384 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Seriously? Dude nothing is hard to use in this game. the player base has seen to that.

[Johny Rocket]

Wintersdark, on 30 May 2015 - 10:18 AM, said:

Peek, fire, back in cover. You expose a fraction of your chassis, fire, and are back behind the mountain. If you can use LRM's effectively just getting a lock and firing, you're at an embarassing low Elo bracket.

Your assumption is that the lrms stay in the back and are slow. Some people play fast lrm mechs and will work you out of cover and share you with the heavy boat in the back.

My Griff 2N and KTO 18 both excel at this. I love rock poppers, they think they are safe so stay behind the same rock.

[Eider]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 30 May 2015 - 10:31 AM, said:

So what happens when you lose the lock? Because for me that means I missed

That is why you buy the lock on module keeps lock on for about 3 seconds, less if they have radar derp. But also there is always a few mechs not blanketed etc, its just never been an issue. And if you got the skill believe it or not you can manually aim.
Oh and dont forget consumables, lots of people forget you can drop those and see through ecm. Good teams shoot them down fast, but its already agreed those are rare.
Oh and dont forget bap and cc that allow for shorter lock on times and if you really want to boat there are some with a range of 1200 or so by default.. again.. not hard.

Edited by Eider, 30 May 2015 - 10:40 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Eider, on 30 May 2015 - 10:26 AM, said:

Once again people pretending lrms are hard to use. Fact is the whole tag thing? someone else is likely doing the work for you. How to make lrms easier for you to use? Beacon/tag/module for keeping locks on longer. Its not rocket science and please explain how having to peek is less difficult than simply just firing? Yes there are those of us that come fully prepared and know to hit cover to avoid the rain and carry radar dep. That stuff can be countered too. Press R.. fire missiles.. press r.. fire missiles.. two step process no need to peek or dodge or even think.

Oh and much as i think its lame, not really a waste of a slot. You can suppress and keep doing damage until you are forced to use your lasers and actually play.

LRM's:

Wait till enemy exposes themselves to your team, press R to target them. Wait for missile lock. Hope lock is not interrupted or slowed by every-present ECM available on MANY mechs). Fire missiles. Remain pointed at target, hope target doesn't move into cover the moment he sees "incoming missiles" given he'll have upwards of SEVEN SECONDS of flight time to react. Incidentally, this means you can fire at a player, and while missiles are inbound he has enough time to turn, fire lasers/ballistics/etc back at you, and[b] move to cover before he is hit.

If you can sit in the back doing this from cover effectively, it's because [b]you are playing against bad players. That's all there is to it. Hope you enjoy your comfortable spot in the underhive.

Tractor Joe, on 30 May 2015 - 10:35 AM, said:

Your assumption is that the lrms stay in the back and are slow. Some people play fast lrm mechs and will work you out of cover and share you with the heavy boat in the back.

My Griff 2N and KTO 18 both excel at this. I love rock poppers, they think they are safe so stay behind the same rock.

Please read the thread, I'm not saying what you think I'm saying.

[Eider]

Wintersdark, on 30 May 2015 - 10:41 AM, said:

LRM's:

Wait till enemy exposes themselves to your team, press R to target them. Wait for missile lock. Hope lock is not interrupted or slowed by every-present ECM available on MANY mechs). Fire missiles. Remain pointed at target, hope target doesn't move into cover the moment he sees "incoming missiles" given he'll have upwards of SEVEN SECONDS of flight time to react. Incidentally, this means you can fire at a player, and while missiles are inbound he has enough time to turn, fire lasers/ballistics/etc back at you, and move to cover before he is hit.

[b]If you can sit in the back doing this from cover effectively, it's because [b]you are playing against bad players. That's all there is to it. Hope you enjoy your comfortable spot in the underhive.


Please read the thread, I'm not saying what you think I'm saying.

Cool story bro.. why is he shooting at you? you dont need to expose yourself as an lrm boat.. bad boat is bad. Also keep trying to say they are hard to use when it just takes 2 buttons and i already told you how to improve on that behind cover? At the least you should not be a frontline mech and your buddies should easily be suppressing and firing at them. Also you prove you are a bad player.. a true lrm player would have lasers to pew back with.

Edited by Eider, 30 May 2015 - 10:43 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 May 2015 - 10:32 AM, said:

Seriously? Dude nothing is hard to use in this game. the player base has seen to that.

Try using LRM's effectively vs. a team with 4 ECM mechs and come back and say that again

Eider, on 30 May 2015 - 10:42 AM, said:

Cool story bro.. why is he shooting at you? you dont need to expose yourself as an lrm boat.. bad boat is bad.

