175 replies to this topic

[Cmdr Killian]

Its pretty much accepted that the ONLY advantage clan mechs have over InnerSphere mechs are their lasers. It seems like each patch, more and more of the reasons to *OWN* clan mechs are removed.

I don't know if any of the dev's ever played Battletech/MechWarrior before.. But, The clan's are actually supposed to be intimidating.

A Timberwolf is supposed to instill a little fear. In game, We don't even bother prioritizing them because they aren't much of a threat, especially now.

First you make 2 of the worst mechs I've ever seen. The Gargoyle and the Summoner. how do either of those mechs make it past Conceptual Design of their weapons? Neither can mount weapons enough to defend THEMSELVES let alone contribute to a battle group.

Infact there are only 2 clan mech chassis as of my writing this that even are capable enough to consider a danger. (I'm not going to mention which 2 out of fear PGI will ruin Them just so all the mechs are the same with no advantage to anything)

The Timberwolf now in some quirk configs has over 20% heat penalties, AND 20% laser duration nurf. On what planet are these ideas from?

The Timberwolf has become a mech that isn't any fun anymore because it cant even out gun an inner sphere MEDIUM one on one and come out on top without disproportionate damage done to it.

Please stop taking the mechs I paid far too much money for, and RUINING them just so you can sell the next mech pack. at this point I feel rather cheated. Stop punishing people for finding new weapon configurations by making the mechs have so many disadvantages that there's no reason to play them!

Also! Clan mechs already are stupidly NOT modular. I mean Hell, Inner sphere mechs are more "Omni"mechs than Clan! You cant swap the engine. Cant swap the armor. Cant move internal stuff that EVEN INNERSPHERE mechs can! No endo-steel options, No ferroferibus options. No engine options *AT ALL!* Then you make half the omnipods garbage. Then you punish people for installing omnipods that make sense! Limit our choices and then punish the player.

At this point you have pretty much made the Timberwolf and Stormcrow Un-competitive with even other clan mechs. let alone inner sphere.

Anyone who knows Battletech/MechWarrior can tell you when a Timberwolf isn't intimidating, you've balanced the game wrong. You should be IMPROVING mechs, not NURFING them. Try Nurfing something inner sphere for once. I've been buying every pack you release to support the game. Until you start making the clan mechs actually intimidating again, I'm spending NO more money on this game. For all I know, I'll buy a new mech pack and the week later they'll have a 25% laser heat Nurf for no reason. I strongly encourage everyone in the game who feels PGI is taking advantage of us to boycott buying new content until they make the *OLD* content worth while. How would you feel to buy the Direwolf pack of mechs.. Just to have them make your mechs pathetic and NOT what you paid for anymore.

It pains me to say this, but maybe they need to rename the Timberwolf to PaperDragon.
That's what it feels like now. Thank you SO much for that

[Thorqemada]

The Clan XL is a giant advantage also...

[Cmdr Killian]

Yep. One advantage that I know *I* would trade out to actually have a clan mech that was as customizable as innersphere..

[Anunknownlurker]

Of course they aren't, they are attempting to balance a somewhat overpowered mech.

I have no idea about the Battletech Universe (frankly I am not that interested in it) I just like big stompy robots, so any talk of "the TimberWolf is meant to instil fear...etc" is pretty meaningless to me.

PGI put Clan mechs in game and two of them overperform in, what is to all intents and purposes,a 1vs 1 game. I hope these changes were made based on measurable data rather than anecdotal data and it is too early to tell if they have worked...we have all got used to TW an SCR bossing fights and will have to adapt our playstyles.

I am not saying I agree fully with the changes but, in a way, it's our own fault for being nasty, scheming gamers who will exploit min/max to the best of our abilities, and have made the TW in MWO more than the designers thought.

It's evolution baby, adapt or die

Good hunting!

[TWIAFU]

Jimmy DiGriz, on 20 May 2015 - 03:19 AM, said:

Of course they aren't, they are attempting to balance a somewhat overpowered mech.

I have no idea about the Battletech Universe (frankly I am not that interested in it) I just like big stompy robots, so any talk of "the TimberWolf is meant to instil fear...etc" is pretty meaningless to me.

PGI put Clan mechs in game and two of them overperform in, what is to all intents and purposes,a 1vs 1 game. I hope these changes were made based on measurable data rather than anecdotal data and it is too early to tell if they have worked...we have all got used to TW an SCR bossing fights and will have to adapt our playstyles.

I am not saying I agree fully with the changes but, in a way, it's our own fault for being nasty, scheming gamers who will exploit min/max to the best of our abilities, and have made the TW in MWO more than the designers thought.

It's evolution baby, adapt or die

Good hunting!

With respect, this is why we cannot have nice things and will only get worse with the Steamtards.

