 20 ton light with nothing but a C3 slave, max armor where it matters and a bigass XL engine, it would be practically untouchable and it would give the rest of your C3 equipped lance near perfect accuracy at ridiculous ranges.

Funny you mentioned C3. What we currently have in ALL THE MECHS, right now, is basically C3i without any cost, or limit.

All of our mechs can share target information with all other mechs on the team, plus help with the aiming (since we can see those red boxes from long distance, and even behind cover), we literally have c3i on all our mechs, pre-installed, for free.

[Aresye]

KuroNyra, on 01 June 2015 - 03:48 AM, said:

For that, if you want the missiles to work the same way they did in the other games.
You would then be able to:

Direct fires with TAGS, And NARCS
Lock guys EVEN if they are not the ones you are targeting with "R" button, and all that while moving, because yeah, you could lock and move in earlier MW games. And that applyes to Spotter too.


Your idea of making mech stationnary to lock is just plain wrong, wouldn't work and won't solve in any freaking way the problem.

All of that without forgeting the fact that the others games were SOLO games. Where you had unbalanced weapons with the Clans AC actually useful, clans laser with highter range for same laser duration for LESS HEAT AND LESS TONS. Let's not forget it was the same for the Clans LRMS.

You're right, the suggestions I made would not work within the current implementation of the game, because the entire foundation of sensor mechanics and ECM is flawed, and has always been flawed.

There is no WIN condition when it comes to LRMs. You can't buff missiles to the point of viability without them becoming overpowered, which we saw in the past. You can't fix LRM mechanics without fixing sensors/ECM, else they will become completely non-viable, and you can't fix sensors/ECM without fixing LRM mechanics. All because of a broken foundation in how targeting, sensors, ECM, and missiles behave.

The only real way to fix everything is to fix the foundation.

[Satan n stuff]

IraqiWalker, on 01 June 2015 - 12:26 PM, said:

Funny you mentioned C3. What we currently have in ALL THE MECHS, right now, is basically C3i without any cost, or limit.

All of our mechs can share target information with all other mechs on the team, plus help with the aiming (since we can see those red boxes from long distance, and even behind cover), we literally have c3i on all our mechs, pre-installed, for free.

Nope, you could do that without C3, under double blind rules even. C3 only improves accuracy.

[IraqiWalker]

Satan n stuff, on 01 June 2015 - 12:33 PM, said:

Nope, you could do that without C3, under double blind rules even. C3 only improves accuracy.

Without C3 we assumed the condition of the targeted mech, health, weapons ... etc. couldn't be transferred. Just location, and simple target info.

[Bishop Steiner]

Wintersdark, on 01 June 2015 - 12:21 PM, said:

Yup. That's where those multi-launcher LRM mechs are really fantastic.

It's easy to fire through screen shake, but it's hard to pinpoint target components through it. I can happily land all my shots on an opponent in a brawl through constant LRM rain, but I can't put them where I want them - I'm just firing center mass at the target under the dorito. That works fine, but it's a substantial disadvantage to be unable to surgically remove target components in a brawl.

So, this is why I'm such a fan of 360 targetting. I don't use it to help ME, I use it to ensure LRM boats on my teams have ongoing targeting data to someone I'm brawling with, particularly when I'm in a lighter, faster mech. Help them, help me.

Also, if your opponent is at all competent at twisting, you may be shooting "center mass" but are really spreading all over the torsos and arms, and have no way to adjust and compensate. No holding your alpha til they "look".

[GuardDogg]

LRMs do great in CW.

[Ghogiel]

skilltubes are considered low skill because you only really see them in underhive pug games and any good players using them i group queues is praying for caustic and also knows they will get pwnt in the group queue if they hit any other good players

[Kristov Kerensky]

Laservomit is the meta because it is the EASIEST and least skill required mechanic in the game currently that offers the best results. JUST LIKE EVERY SINGLE META BEFORE IT!

It's not meta because it's hard, takes skill and lots and lots of practice, it's meta because it is the easiest way to get good damage numbers and kills, nothing more. Do keep denying that, it's quite amusing, especially when I see people are I KNOW are actually quite skilled at clicking their LMB, and that's all I know about them. It's a VIDEO GAME!

I see some of you talking about honor, skill, ******* and I just laugh, literally, my Director of Operations keeps looking at me, sees the MWO forums and just shakes his head.

You want to show me honor, skill and *******, you show me your knighthood from the SCA or your military paperwork, THEN you can talk to me about those things. But the moment you bring them up in a VIDEO GAME, you lose ALL weight to your arguments and have waved the white flag of surrender. There is no honor in a video game, skill is extremely debatable when laservomit is the meta and all it requires is a good LMB clicker, and *******...seriously, you need something to make you brave in a video game that has NO direct or indirect consequences on your life in or out of the video game?

LRMs can be a noobtube weapon, that's a fact, but they DO at least require more intelligence to use than lasers, so right off the bat they have the higher low skill floor. The fact that they are a team oriented weapon really seems to totally escape most of the tryhards, who are all about personal damage/kill, which in a team game means you are the weak link in the chain. I love having LRM support builds on my side, it makes taking out the enemy easier, if those LRMers are any good. If they suck, well, they are probably less useful than the worst laservomit user because those don't take brains.

