384 replies to this topic

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Gut, on 30 May 2015 - 10:03 AM, said:

If you aim correctly yes. That's where the "what I call actual" skill part comes in.

Interesting that you dont attribute that skill to the weapon where even if you aim right you still arent guaranteed a hit

Where "actual skill" is only applied to the weapon where if you aim correctly youre guaranteed a hit.

That seems off to me

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 30 May 2015 - 10:11 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 30 May 2015 - 10:00 AM, said:

So they get bitched at for being no skill noobs? Im genuinely curious

In a good natured way yes.
They get bitched about for having a cush job... Until its time for our fat to be pulled out of the fire. Then its a different story. Here if Missile fly and save our bacon the aid is scoffed at.

[Wintersdark]

Gut, on 30 May 2015 - 10:03 AM, said:

You take out the fact that the person who is the spotter has guns as well. Just because you have someone else helping you doesn't make the fact of what you're doing less or more skillful.

No, but at those levels as you well know those other people aren't staying exposed long enough for you to grab their target, get a lock, launch your missiles and have those missiles hit. No, if you want to use LRM's effectively at high levels of play (and it's not impossible), you need to have a hell of a lot of skill with it. You need to manage your exposure more, get a lock, move into cover and back out again before you lose lock in order to maintain it during the flight time.

It's objectively more difficult than peeking and poking then hiding again because of the on-going target requirement.

[AEgg]

Eider, on 30 May 2015 - 10:07 AM, said:

This is still going on? let me end it. Lrms are considered noob weapons because you can safely hide behind a mountain. Whats that? they can break locks blah blah? well good thing you got at least 2 thousand missiles right? You take no real risk in comparison to lasers. If i could fire lasers behind cover from at least 1k away from the enemy then sure, you could call those noob too.

You can safelty hide behind a mountain with lasers or ballistics too. You aren't any less useless than doing it with LRMs. The topic is why LRMS are hard to use Effectively, not hard to equip and be useless with. You can be useless with anything.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Eider, on 30 May 2015 - 10:07 AM, said:

This is still going on? let me end it. Lrms are considered noob weapons because you can safely hide behind a mountain. Whats that? they can break locks blah blah? well good thing you got at least 2 thousand missiles right? You take no real risk in comparison to lasers. If i could fire lasers behind cover from at least 1k away from the enemy then sure, you could call those noob too.

What? Your lasers are invalidated by ECM too? What when you fire your lasers if they break the lock before they get there you miss?

[Joseph Mallan]

Gas Guzzler, on 30 May 2015 - 10:08 AM, said:

Yeah, and direct fire mechs don't also need to know that?

Your RL military analogies hardly apply to video game skillz in this case.

Sorry guys, every single skill you need to use LRMs, also applies to direct-fire weapons.

So then direct fire weapons are just as no skill requiring as Missiles. So which is it Ballistics are no skill or Missiles are.

I don't use Missiles to much any more, but I sure as heck am not going to insult someone for adding 30+ damage to a target I'm trying to take out. Whether he's 200 meters away or 700.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 May 2015 - 10:11 AM, said:

In a good natured way yes.
They get bitched about for having a cush job... Until its time for our fat to be pulled out of the fire. Then its a different story.

Unless it goes full Murphy's Law and the artillery falls short -.-

[Eider]

AEgg, on 30 May 2015 - 10:12 AM, said:

You can safelty hide behind a mountain with lasers or ballistics too. You aren't any less useless than doing it with LRMs. The topic is why LRMS are hard to use Effectively, not hard to equip and be useless with. You can be useless with anything.

You can hide behind them sure, but you cant shoot. Mountain gets in the way.. see the issue? Oh and lrms can shoot behind mountains and still maintain their 'accuracy' trust me you people arent the only ones who have used them. There is no magic or secret, they arent hard to use. At most you just look up to make sure they have the right curve for going up.

Edited by Eider, 30 May 2015 - 10:16 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Thus, people just bring lasers, because lasers are easymode.

I'm not making some backhanded attack here. At competitive levels of play, you use what's most effective, as well as you can. But don't mistake that with "what you use is hardest to use". It's exactly the opposite. Using the easy-mode weapon doesn't make the pilot less skilled - hell, it makes him smart. Making things needlessly difficult for yourself isn't productive. Why manage tag/narc/ecm/radar derp/etc if you can accomplish more with way less work.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 30 May 2015 - 10:13 AM, said:

Unless it goes full Murphy's Law and the artillery falls short -.-

That's why units should never be on the G-T line of their supporting batteries.

[Wintersdark]

Eider, on 30 May 2015 - 10:14 AM, said:

You can hide behind them sure, but you cant shoot. Mountain gets in the way.. see the issue? Oh and lrms can shoot behind mountains and still maintain their 'accuracy' trust me you people arent the only ones who have used them. There is no magic or secret, they arent hard to use. At most you just look up to make sure they have the right curve for going up.

