83 replies to this topic

[cSand]

Mudhutwarrior, on 01 June 2015 - 11:08 AM, said:

Yep. Its called onedrive and its unremovable... They already turned the cloud over to the NSA and here's there front door into your system.

http://betanews.com/...ata-to-the-nsa/


I will let the consumerist zombies do what they will but I won't be having it.

Lol.

Well, as you clearly have no idea how it works (I don't mean that condescendingly ftr), I will spare you the details becasuse it is a lot of information to type out here.

But it is disable-able (not in the tech preview) according to my MS literature here. And if they do decide to make it hard to disable, a simple registry change or local security policy will suffice to remove it (and hey, if you want to know how, just PM me).

Here's another way to disable without getting into the complex stuff:
http://www.tenforums...ndows-10-a.html

Notice you can't unlink Onedrive as the user is signed in with a MS account. More reason to create a local account when installing, or converting your existing account to a local one.

All that said, even if you leave Onedrive on, it is not a "front door to your system". There is no reverse access from the cloud to any files on your computer, nor can there be (barring any native backdoors in Windows itself. If the NSA wants to get into your PC for some reason, they will. But Onedrive will not be the reason.) In fact, Onedrive only syncs files that you put into the Onedrive folder (much like dropbox). Office also has the option to auto-upload to OneDrive if you use multiple devices, but again this can be disabled.

The simplest solution: just don't put your files into One-Drive.

Alternatively, if you don't sign in to Windows using a Microsoft account (and personally, I think everyone should be using a local account anyways) you can't even upload to the Onedrive without signing in...

Frankly, if you have anything to hide anyways, WHY would you be putting it on a CLOUD SERVICE in the first place? And if you must do that for some insane reason, why would you not be encrypting everything first?? Onedrive, Google Drive, Apple Cloud... it's all accessible from the powers that be if they want it. Fact is though, they don't want it becuase 99.99999999% is just user's mundane crapola.

When you use the Windows 10 preview, the agreement is that all info is sent to MS as they are collecting it for use in developing the OS. This is not the case with the official release. The data collection options are there should you want to use them for some reason, but this same data collection can be disabled, just like in 8.1 (in fact it is disabled by default in 8.1), in the offical release.

BTW here is how to install Windows 10 using a local account rather than sigining in to Microsoft (same as 8.1)

http://www.baldnerd....rosoft-account/

Edited by cSand, 01 June 2015 - 11:37 AM.

[Raggedyman]

cSand, on 01 June 2015 - 11:23 AM, said:

Frankly, if you have anything to hide anyways, WHY would you be putting it on a CLOUD SERVICE in the first place? And if you must do that for some insane reason, why would you not be encrypting everything first?? Onedrive, Google Drive, Apple Cloud... it's all accessible from the powers that be if they want it. Fact is though, they don't want it becuase 99.99999999% is just user's mundane crapola.

If I may....

TL:DR anything you ever put online is NSAable

If you want to keep it safe then don't put it online

Edited by Raggedyman, 01 June 2015 - 11:36 AM.

[cSand]

Raggedyman, on 01 June 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

If I may....

TL:DR anything you ever put online is NSAable

If you want to keep it safe then don't put it online

slight extension of the TL:DR

If you don't want your files in the cloud, most basic way to ensure that is to use a local account or don't put them in the Onedrive folder. Ideally, both of those.

[Raggedyman]

cSand, on 01 June 2015 - 11:39 AM, said:

slight extension of the TL:DR

If you don't want your files in the cloud, most basic way to ensure that is to use a local account or don't put them in the Onedrive folder. Ideally, both of those.

If you're honestly worried about the NSA then just don't put them on anything that connects to the internet.
Also: stop being a terrorist

[Bill Lumbar]

zagibu, on 01 June 2015 - 11:03 AM, said:

So basically, you aren't that well informed, but still think you have a point, because of some silly generalizations?

The reason why backdoors could be problematic for Windows etc. is that you get your updates in binary form from a central source. You don't know what's in those patches. And it would be very easy for the NSA to give Microsoft a call and tell them to include a bit of extra code in the next patch that they provide for them (assuming there is not already a backdoor present). Same thing with Apple and Google Android.

