114 replies to this topic

[TLBFestus]

1453 R, on 02 June 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

First of all: there is no such thing as a casual unit in MWO. Stop calling us out on this because THEY DON'T EXIST. I know what a casual group looks like. A casual group is a chillax bunch of cool guys who just hang out when they're around and who don't toss your ass out on the streets because you went to play Witcher 3 for a few weeks instead of MWO all night erry night. They don't have Weekly Trainings, they don't have competitive tiers, they don't have any of that crap. They have members, who will hook up in whatever game they're playing when and as they collectively feel like it. No stress, no hassle, no expectations or Group Membership Failure Conditions. That is a casual group. This game doesn't have any.

Ummm....that's the EXACT description of my "group" of buddies that plays.

[TWIAFU]

Namicus, on 02 June 2015 - 01:02 PM, said:

I'm only speaking to the group queue. Not the CW queue, which is pretty clear if you re-read my first post.

I did read it, you posed the question;

Namicus, on 01 June 2015 - 02:38 PM, said:

Why in the world do we not have 4 man maximum groups in the public group queue? I am so sick and tired of getting rolled by large, insanely competitive and coordinated groups when trying to kick back for some MWO fun in a two man group.

And pointed out that 2-4 man size GROUPS are in BOTH the SOLO and GROUP queue, just like you want, for a year.

Now, if your talking only three 4-man size groups to make up a 12 man size group, then, well, thats just fracking stupid.

If you want your GROUP to be allowed to play in the SOLO queue, that is just as stupid.

[RussianWolf]

TWIAFU, on 03 June 2015 - 09:33 AM, said:

I did read it, you posed the question;



And pointed out that 2-4 man size GROUPS are in BOTH the SOLO and GROUP queue, just like you want, for a year.

Now, if your talking only three 4-man size groups to make up a 12 man size group, then, well, thats just fracking stupid.

If you want your GROUP to be allowed to play in the SOLO queue, that is just as stupid.

You do realize that what you explained is actually out of date now. They removed all groups from the Solo queue because a small group of 2-4 elite players could and will destroy a full team of 12 in short order.

Heck a Solo elite player does major damage in the Solo queue today if you don't focus to take them down quickly. Those guys tend to be very good.

To reiterate.

Solo queue is only people dropping in groups of 1 also called Solo.
Group queue has all groups of any size 2-10 and 12.
CW is anything from 1-12

[Almond Brown]

Yokaiko, on 02 June 2015 - 11:36 AM, said:

They screamed for a good long while afterwards.

But in the end I think it was shown that all those "Stomps" were not being caused solely by the supposed "evil boogeyman" Teams. And the screams continue even with only true Solo play allowed in the Solo queue. Now Team play in the Solo queue. Yup, OP something vicious...

Edited by Almond Brown, 03 June 2015 - 11:15 AM.

[Bilbo]

Almond Brown, on 03 June 2015 - 11:10 AM, said:

But in the end I think it was shown that all those "Stomps" were not being caused solely by the supposed "evil boogeyman" Teams.

It is now the fault of the evil MM.

[Mudhutwarrior]

kamiko kross, on 03 June 2015 - 08:50 AM, said:

Aye I wish more of the anti group guys would see us in our actual light, not some kind of roving band of "tryhards" because most of us really aren't!
Our group drops are "bring what you want to" with 0 pressure to do anything you don't want. the only must do is work together lol.
In fact on several occasions now I've invited some of the vocal anti groupers to come play with my guys and see for themselves, told them they were very welcome on our ts server-they don't have to join the unit only be polite. You know what? out of all the ragers I asked...ZERO of them took me up on my offer.
How are peeps gonna learn any different if they are not even willing to try?

Because you get sick of trying. At least I did. Its all great first few matches usually then goes downhill from there. On the CW side having to contract and take a hit to find you signed with douches stops any trying too. Very few teams are really casual as they say over time.

[Impossible Wasabi]

Interestingly, the Space Pope remembers a time in FPS gaming when it was considered very cheap to stack a team with people from your unit/clan and then stomp public players (good units/clans pretty much only stacked teams in actual comp matches or skirmishes).

Of course, in those days, people simply stopped playing on your server if you and your buddies found it interesting to play in such an "unfair" manner.

Now of course, the Space Pope can see why big units or people with massive friends lists want to drop together, but he does think it is important to see why smaller units or those not rolling deep may find it annoying.

Certainly, at some points during an evening of mechs, the Space Pope gets tired of having to herd several small groups of players against some 9 man on comms.

Edited by The True Space Pope, 03 June 2015 - 11:57 AM.

[Revis Volek]

1453 R, on 02 June 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

I love how the responses to everyone who's begging for some option, any option, to introduce new players to this game without having to go against league-playing ultracomp units every third drop is "LOL F'KIN SCRUB. GIT FRENS, GRWP UP, GIT GUD."

Let me tell you how this looks from the eyes of someone with a job,, actual friends, and more games than MWO installed on his machine.

First of all: there is no such thing as a casual unit in MWO. Stop calling us out on this because THEY DON'T EXIST. I know what a casual group looks like. A casual group is a chillax bunch of cool guys who just hang out when they're around and who don't toss your ass out on the streets because you went to play Witcher 3 for a few weeks instead of MWO all night erry night. They don't have Weekly Trainings, they don't have competitive tiers, they don't have any of that crap. They have members, who will hook up in whatever game they're playing when and as they collectively feel like it. No stress, no hassle, no expectations or Group Membership Failure Conditions. That is a casual group. This game doesn't have any.

So i guess you have played with EVERY single Unit that exists in this game (all 250+) and none of them fit that bill....

