I'm looking for my first Assault Mechs to master. After some tests and research, I ended up deciding between BNC and KGC. I prefer energy/ballistic mixed builds, so I'm not concerned about BNC's missing missile hard points (would'nt use those in the KGC).
What is your opinion, or what are your pro's and con's on this comparison? Thx!
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Bnc Vs. Kgc: What Would You Choose?
Started by E l e n d i l, May 30 2015 11:32 AM
16 replies to this topic
#2
Posted 30 May 2015 - 11:47 AM
A good and interesting comparison. The KGC has excellent energy and missile hard points being quite high up, but its ballistics suffer being low and wide. The KGC has more and better ballistic options however (dual gauss, dual ac20, quad (u)ac5, etcetc) but the BNC has better hitboxes, shield arms, and generally good hard point placement (lots of high shoulder mounts.
The king crab has awesome pinchers. No utility, but awesome.
I personally think the Banshee is actually a better mech, but either machine is pretty good. Which you'd use depends largely on what sorts of builds you are interested in. The Banshee's are limited to 1B on the S and 4B on the E, but those 4E are all in one side torso so one big ballistic or a couple smaller ones.
Also, the Banshee is somewhat more survivable, while the KGC can deliver its ballistic load out more accurately due to its arms - it can hit elevated targets that the banshee cannot.
The king crab has awesome pinchers. No utility, but awesome.
I personally think the Banshee is actually a better mech, but either machine is pretty good. Which you'd use depends largely on what sorts of builds you are interested in. The Banshee's are limited to 1B on the S and 4B on the E, but those 4E are all in one side torso so one big ballistic or a couple smaller ones.
Also, the Banshee is somewhat more survivable, while the KGC can deliver its ballistic load out more accurately due to its arms - it can hit elevated targets that the banshee cannot.
Edited by Wintersdark, 01 June 2015 - 04:52 PM.
#3
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Posted 30 May 2015 - 12:06 PM
KGC looks better, therefore it has to be chosen over the BNC.
KGC with a large engine also torso twists delightfully fast.
KGC with a large engine also torso twists delightfully fast.
#4
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- Little Helper
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Posted 30 May 2015 - 12:10 PM
BNC is more versatile. The missile hardpoints are moderately useful on assaults for packing SRMs, but the KGC is relatively slow and they aren't really all that great at using missiles. Don't run LRM boat assaults. You can do that with a med/heavy and do a lot better with the increased mobility to get different shooting angles.
BNC can go ultra-wub with lots of pulse lasers on the 3M or serious ballistic with 3 AC5 on the 3E. BNC is a chassis I fear when I see it in my lights.
BNC can go ultra-wub with lots of pulse lasers on the 3M or serious ballistic with 3 AC5 on the 3E. BNC is a chassis I fear when I see it in my lights.
#5
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Posted 30 May 2015 - 01:16 PM
The King Crab is a gigantic target that gets stuck on terrain and has convergence issues. You can build any possible loadout on it though which is awesome.
I feel the Banshee is more viable in most situations.
You can try some of the lighter assaults. The Battlemaster, Stalker and post-quirk Awesome are all great.
I feel the Banshee is more viable in most situations.
You can try some of the lighter assaults. The Battlemaster, Stalker and post-quirk Awesome are all great.
Edited by Spheroid, 30 May 2015 - 01:18 PM.
#6
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- The Tip of the Spear
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Posted 30 May 2015 - 01:16 PM
I have mastered both... However the Banshee is usually a better choice on offense if you can manage it's heat from any use of the lasers it typically mounts. The King Crab however is often better at defense, if you can funnel the enemy into a specific spot to reduce incoming damage you will usually win.
The most ballistic heavy load of the Banshee runs 3xAC5s with usually a mix of medium lasers as backup and needs to stay near cover a bit more as mixing the two quickly leads to overheating. The King Crab with it's dual gauss or 4xUAC5 loads can quickly rip enemies to pieces and have little need for the energy weapons unless you happen to run out of ammo. I've run both in CW for 1000+ damage that mech (I think I hit around 1500 damage and ran out of ammo one match with my KC).
Both btw get tripped up by terrain and the Banshee is as tall as the Atlas with no real ability to look down, so I've walked over friendly lights because I couldn't even tell they were there (Panthers, Spiders, Locusts, Ravens, etc). On the other hand the King Crab has good ability to fire down below it and can actually look and see obstructions that may trip it up.