There is if you don't have people holding locks long enough for you to do all that, and at non-scrub-tier play, it's EXTREMELY hard to hold locks that long what with radar derp and people not being stupid and standing in the open.

If you don't expose yourself - don't have LOS - you rely entirely upon your teammates holding locks long enough for the missiles to hit, cannot use Artemis, etc.

LRM's are basically impossible to use effectively without exposing yourself or playing in an organized group with dedicated spotters, unless (again) your opponents are laughably bad and just standing in the open.

Eider, on 30 May 2015 - 10:26 AM, said:

Once again people pretending lrms are hard to use. Fact is the whole tag thing? someone else is likely doing the work for you. How to make lrms easier for you to use? Beacon/tag/module for keeping locks on longer. Its not rocket science and please explain how having to peek is less difficult than simply just firing? Yes there are those of us that come fully prepared and know to hit cover to avoid the rain and carry radar dep. That stuff can be countered too. Press R.. fire missiles.. press r.. fire missiles.. two step process no need to peek or dodge or even think.

Oh and much as i think its lame, not really a waste of a slot. You can suppress and keep doing damage until you are forced to use your lasers and actually play.

As I said earlier: If LRM's are easy for you to use, and you can just stand behind a mountain and lob LRM's with effectiveness, it's not because LRM's are easymode it's because your opponents are extremely bad. Welcome to Elo!

[IraqiWalker]

Eider, on 30 May 2015 - 10:26 AM, said:

Once again people pretending lrms are hard to use. Fact is the whole tag thing? someone else is likely doing the work for you. How to make lrms easier for you to use? Beacon/tag/module for keeping locks on longer. Its not rocket science and please explain how having to peek is less difficult than simply just firing? Yes there are those of us that come fully prepared and know to hit cover to avoid the rain and carry radar dep. That stuff can be countered too. Press R.. fire missiles.. press r.. fire missiles.. two step process no need to peek or dodge or even think.

Oh and much as i think its lame, not really a waste of a slot. You can suppress and keep doing damage until you are forced to use your lasers and actually play.

From another thread

I said:

I'm sorry, have you ever played an LRM boat right?

You really don't know what you're talking about here. LRM boats actually require the most knowledge of the map, mech builds, and positioning. This is coming from someone that ran them in organized 12v12s (For the record, I've only ever owned 1 real LRM boat, a BLR-1S that I am converting into an XL 400 SRM brawler).

To be a successful LRM boat, you need to know where you are, where your enemy is, and what terrain obstacles are between you and them. Since you want to make sure that your salvo hits them, since window lickers like you complained so much about LRMs you had to have a warning given to you the second the LRMs are launched.

LRMs also had their projectile speed reduced, on account of window lickers who with a full 5 second warning, still didn't comprehend the concept of cover.

Buddy, to do LRMs you needed more map awareness than literally any other weapon in the game. It is the hardest weapon to make work right, and the easiest to dodge, and we still get idiots who think LRMs are OP, and only noobs use them.

They are new player friendly, since they allow a player to use them from a somewhat safe distance, but let me give you an example of the difference between the two:

New player: I have a lock, I open fire, and hope to the omnissiah it hits. That is literally their entire MO.

Experienced player:

I have a team that is spotting 6 or so mechs:
01- Any mechs are tagged/Narc'd?
02- Which mech is the biggest threat
03- Is there intervening terrain that will stop my salvo, or make it less effective?
04- When I fire, what's the nearest cover for that pilot?
05- Should I fire in chain fire mode, or full alpha mode?
06- Am I suppressing an enemy here, or trying to kill them?
07- Any enemy ECM nearby?
08- Is the mech I'm targeting being hit by someone else?
09- Do I really need to launch more than 10 missiles for that kill?
10- Will my missiles reach the target before it's dead/behind cover/ECM?

If my spotter is being attacked, then the highest priority mech on the board becomes the one trying to kill the spotter. If there's ECM nearby, then I should reposition, or look for a better target.

Then of course there's the matter of ranges:

I should never fire LRMs at anyone beyond 800 meters, EVER.
If I want my missiles to arc high above cover I need to move to within 500 meters, or less, to give them the high arc.
If I want my missiles to have a lower arc, I need to move closer.

Not to mention that the LRM boat pilot needs to have full knowledge of what the enemy has equipped, for best threat assessment.

An LRM boat player that knows what they're doing is playing chess, while you're playing tic tac toe in your direct fire mech.

