73 replies to this topic

[Chef Kerensky]

DarthRevis, on 03 June 2015 - 09:59 AM, said:

So much butt hurt over a BS tactic being taken away.....

PGI has already stated this along with light rushes is not the intended way to play this mode. So back to the drawing board for the one trick pony units.




Why not just play the mode as intended instead of trying to find some exploit to give you a leg up? Might tone done that Cheater label you are getting as well.

Explain to me in exactly what way NKVA should destroy you so as to be fair. I guarantee you the spawncamping changes will not result in SA beating us. It will only delay the inevitable, one horribly-drawn out 30 minute slugfest at a time.

[Aethelred Kell]

Well this makes defenders on attack mode in Boreal almost unbeatable since the generators and Omega sit so close to the drop points. You can use the drop ships as extra defenders on that map with ease now.

[sdsnowbum]

They are going to move defender drop locations so that on all maps they will drop away from objectives.

[BARBAR0SSA]

Quick Fix I can think of until the spawn locations are moved is

Need a mechanic of "If the attacking team does not cause 15 damage to defending team every two minutes" then the match ends as a loss for attackers regardless.

Something like that, may not be ideal but it would prevent counter attack 1 kill and omega hiding along with 1500m laser for 0.1 Dmg reset timer abuse.

Edited by shad0w4life, 03 June 2015 - 11:15 AM.

[sdsnowbum]

Chef Kerensky, on 03 June 2015 - 10:11 AM, said:

Coordinating fire on specific mechs to bring them down before they become a threat? Cycling mechs forward based on their remaining health in order to let healthy mechs tank enemy fire and dropship lasers? Winning by a huge margin by virtue of working together and never easing up pressure on the opposing team? Yes, it was a lot of fun.

You know to be honest nothing about these new changes is going to prevent you from doing any of this to a vastly inferior team. It will be a bit harder and doing so will be a bit of a gamble since it could allow an opponent you've got dead to rights a tiny chance to claw back into the fight.

Sounds like a challenge though, more than the vastly inferior team could offer you without some help.

Against better teams it will be a bit more of a challenge, and more of a gamble that they can comeback. And maybe just maybe you'll just take the objectives when you have a chance rather than always kill all 48 enemies.

[sdsnowbum]

Chef Kerensky, on 03 June 2015 - 10:19 AM, said:

Explain to me in exactly what way NKVA should destroy you so as to be fair. I guarantee you the spawncamping changes will not result in SA beating us. It will only delay the inevitable, one horribly-drawn out 30 minute slugfest at a time.

If every CW match was a drawn out 30 minute slugfest it would be glorious!!

[Chuck Jager]

Stoneblade, on 02 June 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

CW is "Hardcore" mode. Spawncamping and Light Rushes are viable tactics. But they are just that: TACTICS. If your Tactic isn't as effective to counter, then please scream at PGI that it is OP because you lost. They apparently listen to whiners, not people who play CW.

The only hardcore I see is the folks who dont want to compete against cSJX or LORDS in the group Que picking on PUGs in a very hardcore way.

[YCSLiesmith]

DarthRevis, on 03 June 2015 - 09:59 AM, said:

So much butt hurt over a BS tactic being taken away.....

PGI has already stated this along with light rushes is not the intended way to play this mode. So back to the drawing board for the one trick pony units.




Why not just play the mode as intended instead of trying to find some exploit to give you a leg up? Might tone done that Cheater label you are getting as well.

you lack any and all understanding, DothBenis. spawn camping is 'playing the mode as intended" because to do it you march towards where the enemy is and shoot them until you die, then find new enemies. eventually they are all dead so you march to where they are coming from and shoot them there. it's not a trick, it's just winning the game normally. The 'trick' here is the incredible speed with which bad players manage to get themselves killed, their lack of skill warping the normal functioning of the game so that by the end they are dying as they fall out of their dropships.

what exactly would you have me do? offer duels to enemies? politely not fire my lasers when I see an enemy mech?

how do you think spawn camping happens, darkbepis?