I also own Battlemasters and Stalkers (among others), both of which can play much more like a heavy, and I'd take both as a first assault over a KC or Banshee.
The most ballistic heavy load of the Banshee runs 3xAC5s with usually a mix of medium lasers as backup and needs to stay near cover a bit more as mixing the two quickly leads to overheating. The King Crab with it's dual gauss or 4xUAC5 loads can quickly rip enemies to pieces and have little need for the energy weapons unless you happen to run out of ammo. I've run both in CW for 1000+ damage that mech (I think I hit around 1500 damage and ran out of ammo one match with my KC).
Both btw get tripped up by terrain and the Banshee is as tall as the Atlas with no real ability to look down, so I've walked over friendly lights because I couldn't even tell they were there (Panthers, Spiders, Locusts, Ravens, etc). On the other hand the King Crab has good ability to fire down below it and can actually look and see obstructions that may trip it up.
I also own Battlemasters and Stalkers (among others), both of which can play much more like a heavy, and I'd take both as a first assault over a KC or Banshee.
Edited by Shadey99, 30 May 2015 - 01:20 PM.
#7
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- Philanthropist
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Posted 01 June 2015 - 03:10 PM
Both are excellent mechs.
1) The King Crab has more ballistic options and a solid pile of high mounted weapon points. It is also short - for better or for worse - for a 100 tonner. It is, however, wide, which makes it somewhat easy to hit, and the convergence is less than steller on the arm weapons. You'll also find yourself hitting a lot of rocks and things. Still, once placed in a solid location, the King Crab will pretty much wreck anything that gets in its sites.
2) The Banshee is more energy dependent overall, though the one ballistic variant can give the Crab a run for its money. Banshees are tall, have some high-mounted weapons, and have better weapon convergence and ease of placing shots on target. The near total lack of arm weapons, however, leaves them open to fast moving mechs up close. They also like to fight on flat terrain. Banshees tend to run larger engines than Crabs since they are not as tempted to devote a billion tons to piles of guns or other weapons. This extra mobility, while not unique to the chassis, can be helpful since a Banshee can present a faster than expected threat for a mech of its tonnage. Finally, the Banshee is one of the most durable mechs in the game, IMHO, though the Crab is no slouch either.
Which one is better? I went with the Banshee because I like the concept of a bit more speed and the solid weapon convergence. The price I paid was fewer interesting weapon options since the King Crabs are probably the most diverse weapon carrier available in the IS. They have no variants that lack options, in particular.
1) The King Crab has more ballistic options and a solid pile of high mounted weapon points. It is also short - for better or for worse - for a 100 tonner. It is, however, wide, which makes it somewhat easy to hit, and the convergence is less than steller on the arm weapons. You'll also find yourself hitting a lot of rocks and things. Still, once placed in a solid location, the King Crab will pretty much wreck anything that gets in its sites.
2) The Banshee is more energy dependent overall, though the one ballistic variant can give the Crab a run for its money. Banshees are tall, have some high-mounted weapons, and have better weapon convergence and ease of placing shots on target. The near total lack of arm weapons, however, leaves them open to fast moving mechs up close. They also like to fight on flat terrain. Banshees tend to run larger engines than Crabs since they are not as tempted to devote a billion tons to piles of guns or other weapons. This extra mobility, while not unique to the chassis, can be helpful since a Banshee can present a faster than expected threat for a mech of its tonnage. Finally, the Banshee is one of the most durable mechs in the game, IMHO, though the Crab is no slouch either.
Which one is better? I went with the Banshee because I like the concept of a bit more speed and the solid weapon convergence. The price I paid was fewer interesting weapon options since the King Crabs are probably the most diverse weapon carrier available in the IS. They have no variants that lack options, in particular.
#8
Posted 01 June 2015 - 04:22 PM
King Crab every time. Has hardpoints for days, it looks cool, it's torso twist range is surprisingly wide for a 100 ton assault (can almost turn 180 degrees w/ x2 basics), it can tank extremely well due to speedy torso twist speeds, it looks cool, and it's got the clamps. Did I mention it looks cool?
#9
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- Rage
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Posted 01 June 2015 - 05:06 PM
My 0.02, I feel like the kgc goes down faster than the bnc, probably due to the larger CT on the kgc.
That side, my KGC-000(L) is my best mech for kdr and damage per match. It is a beast.