Peek, fire, back in cover. You expose a fraction of your chassis, fire, and are back behind the mountain. If you can use LRM's effectively just getting a lock and firing, you're at an embarassing low Elo bracket.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 30 May 2015 - 10:13 AM, said:

Unless it goes full Murphy's Law and the artillery falls short -.-

That only happened to me once! Don't blame my team for it!

[Gut]

Wintersdark, on 30 May 2015 - 10:12 AM, said:

No, but at those levels as you well know those other people aren't staying exposed long enough for you to grab their target, get a lock, launch your missiles and have those missiles hit. No, if you want to use LRM's effectively at high levels of play (and it's not impossible), you need to have a hell of a lot of skill with it. You need to manage your exposure more, get a lock, move into cover and back out again before you lose lock in order to maintain it during the flight time.

It's objectively more difficult than peeking and poking then hiding again because of the on-going target requirement.

Only in a poke phase.

Which you intelligently wouldn't be part of as a lrm boat in a real game.

You'd become involved with the main engagement.

[Joseph Mallan]

Wintersdark, on 30 May 2015 - 10:18 AM, said:

Peek, fire, back in cover. You expose a fraction of your chassis, fire, and are back behind the mountain. If you can use LRM's effectively just getting a lock and firing, you're at an embarassing low Elo bracket.

If I read this right. My Target lock will fail before the missiles reach and no happy explosion. Ballistics are the best for peek a boo. and lasers are as bad or worse than missiles.

[Weeny Machine]

Wintersdark, on 30 May 2015 - 10:15 AM, said:

Thus, people just bring lasers, because lasers are easymode.

I'm not making some backhanded attack here. At competitive levels of play, you use what's most effective, as well as you can. But don't mistake that with "what you use is hardest to use". It's exactly the opposite. Using the easy-mode weapon doesn't make the pilot less skilled - hell, it makes him smart. Making things needlessly difficult for yourself isn't productive. Why manage tag/narc/ecm/radar derp/etc if you can accomplish more with way less work.

I am not sure if that makes them smart. When I see laser builds try to brawl my AC builds...well, guess how that ends

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 30 May 2015 - 10:08 AM, said:

Actually we do. We get called lazy ass POGs, REMFs, Fobbits, etc all time. But we have a working relationship with the infantry. They get into a bind or need a playing field leveled, they call up a fire mission which we respond to by ******* **** up with steel rain.

I was actually curious lol I wasnt in the military (a lot of my family were but the family thing is to not ask about it, either they were classified and/or they just saw bad **** - like my grandfather who was in several tours of both Korea and Vitenam) .

[AEgg]

Eider, on 30 May 2015 - 10:14 AM, said:

You can hide behind them sure, but you cant shoot. Mountain gets in the way.. see the issue? Oh and lrms can shoot behind mountains and still maintain their 'accuracy' trust me you people arent the only ones who have used them. There is no magic or secret, they arent hard to use. At most you just look up to make sure they have the right curve for going up.

Hence why I said effective. If you're hiding behind a mountain with LRMs you're being just as useless as an AFK. You're still a complete liability to your team contributing nothing, or nearly so.

Relying on locks from others is not effective use of LRMs, it's a waste of a player slot. If you don't have direct LOS or a dedicated spotter (impossible in the solo queue), then your LRMs won't hit, or at best, were a waste of tonnage because of how rarely they hit.

[Gut]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 30 May 2015 - 10:11 AM, said:

Interesting that you dont attribute that skill to the weapon where even if you aim right you still arent guaranteed a hit

Where "actual skill" is only applied to the weapon where if you aim correctly youre guaranteed a hit.

That seems off to me

Overcounterbalanced by the nature of lock on and position.

[Eider]

Wintersdark, on 30 May 2015 - 10:18 AM, said:

Peek, fire, back in cover. You expose a fraction of your chassis, fire, and are back behind the mountain. If you can use LRM's effectively just getting a lock and firing, you're at an embarassing low Elo bracket.

Once again people pretending lrms are hard to use. Fact is the whole tag thing? someone else is likely doing the work for you. How to make lrms easier for you to use? Beacon/tag/module for keeping locks on longer. Its not rocket science and please explain how having to peek is less difficult than simply just firing? Yes there are those of us that come fully prepared and know to hit cover to avoid the rain and carry radar dep. That stuff can be countered too. Press R.. fire missiles.. press r.. fire missiles.. two step process no need to peek or dodge or even think.

Oh and much as i think its lame, not really a waste of a slot. You can suppress and keep doing damage until you are forced to use your lasers and actually play.

Edited by Eider, 30 May 2015 - 10:27 AM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Eider, on 30 May 2015 - 10:14 AM, said:

Oh and lrms can shoot behind mountains and still maintain their 'accuracy' trust me you people arent the only ones who have used them.

So what happens when you lose the lock? Because for me that means I missed