So this comes with the full weight of my knowledge, experience, and consideration that you've been in this game longer than I have: Learn to play.

So while your direct fire mech only has to worry about which mechs are in it's firing line for target priority. A proper LRM boat will have a much bigger picture to look at, since they are seeing three or more conflict locations at once, and have to distribute their firepower accordingly.

It's a micro vs. macro thing.

Direct fire is all about Micro, and what's in front of you. While LRM usage is all about Macro, and what the general state of the battlefield looks like.


My proudest moment in that 1S was a match in river city, months ago, where the enemy team thought we had a full LRM lance. It was just my one BLR 1S, I was firing on multiple targets, focusing three simultaneously, that held the highest priority in three different locations.

EDIT: The insults in that post are not aimed at you.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 30 May 2015 - 10:58 AM.

[Eider]

Wintersdark, on 30 May 2015 - 10:46 AM, said:

Try using LRM's effectively vs. a team with 4 ECM mechs and come back and say that again


There is if you don't have people holding locks long enough for you to do all that, and at non-scrub-tier play, it's EXTREMELY hard to hold locks that long what with radar derp and people not being stupid and standing in the open.

If you don't expose yourself - don't have LOS - you rely entirely upon your teammates holding locks long enough for the missiles to hit, cannot use Artemis, etc.

LRM's are basically impossible to use effectively without exposing yourself or playing in an organized group with dedicated spotters, unless (again) your opponents are laughably bad and just standing in the open.





As I said earlier: If LRM's are easy for you to use, and you can just stand behind a mountain and lob LRM's with effectiveness, it's not because LRM's are easymode it's because your opponents are extremely bad. Welcome to Elo!

Yea its not like anything changes when not shooting behind a mountain, such hard mode. You have to uhm press R with skill like when behind a mountain and shout wooooh! everytime you hit fire weapon.

[IraqiWalker]

Eider, on 30 May 2015 - 10:50 AM, said:

Yea its not like anything changes when not shooting behind a mountain, such hard mode. You have to uhm press R with skill like when behind a mountain and shout wooooh! everytime you hit fire weapon.

If that's all it takes to make LRMs work. Direct fire weapons require even less skill, since you don't even need to press R to make them work.

If you're going for absurdist arguments, I really recommend ending this discussion line.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 30 May 2015 - 10:58 AM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Gotta start this laservomit thing. I was just in a Warhawk and got popped out on for a quarter second, one mech cored my CT to red.

1/4 sec of exposure, not even a full shot.

Cant do THAT with missiles lol

[Eider]

IraqiWalker, on 30 May 2015 - 10:57 AM, said:

If that's all it takes to make LRMs work. Direct fire weapons require even less skill, since you don't even need to press R to make them work.

If you're going for absurdist arguments, I really recommend ending this discussion line.

As people have mentioned several times. Fact is that is all that is needed and can be done from safety. Compared to lasers where, you may have examples of them hitting you hard. Fail to explain that yes.. that person likely also got shot. You can missile someone to death from across the map and i have done so myself, even explained how to easily counter some of the current ecm meta. Yes discussion should end, i cant imagine how some keep claiming they are hard to use when they can be fired while exposing nothing.

Oh and as a note, if you got cored from laser vomit definitely doing it wrong. Twist a bit more, also more than likely you got hit with gauss as thats pretty meta atm.

Edited by Eider, 30 May 2015 - 11:05 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Eider, on 30 May 2015 - 10:50 AM, said:

Yea its not like anything changes when not shooting behind a mountain, such hard mode. You have to uhm press R with skill like when behind a mountain and shout wooooh! everytime you hit fire weapon.

You still miss cause Missiles don't fly over a mountain to good unless you are over half way up the side.

[Eider]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 May 2015 - 11:04 AM, said:

You still miss cause Missiles don't fly over a mountain to good unless you are over half way up the side.

Not sure if serious or never used missiles. They most certainly do.

[Joseph Mallan]

Eider, on 30 May 2015 - 11:04 AM, said:

As people have mentioned several times. Fact is that is all that is needed and can be done from safety. Compared to lasers where, you may have examples of them hitting you hard. Fail to explain that yes.. that person likely also got shot. You can missile someone to death from across the map and i have done so myself, even explained how to easily counter some of the current ecm meta. Yes discussion should end, i cant imagine how some keep claiming they are hard to use when they can be fired while exposing nothing.

Oh and as a note, if you got cored from laser vomit definitely doing it wrong. Twist a bit more, also more than likely you got hit with gauss as thats pretty meta atm.