[YCSLiesmith]

shad0w4life, on 03 June 2015 - 11:14 AM, said:

Quick Fix I can think of until the spawn locations are moved is

Need a mechanic of "If the attacking team does not cause 15 damage to defending team every two minutes" then the match ends as a loss for attackers regardless.

Something like that, may not be ideal but it would prevent counter attack 1 kill and omega hiding along with 1500m laser for 0.1 Dmg reset timer abuse.

lmao yes lets reward the defending team for hiding from the attackers, this is a great idea

sdsnowbum, on 03 June 2015 - 11:23 AM, said:

You know to be honest nothing about these new changes is going to prevent you from doing any of this to a vastly inferior team. It will be a bit harder and doing so will be a bit of a gamble since it could allow an opponent you've got dead to rights a tiny chance to claw back into the fight.

Sounds like a challenge though, more than the vastly inferior team could offer you without some help.

Against better teams it will be a bit more of a challenge, and more of a gamble that they can comeback. And maybe just maybe you'll just take the objectives when you have a chance rather than always kill all 48 enemies.

a vastly inferior team will not (and honestly should not) be a challenge no matter what you do unless it's something unreasonable like mario kart blue shell stuff. A better team will never get spawn camped. this is a solution without a problem.

[YCSLiesmith]

Aethelred Kell, on 03 June 2015 - 11:06 AM, said:

Well this makes defenders on attack mode in Boreal almost unbeatable since the generators and Omega sit so close to the drop points. You can use the drop ships as extra defenders on that map with ease now.

it's gonna be so fun to do that to people and watch them cry

[Harvey Batchall Kerensky at Law]

Chuck YeaGurr, on 03 June 2015 - 11:59 AM, said:

The only hardcore I see is the folks who dont want to compete against cSJX or LORDS in the group Que picking on PUGs in a very hardcore way.

Haha

Edited by MadWOPR, 03 June 2015 - 01:03 PM.

[Khereg]

YCSLiesmith, on 03 June 2015 - 12:39 PM, said:

A better team will never get spawn camped. this is a solution without a problem.

Glad to see NKVA posting again. i missed you guys.

So, serious question... I don't like the delay tactic possibilities that are being enabled with these changes, but we've already been seeing more of this with the release of vitric forge. The souped up dropships will just exacerbate the situation. I've resigned myself to dealing with more chatwarrior online while matches are drawn out.

But I have to ask, why the over-the-top rage for all this? I don't think any of this is going to swing a match's outcome unless two relatively close teams are playing and one gets over-aggressive. I can see that you think the changes are unnecessary and a waste of resources from PGI's perspective, but beyond having more of your time wasted while enjoying a time-wasting activity, what's the harm?

[IlKhan Prepaid Kerensky]

Khereg, on 03 June 2015 - 02:00 PM, said:

But I have to ask, why the over-the-top rage for all this?

Because we all like mechwarrior but this game is a joke, just hobbling onward year after year begging for a pipe wrench to the back on the head.

I was pretty optimistic last January but the devs have worked really hard to dissuade me.

[Mystere]

Aethelred Kell, on 03 June 2015 - 11:06 AM, said:

Well this makes defenders on attack mode in Boreal almost unbeatable since the generators and Omega sit so close to the drop points. You can use the drop ships as extra defenders on that map with ease now.

No kidding. We lost a match yesterday on a timeout with only one mech on each side left and the generator close to being destroyed. What a nail-biter.

shad0w4life, on 03 June 2015 - 11:14 AM, said:

Quick Fix I can think of until the spawn locations are moved is

Need a mechanic of "If the attacking team does not cause 15 damage to defending team every two minutes" then the match ends as a loss for attackers regardless.

Something like that, may not be ideal but it would prevent counter attack 1 kill and omega hiding along with 1500m laser for 0.1 Dmg reset timer abuse.