With Linux systems, this is much harder, because there are many distributions that all use their own updating systems, so you would have to either somehow sneak it into the kernel (which is almost impossible, because the kernel code is very tightly controlled by many pairs of eyes), or you would have to put it into a popular userland program, such as a music player or gimp or something. But even that wouldn't guarantee success, because the backdoor would be visible in the source code and could be discovered at any time. The best chance would probably be to infiltrate the package management teams of the larger distributions, and bundle the backdoor with one of the regular binary update packages.

Are you threatening me???...... lol... in all seriousness are you just looking to talk smack to some one today? I am not a expert coder by a long shot. I am not trying to make points based on silly generalizations. While you might believe I am not "well informed", In your first paragraph you explain how it could happen, but claim it is harder in Linux. Yes, you are correct, it is harder to pull off in Linux OS. However, as I pointed out, news broke within the last several months that this very thing happened with Linux servers and parts of the Kernel had been found to be infected/changed and was a very "smart" program that laid low at times, and didn't act like a normal malware program.

At the time it was found in the kernel, no one was for sure how long it had been there, and just how much data/information had been taken from many Linux systems and used or sold. It worked by being able to stay "hidden in the code" and passing until undetected and on users systems and servers. This isn't me making a boogie man speech about Linux OS's, this is a fact that happened and maybe still happening right now. I have around 5 computers running Linux Mint 17.1 in my home right now, and love linux OS, so many flavors of it, take you pick and enjoy. Are we all good here?

Edited by Bill Lumbar, 01 June 2015 - 01:47 PM.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Or maybe just not give these bas###s your money. Someday they may get the hint.

[Bill Lumbar]

cSand, on 01 June 2015 - 10:57 AM, said:

Yep, it is only for users of Windows 7 +


One of the main reasons being I think that generally Vista = older hardware, thus more potential for problems (I know from experience getting 8.1 to run on some Vista-era laptops could be problematic with drivers for the older hardware)

My older gateway C2D is running it just fine, other then the trackpad issue. I am sure if I did enough, or once 10 is launched a driver will be out for it. It is running Windows 10
really nice for a laptop that came with Vista installed on it.

[cSand]

Mudhutwarrior, on 01 June 2015 - 11:44 AM, said:

Or maybe just not give these bas###s your money. Someday they may get the hint.

Look man, I'm as much for privacy as you are. But living in the past does not ensure a good future. The nature of having data stored online is just that, it is out of your hands, and the nature of computer is no longer a box on your desk segregated from everything. Everything in integrated now on some level and indeed this has many good, and bad uses.

The trick, rather than put your "F**K the NSA" t-shirt on an resisting change, is to learn how to use the options available to you in a responsible manner. MS of all the companies seems the most willing to put up the middle finger to srrvices like the NSA. Believe me, Apple and Google caved before they did.

Hell, MS even added Onedrive encyrption for everyone if they choose to use it and Windows itself allows you encrypt your files, and the key is stored on your PC (or a thumbdrive, or through a fingerprint, or w/e else, there are tons of 3rd party options as well). If you are given as many options for protecting yourself as we have nowadays, and you refuse to use them and instead bury your head in the sand in some kind of protest, you are doing no good for yourself, or anyone else.

I know for the un-savvy masses some of this stuff can be daunting but frankly in this day and age, with computers being such an integral part of life in most places, it is inexcusable to not at least ahve some basic knowledge of what you are doing. And if you choose not to educate yourself, and get burned down the road, then you only have yourself to blame.




ok diatribes over for the day, I should get some work done while I'm at work, lol

Edited by cSand, 01 June 2015 - 11:56 AM.

[Raggedyman]

Bill Lumbar, on 01 June 2015 - 11:49 AM, said:

My older gateway C2D is running it just fine, other then the trackpad issue. I am sure if I did enough, or once 10 is launched a driver will be out for it. It is running Windows 10
really nice for a laptop that came with Vista installed on it.

half their mission plan for 10 was to make it run on old kit, iirc it can run on a Raspberry Pi

[Wintersdark]

Bill Lumbar, on 01 June 2015 - 07:41 AM, said:

IF DX12 turns out to be a worthy upgrade, and is what Microsoft promises it to be.... I see this as a huge problem for this game not supporting it. IF it turns out to be a flop like other DX versions.... no biggie. This game really needs all the help it can get in the optimizing department, IMO. If it turns out to boost performance big time, and graphics quality, IMO, Russ and PGI are making a mistake hanging onto a outdated DX version and Cryengine for that matter. Time will tell, lets hope for the best.