That side, my KGC-000(L) is my best mech for kdr and damage per match. It is a beast.
#10
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- Shredder
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Posted 01 June 2015 - 05:13 PM
On a scale of one to three:
PROS
Banshee
FIREPOWER: Very good, but often requires a high investment in heat dissipation due to most of the hardpoints being energy - 3
HEAT: See above - 1
DURABILITY: Good to very good; twisting is very effective in this chassis, and your arms are empty in both the -3E and -3M variants, giving you some extra shielding options - 3
AGILITY - nothing amazing, but offset by the option to put in engines rated up to 400 - 2
King Crab
FIREPOWER - Excellent. Nothing else to say here, really. KGC brings the (ballistic) pain like no other 'Mech in the game can. One of my favorite loadouts is a double AC/5, double AC/2, and double UAC/5. Yeah, the DWF can do such things, but only with Clan broken-up multi-shell ACs. KGC can do the same stuff, pinpoint. - 3
HEAT - Such a ballistic-heavy 'Mech makes heat less of a concern. Yeah, double AC/20 can be very hot - but you're in a 100-ton 'Mech. The next 'Mech down that can run double AC/20 is the Jager, and it has 35 tons less to devote to that loadout. In a KGC, you can do double AC/20 AND run tons of ammo AND run tons of heatsinks AND run backup weapons. The only thing you lose out on is speed, and even that doesn't necessarily go down much. The only issue is, you have SO MANY HARDPOINTS that if you use them all, you WILL start to run a bit hot. Not horribly hot, mind, but a bit. So you do have to manage it. But using any one grouping/system at once? Easy-peasy! - 2
DURABILITY - And here is the one sole place where the KGC suffers. It is squishy, very much so. Your broad torso sections are so LRM-thirsty they make Stalkers feel like Spiders. Plus any incoming fire from anywhere above you will almost automatically hit your CT instead of your STs. Compounding both of these issues is the fact your arms are so low-set they hardly block any incoming fire at all, from the sides or elsewhere. Add this to the fact you will want an XL engine for ballistic-heavy builds and you force yourself into creating a vulnerability for bringing the 'Mech to its full potential(which honestly is they way it should be for all 'Mechs) - 1
AGILITY - Surprisingly good, especially for a 100-tonner. The 'Mech has a strong 25% boost to torso yaw speed, making it able to quickly snap from one target to the other, as well as helping to make the most out of its limited tankability. Combine this with the fact that your primary weapons are in the arms (which opens up a lot of XL options) as well as a movement archetype of LARGE (as opposed to the "HUGE" most assaults get) and you get a 'Mech which can supplement its incredible firepower with very, very good mobility. - 3
So, what's the end tally? Well, using this scoring system... both 'Mechs get a final score of nine points, out of a possible twelve! And really, this feels like a pretty solid summation of their rank within the IS stables. Maybe more like 10/12. Both 'Mechs offer some great options, but they differ from each other quite a bit too. So neither is truly superior, just different.
ANOTHER VERSION
KGC provides:
fantastic FIREPOWER and AGILITY - 5/5, 5/5
moderate HEAT MANAGEMENT - 3/5
but sacrifices a lot of DURABILITY - 1/5
BNC provides:
very good DURABILITY and FIREPOWER - 4/5, 4/5
good AGILITY(although its agility benefits are slightly different from the KGC's, due to having few/no weapons in the arms and an ability to mount larger engines) - 4/5
and sacrifices some (but not a lot of) HEAT MANAGEMENT - 2/5
So, again... final score is equal (14/20) for both! What this means is that neither 'Mech is superior to the other, they just have different roles and fulfill them very well. It also shows that the KGC is more of a specialist and the BNC more of a generalist, which I've always found to be true. The KGC'sstrong points are really strong, but then again its weak points really are very weak. The BNC's strong points, on the other hand, are strong but not as way-out-there as the BNC's - and as a consequence, its weak points (heat, mainly, but agility too if devoting a lot of tonnage to weapons) are not nearly as affective to its overall performance, and can be almost eliminated if you so wish bvia Mechlab playing.
As to their usual roles in matches: King Crabs are great for holding certain positions. This applies both defensively (guarding an area, eliminating incursions quickly and unquestionably) and offensively (providing direct-fire support). One KGC variant also has four missile hardpoints to supplement the support role, if you so wish. They can also twist rapidly to engage multiple targets at once, and the ballistics being in the arms makes them able to engage at elevation gradients that BNCs can't. They also have missile options, which BNCs don't.