I often take a LRM support build into CW, I've dropped against some of the top teams, and I've found my LRMs do amazingly well against them. The lack of appreciation of LRMs by some of the top teams amazes me frankly, especially since I've seen some of them USE LRMs in CW to excellent effect. LRMs are something the tryhards make fun of because they don't get them, too much required to be good with them, and they are NOT good tools for the people looking for max damage/kills personally. Team players appreciate LRMs because they are a great tool for team play.

If you think you are in a top comp team and none of you uses LRMs, you really need to rethink the type of team you are in, sounds like a bunch of 1v1 players who haven't figured out what team means yet.

[Thomas G Wolf]

Simple, always ALWAYS have back up weapons you do that and your fine, I top 1k damage quiet often with my LRM boats, if your too stupid to get out of the rain you will get wet.

If you stand still in your LRM boat all the time hopeing for a lock or an angle then your doing it wrong is all I can say, oh and my damage is always without artemis and not one of my LRM boats has a avearge damage output of under 350 to 400.

[EightBitKnight]

I think part of it is everyone wants to pack their mech full of Lrm20s because 'bigger number equals bigger damage' has been drilled into their heads. Lrms are as has been said a support weapon. I don't use my Lrm boat to brawl and I definitely don't expect to get mass amount of kills assists yup but 1-2 kills is normal (for me anyway). People don't lock because IDK but it's silly as it hurts both these types of builds and your team, they can't help you if there's no red Dorito to follow to the enemy your fighting you look like a the other blue doritos. Lrms boats should stay to the back or side of the pack in my experience no right in the fray. Thais way you can rain down the hurt more easyly and your more likely to get targets.

Edited by EightBitKnight, 02 June 2015 - 09:35 PM.

[Dr Hobo]

It's easy. It's light. And all you need to do is fit as many energy weapon hard points your omni can handle then stuff the rest with max armor and heat sinks.

Compared to LRMs where you need BAP,UAV,Command Console,Artemis+TAG just to get around the ludicrous ECM spam we have now.(By the way anyone who runs with my C1F I have all of those,minus tag at the moment,been working on the build more)

So basically,if I want to equal a mechs armor points in damage with LRM I have to carry all that gear(1.5t for the BAP,1 I think for the CC,an extra 1.5T on my launchers,and a ton for the TAG.) So adding up what I need for LRMs to be marginally effective,I need to carry what? 5 tons just for gear. On top of the insane amount of ammo I need to carry because everything counters them. Mind you,I do follow my team the best I can as I do try to follow around and light up called targets(sometimes I'm just lazy and end up derping it up like a moron)

I love my Catapult C1-F. I just never use it anymore. My Hunchback 4G(F) gets more consistent damage than the Catapult ever could. Crappy map meshes do not help any weapon system however.

However,above all,when I run my Catapult I strive to do damage. I don't want kills,that's not my place. I want to soften you up so my team can finish you off.


Clan missiles vs IS missiles? One hit's you as one big ball of shotgun pellets all over,the other one is a waterfall. Both are pretty meh.

[Aresye]

Kristov Kerensky, on 02 June 2015 - 12:46 PM, said:

If you think you are in a top comp team and none of you uses LRMs, you really need to rethink the type of team you are in, sounds like a bunch of 1v1 players who haven't figured out what team means yet.

There are some good comp teams that utilize LRMs in their loadouts. Know what happens? They get their faces wiped by the better comp teams that DON'T use LRMs, because LRMs are a terrible weapon that has hard counters, and every good comp team will make your LRMs 100% useless.

One could objectively argue that skill isn't just in placing shots, but knowing the game balance and mechanics. LRMs could be the highest skill weapon in the entire game for all intents and purposes, but due to how easy they are to defeat, and their inconsistent damage output, it doesn't matter.

"Skill," when it pertains to video games, essentially boils down to winning games. You could demonstrate great mastery at golf by using the most difficult, clunky, imbalanced driver, but if you consistently lose against golfers that bought the best drivers, you are not, "more skilled," at golf then they are. They have more skill than you, because they're the ones winning. They are demonstrating mastery of the game itself, and are thus more skilled at golf than you are.

So regardless of the meta being the easiest, most efficient loadouts to use, those that utilize the meta (and win) have every right to say they're more skilled at the game.

[YueFei]

No one is as honorable and skilled as the man who uses TAG lasers and TAGs TWO targets simultaneously!

Yes, I speak of the man, the legend, of... FantasticTuesday!!!

Edited by YueFei, 02 June 2015 - 10:22 PM.

[Dr Hobo]

YueFei, on 02 June 2015 - 10:16 PM, said:

No one is as honorable and skilled as the man who uses TAG lasers and TAGs TWO targets simultaneously!

Yes, I speak of the man, the legend, of... FantasticTuesday!!!

I've done that a few times. It's great. I used a Commando for a bit.