It's not trivial. Implementing DX12 has many costs: They'd need to upgrade Cryengine, but that's just not a "drop in" upgrade. PGI's implementation of Cryengine is heavily customized, so there'd be a very substantial amount of work to upgrade. It'd take a long time, and totally stop development elsewhere while it happened. Then, it'd come at the cost of ending DX9 support (because the new cryengine drops support for DX9 entirely) which could actually stop current players from playing.

Now, consider, DX11 is objectively better than DX9, but in actual practice in MWO doesn't perform particularly better (or better at all, for many) in DX11. It certainly doesn't look better. If they're not pushing the envelope with DX11 as it stands, why would they risk all the game-breaking bugs possible with a complex engine upgrade and dropping support for some existing customers just to bring in what's basically just a bigger number?

Instead, they could just work towards actually utilizing the features of DX11 they're not using now.

[Bill Lumbar]

Wintersdark, on 01 June 2015 - 12:12 PM, said:

It's not trivial. Implementing DX12 has many costs: They'd need to upgrade Cryengine, but that's just not a "drop in" upgrade. PGI's implementation of Cryengine is heavily customized, so there'd be a very substantial amount of work to upgrade. It'd take a long time, and totally stop development elsewhere while it happened. Then, it'd come at the cost of ending DX9 support (because the new cryengine drops support for DX9 entirely) which could actually stop current players from playing.

Now, consider, DX11 is objectively better than DX9, but in actual practice in MWO doesn't perform particularly better (or better at all, for many) in DX11. It certainly doesn't look better. If they're not pushing the envelope with DX11 as it stands, why would they risk all the game-breaking bugs possible with a complex engine upgrade and dropping support for some existing customers just to bring in what's basically just a bigger number?

Instead, they could just work towards actually utilizing the features of DX11 they're not using now.

I understand and agree with what you are saying, I completely get its not just a switch they hit and its now DX12 or the new cryengine. I am just saying if it brings big things, better then we have now, and I mean a lot better, I think they need to consider doing the extra work to make it happen. If it brings very little improvements, then I understand it not happening with this game.

Edited by Bill Lumbar, 01 June 2015 - 01:47 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Bill Lumbar, on 01 June 2015 - 01:46 PM, said:

I understand and agree with what you are saying, I completely get its not just a switch they hit and its now DX12 or the new cryengine. I am just saying if it brings big things, better then we have now, and I mean a lot better, I think they need to consider doing the extra work to make it happen. If it brings very little improvements, then I understand it not happening with this game.

Yeah, that's the thing. It's not just work, it's also in dropping DX9 support - that's a major stumbling block.

Also, simply adding DX12 adds nothing. You need to add support for DX12's new features, too - and they haven't been too eager to get DX11's new features in.

I'd argue a much better usage of time, even if DX12 has great possibilities would be to actually start using DX11's features.

[zagibu]

Bill Lumbar, on 01 June 2015 - 11:43 AM, said:

Are you threatening me???...... lol... in all seriousness are you just looking to talk smack to some one today? I am not a expert coder by a long shot. I am not trying to make points based on silly generalizations. While you might believe I am not "well informed", In your first paragraph you explain how it could happen, but claim it is harder in Linux. Yes, you are correct, it is harder to pull off in Linux OS. However, as I pointed out, news broke within the last several months that this very thing happened with Linux servers and parts of the Kernel had been found to be infected/changed and was a very "smart" program that laid low at times, and didn't act like a normal malware program.

At the time it was found in the kernel, no one was for sure how long it had been there, and just how much data/information had been taken from many Linux systems and used or sold. It worked by being able to stay "hidden in the code" and passing until undetected and on users systems and servers. This isn't me making a boogie man speech about Linux OS's, this is a fact that happened and maybe still happening right now. I have around 5 computers running Linux Mint 17.1 in my home right now, and love linux OS, so many flavors of it, take you pick and enjoy. Are we all good here?

