89 replies to this topic

[CocoaJin]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 May 2015 - 10:16 PM, said:

engines wont give the JJs more ooomph. If 6 JJs don't launch you...... SMH

The higher run speed seems to help you a Spider-man up objects. I can't explain why, but the faster any of my jumping mechs run, the better they clear obstacles they can't just leap over.

Edited by CocoaJin, 30 May 2015 - 10:24 PM.

[Petard]

I don't own any, but they are a source of constant lol's to me when I see em on the field, they run like an old, old man with a bad back, wearing shoes 2 sizes too small.

[Bloodweaver]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 May 2015 - 10:16 PM, said:

engines wont give the JJs more ooomph. If 6 JJs don't launch you...... SMH

Didn't the last change to JJ performance tie their acceleration to engine size?

Not that JJs aren't pathetic in MWO regardless...

[1453 R]

In addition to a few thoughts in this thread, my experiences with the Grasshoppers is that they're pretty good in the scrum but can't hold up against a Summoner's range game. Which is sort of a 'durr' statement for any unquirked Sphere vs. Clan fight I suppose, but the two 'Mechs honestly felt quite similar to me, and experiences in the one tended to transfer to/bleed over into the other for me. Neither is remotely as bad as everyone says they are. I think if the Hopper had released before the Clans did, people would be thinking of it more as "the goddamned 70-ton Firestarter" than looking at it as a failed competitor to Claservomit.

[Bishop Steiner]

CocoaJin, on 30 May 2015 - 10:19 PM, said:

It'll jump you out of trouble if you 3-4. I was on Mining Colony, engaged a DWF. Once he turned to engage me, I used my agility to foul his shots and spread damage as I ran and jumped up a level so I could run on top of one of the tunnels, using those generator looking things on top for cover. I re-joined my team on the other side and then moved toward the DWF with the team to finish it off.

The thing is, if you want to JJ, then you have to commit to equipping JJs...you can't half ass it.

I find even with 6, it's unimpressive

[CocoaJin]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 May 2015 - 10:26 PM, said:

I find even with 6, it's unimpressive

Trust in the bigger engine...all I know it was night and day. I was scaling(not clearing) the cliff walls in Canyon.

I went to see what my build was, but I sold my main Grasshopper once I switched to the QuickDraw for my CW RPing deck.

My Resistance a Grasshopper still has 4 JJs though...and that sounds about right, 4-5 JJs

Edited by CocoaJin, 30 May 2015 - 10:34 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

well, tentatively have a maybe OK build on the 5N. a 320XL is the biggest I had laying around, so stuffed it, 4 JJs, Maxi Armor on it. The 2x PPC in the LA, 2x ML in the RA, and 3x ML in the STs. Fill the rest with as many DHS as I can cram.

Only one match in it....it still feels like a pig, but at least I find the PPCs add a level of requisite skill that keeps me from falling asleep in boredom the way pure laser vomit does.

[Bloodweaver]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 May 2015 - 10:40 PM, said:

well, tentatively have a maybe OK build on the 5N. a 320XL is the biggest I had laying around, so stuffed it, 4 JJs, Maxi Armor on it. The 2x PPC in the LA, 2x ML in the RA, and 3x ML in the STs. Fill the rest with as many DHS as I can cram.

Only one match in it....it still feels like a pig, but at least I find the PPCs add a level of requisite skill that keeps me from falling asleep in boredom the way pure laser vomit does.

You can use that second RT mount to put a (quirked) PPC at cockpit level.

Also, the GHR is the 'Mech that made me realize how different IS laser vomit is to Clan laser vomit. It's a lot more fast-paced, since you can't really find a safe peeking spot with 270-meter MLs. I just finished Mastering the BJ-1X, which also provided numerous adrenaline rushes. It's a world apart from cERML vomit - you move fast (modifiable engines) and you shoot fast(colder lasers + more powerful DHS). It's kind of the opposite, really.

Edited by Bloodweaver, 30 May 2015 - 10:48 PM.

[Juodas Varnas]

You probably find the Cataphract more agile than the Grasshopper, because for some unfathomable reason, it uses the medium movement archetype.
Which doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

I, personally, think that mechs that were renowned for their agility, like the Grasshopper and Quickdraw, should be the ones with movement archetypes of lower weight classes, but instead both of them have the large movement archetype, which is mostly used by 80 - 85 ton assault mechs.

[Bishop Steiner]

Bloodweaver, on 30 May 2015 - 10:44 PM, said:

You can use that second RT mount to put a (quirked) PPC at cockpit level.

and then I have to put my PPCs on separate fire circuits. It loses the elegance of simplicity, and the ability to use yaw, for marginal elevation advantages. If both could be so mounted it would be worth it. But to have on on the torso, and one on the arm? I don't use armlock, so I'll pass.

And I'm not much of a peeker, but when I do peek, having my left side (cockpit side) PPCs will serve well enough.

[CocoaJin]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 May 2015 - 10:40 PM, said:

well, tentatively have a maybe OK build on the 5N. a 320XL is the biggest I had laying around, so stuffed it, 4 JJs, Maxi Armor on it. The 2x PPC in the LA, 2x ML in the RA, and 3x ML in the STs. Fill the rest with as many DHS as I can cram.