If players have no knowledge of the BT universe in which we find ourselves playing and enter this game just as 'big stompy robots' fighting that lack of knowledge coupled with feedback off that lack of knowledge will push this game farther from it's core roots and cannon just to mimic other crap "big stompy robot" games, like Hawkken.

Learn some of the lore and cannon behind the game you are playing. It will give meaning and you just may learn something behind the game you play. BT has a huge, rich, and colorful in-game history and is much, much more then just "big stompy robots".

The people with the knowledge of the BT Universe want to protect it in MWO.

Do not want those without any knowledge of BT to Jar-Jar Binks the game setting we love.

[Mosadoff]

Clan Uacs better than IS?
Did I missed some new patch?

[Anunknownlurker]

You seem to miss my point TWIAFU, MWO is not Battletech, this is an entirely different and new game which is based on Battletech - I think of it like NFL being based on, but different from, Rugby i.e. a similar game using some of the root ideas but you need no knowledge of the antecedents to either play, or enjoy watching it.

I am quite offended by your comments to be honest - Jar Jar Binks!! - and was only replying to the OP to clarify my viewpoint and offer some sort of support but clearly in your eyes as I am not a Battletech nerd I therefore have no legitimate view to offer. Well, I beg to differ, I don't play Battletech but I DO PLAY MWO and that is the game I care about.

Please don't expect any more from me on this thread.

Edited by Jimmy DiGriz, 20 May 2015 - 04:29 AM.

[Idealsuspect]

Mosadoff, on 20 May 2015 - 04:03 AM, said:

Clan Uacs better than IS?
Did I missed some new patch?

IS UAC5 5 slots 9 tonns...
Clan UAC5 3 slots 7 tonns...

You miss all others data except for damage it seem. Yea clan and IS damage are same yea.

[Glitched Naga]

I've been playing the mechwarrior for a very long time, and i've delved into the lore aswell. i've supported the game since the founders pack and bought each pack sence. I also run both clan and IS mechs, and i enjoy both. But with the recent nerfs, even using lasers as a sub weapon has become non usable. I understand that the clan mechs were using lasers as their primary weapon, but when you have to use pulses for the same durtion as previous medium laser, it completly takes away of what made a pulse laser, a pulse laser. Clan mechs can't really poke anymore with pulses.

When it comes to ultras, and even regular AC's, clans run a disadvantage with them due to the lower projecticle speed, and the fact it is a burst, not a single slug. yes you can fit more, but you cannot pin-point the shots. what would take a single ac to fire from clan, the IS can fire 2 shots in that same timeframe and be more accurate. the spread of damage is not worth the extra slots. close range, yes, it works, long range it doesn't. speaking for the new guys, CUAC's are not as friendly for dps, but sound cool though.

Certain mechs are broken, i agree, but having a wide nerf like that on some of the most popular and iconic mechs really do not help the case where there are guys trying to save up to buy them. This is just my 2 cents, and please don't throw me into the fire for my opinion. Thank you for your time.


Edit: also just checked, you don't have as many modules in order to compinsate for these nerfs.

Edited by NagaGunner, 20 May 2015 - 08:27 AM.

[Artax33]

Idealsuspect, on 20 May 2015 - 04:34 AM, said:

IS UAC5 5 slots 9 tonns...
Clan UAC5 3 slots 7 tonns...

You miss all others data except for damage it seem. Yea clan and IS damage are same yea.

Clan ballistics fire multiply rounds that equal the damage. An AC 20 fires 4 5 dmg rounds. It make it easier for the target to spreed dmg. Even the AC 2 fires 2 rounds at 1 dmg each. Only the Gauss doesn't have this and that is hard to use until you get some practice. I have gotten pretty good in solo drops with a UAC 20 but they are only a little better the lasers.

[Lostdragon]

Idealsuspect, on 20 May 2015 - 04:34 AM, said:

IS UAC5 5 slots 9 tonns...
Clan UAC5 3 slots 7 tonns...

You miss all others data except for damage it seem. Yea clan and IS damage are same yea.

Have you ever used CUACs? They suck compared to IS ones because they burst fire instead of firing one projectile. Their lower weight and fewer slots used are only small consolation in light of fixed equipment on many clan mechs, but these small advantages are far outweighed by the fact it lacks pinpoint damage.

[GentlemanBryan]

WOW I fired my ERLL - got some coffee - came back and my ERLL was still going...

[Commissar Aku]

Ummm, I think you are all forgetting 20 ECM clan mechs, and every clan mech have an almost infinite number of hardpoint configurations. Timbers and Stormcrows were nerfed to make people play more different mechs, not to nerf clans. Just like from time to time they nerf missiles because it help force a meta change. Stop complaining about having overpowered mechs and just spend the time to get better at playing the game.