Can you provide some links supporting those "facts"?

[Bill Lumbar]

http://arstechnica.c...m-and-exploits/

Here is one... took only two seconds to search.

http://www.eweek.com...eb-servers.html

These are not the ones that I read about a while back.... sure its not to hard to find the info. The other article I came across had more info.

Edited by Bill Lumbar, 01 June 2015 - 05:18 PM.

[Bill Lumbar]

Wintersdark, on 01 June 2015 - 02:01 PM, said:

Yeah, that's the thing. It's not just work, it's also in dropping DX9 support - that's a major stumbling block.

Also, simply adding DX12 adds nothing. You need to add support for DX12's new features, too - and they haven't been too eager to get DX11's new features in.

I'd argue a much better usage of time, even if DX12 has great possibilities would be to actually start using DX11's features.

It may be a stumbling block to move on from DX9.... but I believe if DX12 is all its cracked up to be give the age of DX9..... when DX12 comes it would be a good time to do it. Idk, just my opinion.

Edited by Bill Lumbar, 01 June 2015 - 07:51 PM.

[zagibu]

Bill Lumbar, on 01 June 2015 - 05:14 PM, said:

http://arstechnica.c...m-and-exploits/

Here is one... took only two seconds to search.

http://www.eweek.com...eb-servers.html

These are not the ones that I read about a while back.... sure its not to hard to find the info. The other article I came across had more info.

Here are two quotes right from the two articles you linked:

Quote

The Windigo campaign doesn't rely on technical vulnerabilities to take hold of servers, Eset said. Instead, it uses stolen credentials.

Quote

A server has to have some channel that takes untrusted data and passes it to the Bash shell, and that channel has to be accessible through the Internet.

Not sure how those should serve as examples for "back doors" in Linux.

[Surn]

I am a Microsoft Silver partner for application development. Win 10 is free to ensure everyone gets on the same platform to reduce support cost and complexity. It is impressive and they have not pushed partners to sell it like a subscription aka office 365, so it is not a subscription product.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Mister D, on 01 June 2015 - 03:59 AM, said:

I have my reservations about even downloading it at this point.

Win-7 x64 is working just fine for me, I hated Windows-8, and not so excited to see a free product by Microsoft..
Going to be a catch in there somewhere, probably something stupid as hell like a monthly subscription to use windows.

Well for the technical preview the catch was that they got to see everything you did on your computer lol

[Insects]

The newer CryEngine dropped support for DX9, so PGI is stuck with the old version until they are ready to take the step of telling customers they need to upgrade computer/GPU or stop playing.

There is no point rushing to support DX12 when it isn't even released yet.

MWO should be fine on Win10.
However drivers are going to be a headache for a lot of computers, it will be foolish to rush to install without checking all your hardware is supported. Good idea to wait a couple of months for everything to catch up and major issues to be fixed, early adopter = guinnea pig.

[Wintersdark]

Mister D, on 01 June 2015 - 03:59 AM, said:

I have my reservations about even downloading it at this point.

Win-7 x64 is working just fine for me, I hated Windows-8, and not so excited to see a free product by Microsoft..
Going to be a catch in there somewhere, probably something stupid as hell like a monthly subscription to use windows.

It's not a subscription product. For gods sake, people keep saying this, and it's totally unfounded.

They want to get people on Win10 because historically, new windows versions have terrible up-take. Microsoft wants to get everyone on the same platform.

Realistically, this is critically important to them because today, more than ever before, Windows is irrelevant. Fewer and fewer people have desktops, and laptops are easily replaced by cheaper Chromebooks with better battery life and all the functionality 99% of users need. Android and iOS dominate mobile space, and as mobile devices improve more and more people have no use for traditional PC's at all.

Further, the people who still need PC's are the more technical set, and gamers. Of those, the technical set have Linux as an excellent and wholly free option.

Windows used to have a stranglehold on Enterprise mostly because they had a stranglehold on home PC's. People wanted to use the same OS at work as they do at home, so they know how to do everything. But with ever fewer people running Windows at home, that ceases to be an issue.

The end result? Microsoft desperately needs people on Windows, and needs them to be on modern Windows to compete. MS won't go subscription for home users, because any major push against those home users would be a knife in their own back.