That's extremely too artificial for my taste. So, nope.

Edited by Mystere, 03 June 2015 - 03:25 PM.

[Surn]

Kurita, has patented a new Mech Defense System, it is a steel umbrella. Valuable defending against Lurms and Dropships alike.. it can ONLY be used by House Kurita.

[YCSLiesmith]

Khereg, on 03 June 2015 - 02:00 PM, said:

Glad to see NKVA posting again. i missed you guys.

So, serious question... I don't like the delay tactic possibilities that are being enabled with these changes, but we've already been seeing more of this with the release of vitric forge. The souped up dropships will just exacerbate the situation. I've resigned myself to dealing with more chatwarrior online while matches are drawn out.

But I have to ask, why the over-the-top rage for all this? I don't think any of this is going to swing a match's outcome unless two relatively close teams are playing and one gets over-aggressive. I can see that you think the changes are unnecessary and a waste of resources from PGI's perspective, but beyond having more of your time wasted while enjoying a time-wasting activity, what's the harm?

my own over the top rage is reserved for some of PGI's other ridiculous missteps, with this I'm just contemptuous and a little bit amused at how badly they are ******* things up. I'd rather have a good game that was run well and had well designed maps but i'm glad to see that if they're going to make bad decisions they're devoted to making them the worst possible decisions every single time. it's not my design philosophy but we'll see how it works out for them.

[Khereg]

In trying to see this from PGI's point of view, this (among other variables like map design) feels like a dampening function you'd see in mathematics, except applied to game outcomes. It's a way to boost the performance of less talented teams and inhibit performance from those with more skill, ideally without tipping outcomes one way or the other. In essence, this is taking the place of elo matchmaking in a game mode that doesn't have the mechanics or population to support that kind of approach.

I sympathize with PGI that they have the entire player base to think about, and while we know that ultimately, players need to develop their skill to really achieve the kind of satisfaction they want, many people just aren't ready to face that hard truth about themselves or invest the time and energy it takes to do that. PGI needs them to keep playing and not drop out, so they're left with providing crutches like these.

Like you, I still don't like the specifics of what they're doing since it detracts from my enjoyment of the game, but I understand the line they're trying to walk.

Edited by Khereg, 04 June 2015 - 08:33 AM.

[Revis Volek]

Chef Kerensky, on 03 June 2015 - 10:19 AM, said:

Explain to me in exactly what way NKVA should destroy you so as to be fair. I guarantee you the spawncamping changes will not result in SA beating us. It will only delay the inevitable, one horribly-drawn out 30 minute slugfest at a time.

First of all you have NEVER Spawn Camped us when i was on the team. Maybe your memory is failing you but most matches we have with NKVA win or loss are very close. Dunno where your sense of entitlement is coming from....douche.

I never said I wanted you to do anything, But PGI has made it very clear that spawn camping is not what they want. So you all cry about it...

YCSLiesmith, on 03 June 2015 - 12:29 PM, said:

you lack any and all understanding, DothBenis. spawn camping is 'playing the mode as intended" because to do it you march towards where the enemy is and shoot them until you die, then find new enemies. eventually they are all dead so you march to where they are coming from and shoot them there. it's not a trick, it's just winning the game normally. The 'trick' here is the incredible speed with which bad players manage to get themselves killed, their lack of skill warping the normal functioning of the game so that by the end they are dying as they fall out of their dropships.

what exactly would you have me do? offer duels to enemies? politely not fire my lasers when I see an enemy mech?

how do you think spawn camping happens, darkbepis?

Where in the rules of the mode does it say "YOU MUST SPAWN CAMP TO WIN?"

Bad team will still get spwan camped, just at further ranges or with different tactics then standing in the DS zone like goons to do it.

Where did i say "I" wanted you do to anything again. I see you are all (NKVA) as a whole trying to make this personal and think it cool? or you will get under my skin? I dunno, i think its funny you al act like your 15 really. PGI made the changes, PGI owns the IP, PGI claimed this is not how they wanted the mode played. END of STORY.