Clan mechs are better in every way but heat effeciency anyway. all but the lights are faster, have more armor, more firepower, have mechs that can take more than 2 gauss rifles, have mechs that can take more than 2 AC 20s, and once again have 20 mechs with ECM. Every one who says clans are under powered should be ban forever from this game.

As for Clan ACs you people just need to learn to aim, they cause more cockpit shake firing more rounds, making it much much harder to attack back, they are cooler, and the UACs can fire much much faster than even IS AC2's. So what then is so crappy about clan UACs and ACs?

Edited by Commissar Aku, 20 May 2015 - 11:21 AM.

[PlasmonDawn]

I understand the general intent of the patch, to dissuade people from mass laser-boat clan builds which were quite strong, however I think it is poorly implemented. Here are my critiques and suggestions:

- First of all, attention was given only to Stormcrow and Timberwolf. This just promotes moving similar builds to a different chassis (won't mention which just like the OP) in order to avoid the penalty. If you are going to implement such high impact balance changes, don't just look at the most popular mechs and nerf them, but think this through thoroughly!

- The linear stacking of the negative quirks essentially dissuades you from using ANY energy weapons in a build. Even some, more balanced builds that contain a combination of say ballistic and energy weapons are penalized. I suggest making the quirks stack non-linearly, such that a complete laser boat is punished, but minimal effect on using 2-4 energy weapons. That or decreasing the severity of the quirks from 3% down to 1 - 1.5%

- I actually approve of how the SCR B arm was given positive quirks (except for the fact that it is not yet available for C-bills and therefore pay-to-win). Perhaps keep it up and instead of giving the - 3%/per energy slot across the board, vary it up a bit? Make some TBR omnipods favourable over others, and add more variety to quirks in the other SCR omnipods. Perhaps more neutral or positive quirks to arm omnipods to promote symmetric builds and less torso - mounted weapons.

Overall, poorly implemented, please think things through thoroughly for future changes like this PGI.

[VorpalAnvil]

Idealsuspect, on 20 May 2015 - 04:34 AM, said:

IS UAC5 5 slots 9 tonns...
Clan UAC5 3 slots 7 tonns...

You miss all others data except for damage it seem. Yea clan and IS damage are same yea.

I am going to say this one time only for all you knuckle draggers out there in the IS about Clan mechs compared to IS mechs: slots and weight of weapons/heat sinks/ etc is irrelevant when the two chassis are compared. IS mechs have much more free tonnage and space than clanners, as well as the option to increase or decrease that space/tonnage as your build dictates. If Clan weapons and gear weighed/used same # of slots as IS gear then NO clan mech could mount more than your typical IS light. It is a fundamental difference in the design philosophy built into the game structure more for aesthetic purposes than anything else. Anyone claiming that this is a clam op advantage either 1: Has never owned any clan mechs and/or doesn't understand how to use the mech bay/ smurfy's ( explaining alot of the builds we see in game ) or 2: Is being intellectually dishonest ( for those of you in Davion or Wolf space that's a big fancy word for liar ).

Edited by VorpalAnvil, 20 May 2015 - 12:33 PM.

[VileKnight]

OP - PGI isn't trying to punish clan mech owners. Please stop the nonsense.

Commissar Aku, on 20 May 2015 - 11:20 AM, said:

Ummm, I think you are all forgetting 20 ECM clan mechs, and every clan mech have an almost infinite number of hardpoint configurations. Timbers and Stormcrows were nerfed to make people play more different mechs, not to nerf clans. Just like from time to time they nerf missiles because it help force a meta change. Stop complaining about having overpowered mechs and just spend the time to get better at playing the game.

Clan mechs are better in every way but heat effeciency anyway. all but the lights are faster, have more armor, more firepower, have mechs that can take more than 2 gauss rifles, have mechs that can take more than 2 AC 20s, and once again have 20 mechs with ECM. Every one who says clans are under powered should be ban forever from this game.

As for Clan ACs you people just need to learn to aim, they cause more cockpit shake firing more rounds, making it much much harder to attack back, they are cooler, and the UACs can fire much much faster than even IS AC2's. So what then is so crappy about clan UACs and ACs?

Taking the nerf bat to a mech in order to make people play other things is poor planning. The better question is "why are these other mechs not being used more?", and then attack that.

Stop being so hyperbolic with your "should be banned from the game" comments. Its not adding anything of value to the topic.

"You people" is about as ignorant as it gets. I would argue that the top tier players know how to aim pretty well, and the meta builds (what they use) for the most part avoid UAC's. That tells me all I need to know. Not to mention the fact that no matter how good my aim is that doesn't stop the target from twisting its torso now does it?

Edited by VileKnight, 20 May 2015 - 12:01 PM.