Only one match in it....it still feels like a pig, but at least I find the PPCs add a level of requisite skill that keeps me from falling asleep in boredom the way pure laser vomit does.

High mount the PPCs, they are great stand-off weapons...especially if you are hill humping. You'll get off shots and people will never even see you. Poke early game and from unexpected locations made available because of your JJs. Once you go brawling, the low arm mounted MPLs won't be an issue.

...wait, that might have been my -H that I was high mounting in.

Edited by CocoaJin, 30 May 2015 - 11:05 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

CocoaJin, on 30 May 2015 - 11:02 PM, said:

High mount the PPCs, they are great stand-off weapons...especially if you are hill humping. You'll get off shots and people will never even see you. Poke early game and from unexpected locations made available because of your JJs. Once you go brawling, the low arm mounted MPLs won't be an issue.

you can only high mount 1, which thus negates their synergy, as I explained to Bloodweaver. It also limits your actual field of fire. With their crap projectile speed, I find it far easier to lead using the arm yaw.

Plus I find the lift glacial, meaning I would rather side poke with them then do the hindenberg lift to try to use them.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 30 May 2015 - 11:04 PM.

[Carrioncrows]

Also I find regular PPC's to be useless and ERPPC's to just be too much heat.

I dunno what it is, but only about 66% of my PPC shots that hit register dmg, (leaving about a third that just mysteriously do nothing) so even quirked ppc's I find to be a waste.

Sadly this is also why I haven't run my awesome's in forever.

I've found that any attempt to run ppc's these days is vastly inferior to the laser based weapons. Now that you can roll 3 larges without ghost heat there simply isn't a reason to bring ppc's if you don't have to.

Edited by Carrioncrows, 30 May 2015 - 11:06 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Carrioncrows, on 30 May 2015 - 11:04 PM, said:

Also I find regular PPC's to be useless and ERPPC's to just be too much heat.

I dunno what it is, but only about 66% of my PPC shots that hit register dmg, so even quirked ppc's I find to be a waste.

Sadly this is also why I haven't run my awesome's in forever.

I've found that any attempt to run ppc's these days is vastly inferior to the laser based weapons. Now that you can roll 3 larges without ghost heat there simply isn't a reason to bring ppc's if you don't have to.

refer to your signature.

Laser vomit? To me, is the opposite of that.

[CocoaJin]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 May 2015 - 11:04 PM, said:

you can only high mount 1, which thus negates their synergy, as I explained to Bloodweaver. It also limits your actual field of fire. With their crap projectile speed, I find it far easier to lead using the arm yaw.

Plus I find the lift glacial, meaning I would rather side poke with them then do the hindenberg lift to try to use them.

Just realized that, it must have been my -H

[Bishop Steiner]

CocoaJin, on 30 May 2015 - 11:06 PM, said:

Just realized that, it must have been my -H

which sadly doesn't get PPC quirks.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 30 May 2015 - 11:07 PM.

[Carrioncrows]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 May 2015 - 11:05 PM, said:

refer to your signature.

Laser vomit? To me, is the opposite of that.

The laser vomit is not what makes the grasshopper enjoyable. What makes it enjoyable is getting up high where you can play "king of the mountain."

[Bishop Steiner]

Carrioncrows, on 30 May 2015 - 11:12 PM, said:

The laser vomit is not what makes the grasshopper enjoyable. What makes it enjoyable is getting up high where you can play "king of the mountain."

I can do that with PPCs. But I can do it better with a VND-1R, as it actually can get some use out of it's JJs.

[Carrioncrows]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 May 2015 - 11:13 PM, said:

I can do that with PPCs. But I can do it better with a VND-1R, as it actually can get some use out of it's JJs.

So what are you arguing here?

That the grasshopper is a waste?
That the grasshopper has some redeemable qualities?
That don't waste a heavy mech slot on a grasshopper when a vindicator can do it better?

You asked for what I find that works. Ppc's don't. You may find that boring. But this isn't a "what's fun thread". This is a "what works best thread."

Grasshopper works better than most in urban combat where you can get up high with cover. Using those high mount hardpoints to jump snipe, or peek. Generally it's Larges, Large pulse, or Er Larges that I use to do that. Back up by lots of mediums, smalls or medium pulse when people try to get in close push me out of my perch.

[Bloodweaver]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 May 2015 - 10:56 PM, said:

and then I have to put my PPCs on separate fire circuits. It loses the elegance of simplicity, and the ability to use yaw, for marginal elevation advantages. If both could be so mounted it would be worth it. But to have on on the torso, and one on the arm? I don't use armlock, so I'll pass.

And I'm not much of a peeker, but when I do peek, having my left side (cockpit side) PPCs will serve well enough.

Yeah, it's not a perfect solution or anything. Just something that can give you another option in certain situations. I put one PPC there and a second one in the opposing arm in order to mitigate losing both PPCs to a single lucky enemy dual Gauss shot, and ran it multiple times in the pre-Tukkayid CW event. Worked pretty well, because I didn't always need to use both PPCs at once, and whenever I did it was usually a head-on situation where convergence was much less of a concern. But CW and PuG matches are totally different, and I doubt such a setup would do much good outside of CW for me.