You can whine as much as you want but its just sad really....whats the saying around here adapt and overcome the nerf?

[Scoops Kerensky]

DarthRevis, on 03 June 2015 - 09:59 AM, said:

Why not just play the mode as intended instead of trying to find some exploit to give you a leg up? Might tone done that Cheater label you are getting as well.

If you think we dislike people calling us cheaters when we beat them then I don't think you understand the first thing about us.

Khereg, on 04 June 2015 - 07:01 AM, said:

In trying to see this from PGI's point of view, this (among other variables like map design) feels like a dampening function you'd see in mathematics, except applied to game outcomes. It's a way to boost the performance of less talented teams and inhibit performance from those with more skill, ideally without tipping outcomes one way or the other. In essence, this is taking the place of elo matchmaking in a game mode that doesn't have the mechanics or population to support that kind of approach.

I sympathize with PGI that they have the entire player base to think about, and while we know that ultimately, players need to develop their skill to really achieve the kind of satisfaction they want, many people just aren't ready to face that hard truth about themselves or invest the time and energy it takes to do that. PGI needs them to keep playing and not drop out, so they're left with providing crutches like these.

Like you, I still don't like the specifics of what they're doing since it detracts from my enjoyment of the game, but I understand the line they're trying to walk.

I think the main annoyance is that its already dull to play matches where the skill disparity makes the outcome lopsided, so mechanics that draw it out are just another weight to the whole game mode. If you know your team is going to win in the first 5 minutes, who would be happy knowing that the game was patched to make sure it took another 10 minutes to actually finish the match?

[YCSLiesmith]

DarthRevis, on 04 June 2015 - 09:27 AM, said:

First of all you have NEVER Spawn Camped us when i was on the team. Maybe your memory is failing you but most matches we have with NKVA win or loss are very close. Dunno where your sense of entitlement is coming from....douche.

I never said I wanted you to do anything, But PGI has made it very clear that spawn camping is not what they want. So you all cry about it...



Where in the rules of the mode does it say "YOU MUST SPAWN CAMP TO WIN?"

Bad team will still get spwan camped, just at further ranges or with different tactics then standing in the DS zone like goons to do it.

Where did i say "I" wanted you do to anything again. I see you are all (NKVA) as a whole trying to make this personal and think it cool? or you will get under my skin? I dunno, i think its funny you al act like your 15 really. PGI made the changes, PGI owns the IP, PGI claimed this is not how they wanted the mode played. END of STORY.

You can whine as much as you want but its just sad really....whats the saying around here adapt and overcome the nerf?

Well I assumed that when you tell me that spawn camping is somehow wrong, that you want me to change my behavior in some way that will prevent me from spawn camping. Otherwise why even post?

as for the rules, there arent any rules mandating spawn camping. this is obvious. spawn camping can only happen when there's a massive disparity in skill. for example perhaps a team like NKVA might play a lesser, snake-themed team. that lesser team, being inferior in all ways, might find themselves getting spawn camped. fortunately (I guess?) for all concerned that lesser team won't get banned for breaking the rule requiring that you spawn camp, because no such rule exists.

As for PGI making it clear that this is not how they want the game to be played, that's fine. I dont care at all what they want because i am a consumer and not a shill for an inept corporation that doesn't have my interests at heart, but I'm glad they have irrelevant opinions about how the game should feel. The only reason I care is because they're adding in ridiculously stupid elements like dropships that hang around for forever slaying the whole team, though.

A reasonable designer, faced with these problems, would either say 'oh, this is a nonissue' or at worst 'oh, this is a map design/matchmaker issue' and fix it that way. Sadly we're not seeing that and i think it's reasonable, as consumers, to make our concerns known.

Edited by YCSLiesmith, 04 June 2015 - 11:12 AM.