Banshees are great for being the centerpiece (not necessarily the lead) of a push/charge against an entrenched enemy position. They can also do some sneaky, behind-enemy-lines commando work due to their huge engine options. And they excel at weaving in out of cover, mitigating damage with their arms, and using their high weapon hardpoints to do some peeking. A brawling Banshee in an urban environment is bad, bad news for his enemies.
TL;DR
In the end? Personally, I'd give the edge to the Banshee, But it's a very slight edge. I love both of the chassis! If you want a specialist, go KGC. If you want a 'Mech that can do lots of stuff well, get a BNC.
Hope this helps. I've been partaking of some rye whiskey, so there may have been a few details I forgot
PROS
Banshee
FIREPOWER: Very good, but often requires a high investment in heat dissipation due to most of the hardpoints being energy - 3
HEAT: See above - 1
DURABILITY: Good to very good; twisting is very effective in this chassis, and your arms are empty in both the -3E and -3M variants, giving you some extra shielding options - 3
AGILITY - nothing amazing, but offset by the option to put in engines rated up to 400 - 2
King Crab
FIREPOWER - Excellent. Nothing else to say here, really. KGC brings the (ballistic) pain like no other 'Mech in the game can. One of my favorite loadouts is a double AC/5, double AC/2, and double UAC/5. Yeah, the DWF can do such things, but only with Clan broken-up multi-shell ACs. KGC can do the same stuff, pinpoint. - 3
HEAT - Such a ballistic-heavy 'Mech makes heat less of a concern. Yeah, double AC/20 can be very hot - but you're in a 100-ton 'Mech. The next 'Mech down that can run double AC/20 is the Jager, and it has 35 tons less to devote to that loadout. In a KGC, you can do double AC/20 AND run tons of ammo AND run tons of heatsinks AND run backup weapons. The only thing you lose out on is speed, and even that doesn't necessarily go down much. The only issue is, you have SO MANY HARDPOINTS that if you use them all, you WILL start to run a bit hot. Not horribly hot, mind, but a bit. So you do have to manage it. But using any one grouping/system at once? Easy-peasy! - 2
DURABILITY - And here is the one sole place where the KGC suffers. It is squishy, very much so. Your broad torso sections are so LRM-thirsty they make Stalkers feel like Spiders. Plus any incoming fire from anywhere above you will almost automatically hit your CT instead of your STs. Compounding both of these issues is the fact your arms are so low-set they hardly block any incoming fire at all, from the sides or elsewhere. Add this to the fact you will want an XL engine for ballistic-heavy builds and you force yourself into creating a vulnerability for bringing the 'Mech to its full potential(which honestly is they way it should be for all 'Mechs) - 1
AGILITY - Surprisingly good, especially for a 100-tonner. The 'Mech has a strong 25% boost to torso yaw speed, making it able to quickly snap from one target to the other, as well as helping to make the most out of its limited tankability. Combine this with the fact that your primary weapons are in the arms (which opens up a lot of XL options) as well as a movement archetype of LARGE (as opposed to the "HUGE" most assaults get) and you get a 'Mech which can supplement its incredible firepower with very, very good mobility. - 3
So, what's the end tally? Well, using this scoring system... both 'Mechs get a final score of nine points, out of a possible twelve! And really, this feels like a pretty solid summation of their rank within the IS stables. Maybe more like 10/12. Both 'Mechs offer some great options, but they differ from each other quite a bit too. So neither is truly superior, just different.
ANOTHER VERSION
KGC provides:
fantastic FIREPOWER and AGILITY - 5/5, 5/5
moderate HEAT MANAGEMENT - 3/5
but sacrifices a lot of DURABILITY - 1/5
BNC provides:
very good DURABILITY and FIREPOWER - 4/5, 4/5
good AGILITY(although its agility benefits are slightly different from the KGC's, due to having few/no weapons in the arms and an ability to mount larger engines) - 4/5
and sacrifices some (but not a lot of) HEAT MANAGEMENT - 2/5
So, again... final score is equal (14/20) for both! What this means is that neither 'Mech is superior to the other, they just have different roles and fulfill them very well. It also shows that the KGC is more of a specialist and the BNC more of a generalist, which I've always found to be true. The KGC'sstrong points are really strong, but then again its weak points really are very weak. The BNC's strong points, on the other hand, are strong but not as way-out-there as the BNC's - and as a consequence, its weak points (heat, mainly, but agility too if devoting a lot of tonnage to weapons) are not nearly as affective to its overall performance, and can be almost eliminated if you so wish bvia Mechlab playing.