It is a weapon meant to be used at range, and allow indirect fire. But you can't seem to accept that. It misses more than any other weapon in the game, does the least amount of damage cause it misses so much, but CAN hit you if a team mate is looking at you.

Eider, on 30 May 2015 - 11:06 AM, said:

Not sure if serious or never used missiles. They most certainly do.

Use missiles watch em hit the mountain. more often that go over it. Serious.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

So I decided to try the laser spew... I got dropped on river city night. I hate that map cause I think Im the only one who doesnt cheat and use some sort of gamma correction program. Thats what it feels like anyways, I seem to be the only one who cant shoot past the ability to see the target -.-

[IraqiWalker]

Eider, on 30 May 2015 - 11:04 AM, said:

As people have mentioned several times. Fact is that is all that is needed and can be done from safety. Compared to lasers where, you may have examples of them hitting you hard. Fail to explain that yes.. that person likely also got shot. You can missile someone to death from across the map and i have done so myself, even explained how to easily counter some of the current ecm meta. Yes discussion should end, i cant imagine how some keep claiming they are hard to use when they can be fired while exposing nothing.

Oh and as a note, if you got cored from laser vomit definitely doing it wrong. Twist a bit more, also more than likely you got hit with gauss as thats pretty meta atm.

I don't think you seem to comprehend the following:
1- Missiles are a long range weapon, designed mostly for indirect fire support

2- They are easy to use. HARD to use RIGHT.

Any idiot can use LRMs, but to use them right, you need proper skill. Here, you might want to actually read this:

Spoiler

Eider, on 30 May 2015 - 10:26 AM, said:

Once again people pretending lrms are hard to use. Fact is the whole tag thing? someone else is likely doing the work for you. How to make lrms easier for you to use? Beacon/tag/module for keeping locks on longer. Its not rocket science and please explain how having to peek is less difficult than simply just firing? Yes there are those of us that come fully prepared and know to hit cover to avoid the rain and carry radar dep. That stuff can be countered too. Press R.. fire missiles.. press r.. fire missiles.. two step process no need to peek or dodge or even think.

Oh and much as i think its lame, not really a waste of a slot. You can suppress and keep doing damage until you are forced to use your lasers and actually play.

From another thread

I said:

I'm sorry, have you ever played an LRM boat right?

You really don't know what you're talking about here. LRM boats actually require the most knowledge of the map, mech builds, and positioning. This is coming from someone that ran them in organized 12v12s (For the record, I've only ever owned 1 real LRM boat, a BLR-1S that I am converting into an XL 400 SRM brawler).

To be a successful LRM boat, you need to know where you are, where your enemy is, and what terrain obstacles are between you and them. Since you want to make sure that your salvo hits them, since window lickers like you complained so much about LRMs you had to have a warning given to you the second the LRMs are launched.

LRMs also had their projectile speed reduced, on account of window lickers who with a full 5 second warning, still didn't comprehend the concept of cover.

Buddy, to do LRMs you needed more map awareness than literally any other weapon in the game. It is the hardest weapon to make work right, and the easiest to dodge, and we still get idiots who think LRMs are OP, and only noobs use them.

They are new player friendly, since they allow a player to use them from a somewhat safe distance, but let me give you an example of the difference between the two:

New player: I have a lock, I open fire, and hope to the omnissiah it hits. That is literally their entire MO.

Experienced player:

I have a team that is spotting 6 or so mechs:
01- Any mechs are tagged/Narc'd?
02- Which mech is the biggest threat
03- Is there intervening terrain that will stop my salvo, or make it less effective?
04- When I fire, what's the nearest cover for that pilot?
05- Should I fire in chain fire mode, or full alpha mode?
06- Am I suppressing an enemy here, or trying to kill them?
07- Any enemy ECM nearby?
08- Is the mech I'm targeting being hit by someone else?
09- Do I really need to launch more than 10 missiles for that kill?
10- Will my missiles reach the target before it's dead/behind cover/ECM?

If my spotter is being attacked, then the highest priority mech on the board becomes the one trying to kill the spotter. If there's ECM nearby, then I should reposition, or look for a better target.

Then of course there's the matter of ranges:

I should never fire LRMs at anyone beyond 800 meters, EVER.
If I want my missiles to arc high above cover I need to move to within 500 meters, or less, to give them the high arc.
If I want my missiles to have a lower arc, I need to move closer.

Not to mention that the LRM boat pilot needs to have full knowledge of what the enemy has equipped, for best threat assessment.

An LRM boat player that knows what they're doing is playing chess, while you're playing tic tac toe in your direct fire mech.