[Commissar Aku]

VileKnight, on 20 May 2015 - 11:55 AM, said:

OP - PGI isn't trying to punish clan mech owners. Please stop the nonsense.



Taking the nerf bat to a mech in order to make people play other things is poor planning. The better question is "why are these other mechs not being used more?", and then attack that.

Stop being so hyperbolic with your "should be banned from the game" comments. Its not adding anything of value to the topic.

"You people" is about as ignorant as it gets. I would argue that the top tier players know how to aim pretty well, and the meta builds (what they use) for the most part avoid UAC's. That tells me all I need to know. Not to mention the fact that no matter how good my aim is that doesn't stop the target from twisting its torso now does it?

The reason other mechs aren't being used has very little with there being anything wrong with the mech, and more to do with the current meta. I agree it is irresponsible to nerf just 2 chassis but I am pretty sure when people stop playing the laser boat builds they will go back to ACs or gauss like always. Just like all the times PGI nerfed missiles and LL/ERLL in the past. Hey VileKnight the Meta for comp players is the same as it has always been gauss and ERPPCs, they aren't even touching comp builds just all those little ****** that find one mega alpha build and only take it, it gets annoying and at some point always gets nerfed. If you are so upset play a different game until they change it back.

[Darwins Dog]

TWIAFU, on 20 May 2015 - 03:44 AM, said:

With respect, this is why we cannot have nice things and will only get worse with the Steamtards.

If players have no knowledge of the BT universe in which we find ourselves playing and enter this game just as 'big stompy robots' fighting that lack of knowledge coupled with feedback off that lack of knowledge will push this game farther from it's core roots and cannon just to mimic other crap "big stompy robot" games, like Hawkken.

Learn some of the lore and cannon behind the game you are playing. It will give meaning and you just may learn something behind the game you play. BT has a huge, rich, and colorful in-game history and is much, much more then just "big stompy robots".

The people with the knowledge of the BT Universe want to protect it in MWO.

Do not want those without any knowledge of BT to Jar-Jar Binks the game setting we love.

I can't help but think that this sort of attitude is part of the reason why Mechwarrior/Battletech was basically dead for such a long time, and why even now this game has a relatively small following. New players are not going to be enticed to play a game because of bits of fluff in long out of print sourcebooks, or a series (badly written) novels. They are going to be attracted to stompy robots first, and then motivated to learn about the lore. I started playing BT nearly 20 years ago when I saw some really cool robot figures at my local hobby shop. I got into mechwarrior shortly after (MW2), read the fiction, played clicky-tech, and so on.

Games need to evolve to attract new players, otherwise they will die.

Using lore or TT for balance is a mistake.
New player: "Why is the balance of this game so bad?"
Battletech veteran: "Well you see in 2784 Alexander Kerensky led the Star League Defense Force in an exodus to the outer periphery..."
New player: *dozes off*
Battletech veteran:"... and that's why the Dire Wolf, or Daishi, is vastly superior to your Atlas. You should really read the Blood of Kerensky Trilogy, then it will all make sense."
New player:"Sure, I'll get right on that." *uninstalls MWO*

[Augustus Martelus II]

what i hate is they will punish a lot of casual players...not ''la creme de la creme'' players...ones that don't do metabuilt. CW clans are some of the best players you ll find in MWO. I ahte that PGI have generalise to the whole clans...already lrms are boff.... Acs are meh...laser was their only better weapons...

Direwolf is the only clan mechs that can boat enough acs to make it good.

I do a lot more damage and kills in my IS mechs now lol

Edited by Augustus Martelus II, 20 May 2015 - 12:50 PM.

[VileKnight]

Commissar Aku, on 20 May 2015 - 12:12 PM, said:

The reason other mechs aren't being used has very little with there being anything wrong with the mech, and more to do with the current meta. I agree it is irresponsible to nerf just 2 chassis but I am pretty sure when people stop playing the laser boat builds they will go back to ACs or gauss like always. Just like all the times PGI nerfed missiles and LL/ERLL in the past. Hey VileKnight the Meta for comp players is the same as it has always been gauss and ERPPCs, they aren't even touching comp builds just all those little ****** that find one mega alpha build and only take it, it gets annoying and at some point always gets nerfed. If you are so upset play a different game until they change it back.

I think you are misinformed about the meta right now sir. The meta is not PPCs & Guass. Hell, during the CW event I rarely saw PPC's on the field on either side. Clan mechs are indeed running a lot of Guass, but that point is void because the changes in this last patch did nothing to impact that weapon system.

I could be wrong, but I just don't see it in play.

I think that I do agree with your statement that players will eventually go back to other weapon systems now that these new changes are in play. Personally I hope this will help push some much needed tweaks for Clan UAC's.

Edited by VileKnight, 20 May 2015 - 02:00 PM.