As to their usual roles in matches: King Crabs are great for holding certain positions. This applies both defensively (guarding an area, eliminating incursions quickly and unquestionably) and offensively (providing direct-fire support). One KGC variant also has four missile hardpoints to supplement the support role, if you so wish. They can also twist rapidly to engage multiple targets at once, and the ballistics being in the arms makes them able to engage at elevation gradients that BNCs can't. They also have missile options, which BNCs don't.
Banshees are great for being the centerpiece (not necessarily the lead) of a push/charge against an entrenched enemy position. They can also do some sneaky, behind-enemy-lines commando work due to their huge engine options. And they excel at weaving in out of cover, mitigating damage with their arms, and using their high weapon hardpoints to do some peeking. A brawling Banshee in an urban environment is bad, bad news for his enemies.
TL;DR
In the end? Personally, I'd give the edge to the Banshee, But it's a very slight edge. I love both of the chassis! If you want a specialist, go KGC. If you want a 'Mech that can do lots of stuff well, get a BNC.
Hope this helps. I've been partaking of some rye whiskey, so there may have been a few details I forgot
Edited by Bloodweaver, 01 June 2015 - 05:17 PM.
#12
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- The Boombox
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Posted 01 June 2015 - 05:40 PM
Crabs are nice.
Banshee is better.
Wubshee is king.
Banshee is better.
Wubshee is king.
#13
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- Big Brother
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Posted 09 June 2015 - 03:39 AM
A King Crab a day, keeps the Banshee away...
#14
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- 3 posts
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Posted 24 June 2015 - 11:42 AM
Thnkx a lot. I think I'm gonna try them both, starting with the BNC.
#15
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- Ace Of Spades
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Posted 25 June 2015 - 09:23 AM
The Atlas.
It's the manly man's mech, who isn't afraid of rocking a subpar mech and still wrecking faces.
Just like the Quickdraw.
It's the manly man's mech, who isn't afraid of rocking a subpar mech and still wrecking faces.
Just like the Quickdraw.
#16
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- Ace Of Spades
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Posted 25 June 2015 - 09:59 PM
Hey Elendil,
I started a pretty similar thread here and I ended up going with the Banshee as well. http://mwomercs.com/...e-or-king-crab/
The BNC-3M ended up being pretty much the tankiest, brawliest mech I own, the 3E is a bit messier but a ton of fun and a monster in the right hands (not mine). The 3S sucks. But I have fun with troll builds in it. It can still do well but just doesn't have the best quirks or the max engine size to compete with the other variants.
I started a pretty similar thread here and I ended up going with the Banshee as well. http://mwomercs.com/...e-or-king-crab/
The BNC-3M ended up being pretty much the tankiest, brawliest mech I own, the 3E is a bit messier but a ton of fun and a monster in the right hands (not mine). The 3S sucks. But I have fun with troll builds in it. It can still do well but just doesn't have the best quirks or the max engine size to compete with the other variants.
#17
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- Ace Of Spades
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Posted 21 July 2015 - 11:58 PM
Sewman, on 25 June 2015 - 09:59 PM, said:
Hey Elendil,
I started a pretty similar thread here and I ended up going with the Banshee as well. http://mwomercs.com/...e-or-king-crab/
The BNC-3M ended up being pretty much the tankiest, brawliest mech I own, the 3E is a bit messier but a ton of fun and a monster in the right hands (not mine). The 3S sucks. But I have fun with troll builds in it. It can still do well but just doesn't have the best quirks or the max engine size to compete with the other variants.
I started a pretty similar thread here and I ended up going with the Banshee as well. http://mwomercs.com/...e-or-king-crab/
The BNC-3M ended up being pretty much the tankiest, brawliest mech I own, the 3E is a bit messier but a ton of fun and a monster in the right hands (not mine). The 3S sucks. But I have fun with troll builds in it. It can still do well but just doesn't have the best quirks or the max engine size to compete with the other variants.
With the 3S just get an AC20 and some MLAs with a max standard. Great brawler, not as good as the 3M though.
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