So this comes with the full weight of my knowledge, experience, and consideration that you've been in this game longer than I have: Learn to play.

So while your direct fire mech only has to worry about which mechs are in it's firing line for target priority. A proper LRM boat will have a much bigger picture to look at, since they are seeing three or more conflict locations at once, and have to distribute their firepower accordingly.

It's a micro vs. macro thing.

Direct fire is all about Micro, and what's in front of you. While LRM usage is all about Macro, and what the general state of the battlefield looks like.


My proudest moment in that 1S was a match in river city, months ago, where the enemy team thought we had a full LRM lance. It was just my one BLR 1S, I was firing on multiple targets, focusing three simultaneously, that held the highest priority in three different locations.

EDIT: The insults in that post are not aimed at you.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Eider, on 30 May 2015 - 11:04 AM, said:

You can missile someone to death from across the map and i have done so myself, even explained how to easily counter some of the current ecm meta.

Please, show some video of you killing ppl from all the way across the map with LRMs. In my experience this is extremely hard to do when you lose the lock (and thats 700-1000 range, which most maps are larger than).

IraqiWalker, on 30 May 2015 - 11:13 AM, said:

I don't think you seem to comprehend the following:
1- Missiles are a long range weapon, designed mostly for indirect fire support

2- They are easy to use. HARD to use RIGHT.

Any idiot can use LRMs, but to use them right, you need proper skill. Here, you might want to actually read this:

Spoiler

From another thread




So while your direct fire mech only has to worry about which mechs are in it's firing line for target priority. A proper LRM boat will have a much bigger picture to look at, since they are seeing three or more conflict locations at once, and have to distribute their firepower accordingly.

It's a micro vs. macro thing.

Direct fire is all about Micro, and what's in front of you. While LRM usage is all about Macro, and what the general state of the battlefield looks like.


My proudest moment in that 1S was a match in river city, months ago, where the enemy team thought we had a full LRM lance. It was just my one BLR 1S, I was firing on multiple targets, focusing three simultaneously, that held the highest priority in three different locations.

EDIT: The insults in that post are not aimed at you.

QFT

[Bishop Steiner]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 30 May 2015 - 10:31 AM, said:

So what happens when you lose the lock? Because for me that means I missed

I guess when you use a steering wheel ducking for cover is harder?

Wintersdark, on 30 May 2015 - 10:46 AM, said:

Try using LRM's effectively vs. a team with 4 ECM mechs and come back and say that again


There is if you don't have people holding locks long enough for you to do all that, and at non-scrub-tier play, it's EXTREMELY hard to hold locks that long what with radar derp and people not being stupid and standing in the open.

If you don't expose yourself - don't have LOS - you rely entirely upon your teammates holding locks long enough for the missiles to hit, cannot use Artemis, etc.

LRM's are basically impossible to use effectively without exposing yourself or playing in an organized group with dedicated spotters, unless (again) your opponents are laughably bad and just standing in the open.





As I said earlier: If LRM's are easy for you to use, and you can just stand behind a mountain and lob LRM's with effectiveness, it's not because LRM's are easymode it's because your opponents are extremely bad. Welcome to Elo!

closed mind is closed,. and why they never get out of the underhive.

[Wintersdark]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 30 May 2015 - 11:17 AM, said:

Please, show some video of you killing ppl from all the way across the map with LRMs. In my experience this is extremely hard to do when you lose the lock (and thats 700-1000 range, which most maps are larger than).
QFT

in thousands of drops, I've died "legitimately"(that is, opposed to a random small volley that finished me off when I was already badly damaged and near death from other weapons) to LRM's only a handful of times. A couple dozen as most.

Of those times, more than half have been because I made a stupid mistake and assumed there would be no/few LRM's and moved slowly across an open area that my opponents couldn't bring serious direct fire to early in the match. My bad for making a poor guess and moving too far from cover on that assumption. The reality is that at long ranges, dying to LRM's is horribly embarrassing because they are so bloody easy to negate.

The remaining deaths have been due to aggressive typically medium LRM skirmishers cleverly ducking in and out of covet to maintain their locks while endlessly raining LRM's on me. Pretty skilled play, ultimately, and still: if I had radar deep of ecm, most of those few deaths wouldn't have happened.

[Eider]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 30 May 2015 - 11:17 AM, said:

Please, show some video of you killing ppl from all the way across the map with LRMs. In my experience this is extremely hard to do when you lose the lock (and thats 700-1000 range, which most maps are larger than).



QFT

Play any actual game other than forum warrior and you will see all you need.