Well i know for a FACT you have never came by and played with the Smoke Adders on Strana Mechty....OUr Gal Comm has been away with RL **** for almost 2 months now and do you wanna know how mnay ***** we give?

ZERO!

Because we are here to play the game, not take orders and play MWO army. Its a game bro and frankly you have NO IDEA what you are talking about. Come down to Strana Mechty sometime and see how we play before you go painting us all with your **** colored brush.


Outside of comp stuff i can run what i want, do what i want, Mechlab all night, play solo, CW with another Unit. No one cares, because we are FRIENDS first and Pilots second. Never once has someone bounced me from a group because i was running my Urbies.

Edited by DarthRevis, 03 June 2015 - 12:26 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

The True Space Pope, on 03 June 2015 - 11:49 AM, said:

Interestingly, the Space Pope remembers a time in FPS gaming when it was considered very cheap to stack a team with people from your unit/clan and then stomp public players (good units/clans pretty much only stacked teams in actual comp matches or skirmishes).

Of course, in those days, people simply stopped playing on your server if you and your buddies found it interesting to play in such an "unfair" manner.

Now of course, the Space Pope can see why big units or people with massive friends lists want to drop together, but he does think it is important to see why smaller units or those not rolling deep may find it annoying.

Certainly, at some points during an evening of mechs, the Space Pope gets tired of having to herd several small groups of players against some 9 man on comms.

I do not understand the thinking here Pope.

Its a team game
with the objective of winning

So why is it bad sportsmanship to play the game as intended?

[Mudhutwarrior]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 June 2015 - 03:26 AM, said:

I do not understand the thinking here Pope.

Its a team game
with the objective of winning

So why is it bad sportsmanship to play the game as intended?

Yeah slaughter is fun with friends. I missed that in school.

You build a team to face a challenge as far as I knew. In your view its all about the team even if there is no real need. We had a name for that in school too but its not for a polite public. Quick bring your towel to the showers, team sports to begin.

Edited by Mudhutwarrior, 04 June 2015 - 03:34 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mudhutwarrior, on 04 June 2015 - 03:31 AM, said:

Yeah slaughter is fun with friends. I missed that in school.

You build a team to face a challenge as far as I knew. In your view its all about the team even if there is no real need. We had a name for that in school too but its not for a polite public. Quick bring your towel to the showers, team sports to begin.

I was that kid in school! Then I grew up and kicked the crap out of rest of them. All depends on what you learn from those kinds of situations.

In a D&D game 4-6 players play against one.

On TT I used to play 3 on 3 using 12 Mechs per side. Someone always lost in both scenarios. If you play a game as a PUG you should expect anything to happen and in Groups you should expect the better team to win. If they are that much better to be stomped.

Then you should be mature enough to accept that You are not "the Best" and take a lesson from the beating you were given.

FYI during a Initiation on the High school wrestling team The team pinned me down and gave me a "pink belly"

That is until I actually fought back. You never seen guys run so fast as they did when an Adrenalin rage let me one arm throw the team's heavy weight off me. If you think like a victim you are. I'm nobody's victim.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 04 June 2015 - 03:42 AM.

[TWIAFU]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 June 2015 - 03:26 AM, said:

I do not understand the thinking here Pope.

Its a team game
with the objective of winning

So why is it bad sportsmanship to play the game as intended?

It's bad sportsmanship because you are doing something, playing with friends, that others are not or will not.


You are a bad sport because you will not play all by yourself. Your a bad sport because you use teamwork, VOIP, and maybe even LFG to play while other's won't.

How can you be allowed to excel using all the tools at your disposal while other with the same options will not?

Not very sporting of you to not realize that the team is not important, it is the individual.

[Joseph Mallan]

TWIAFU, on 04 June 2015 - 03:44 AM, said:

It's bad sportsmanship because you are doing something, playing with friends, that others are not or will not.


You are a bad sport because you will not play all by yourself. Your a bad sport because you use teamwork, VOIP, and maybe even LFG to play while other's won't.

How can you be allowed to excel using all the tools at your disposal while other with the same options will not?

Not very sporting of you to not realize that the team is not important, it is the individual.

Funny I have played mostly solo for the last 2 years and I still hold that the better team is supposed to win every time. No matter teh opposition.

[TWIAFU]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 June 2015 - 03:38 AM, said:

I was that kid in school! Then I grew up and kicked the crap out of rest of them. All depends on what you learn from those kinds of situations.

I didn't kick the crap outta them, they just work for me now.

They are learning from that situation, every day.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 June 2015 - 03:38 AM, said:

I was that kid in school! Then I grew up and kicked the crap out of rest of them. All depends on what you learn from those kinds of situations.

In a D&D game 4-6 players play against one.

On TT I used to play 3 on 3 using 12 Mechs per side. Someone always lost in both scenarios. If you play a game as a PUG you should expect anything to happen and in Groups you should expect the better team to win. If they are that much better to be stomped.

Then you should be mature enough to accept that You are not "the Best" and take a lesson from the beating you were given.

Sure if it was remotely fair. We have seen enough over the years here to say that The bullies do their level best to rule the roost. Lately though high horses are being exposed like with the cheating scandal. We even see them blame their kids for the cheating and the defenders (other Bullies) come to defend them. It's glorious!

I don't think anyone wants to eliminate teams but rather reduce the odds of dropping into a slaughter only to be told get better by those who massacre.

Now that we know for a fact that many of the get better faction where getting better on the sly maybe its time to push harder for fair and equitable and stop with the crap that its a team game. Everyone and their playstyle should be able to fit under this tent and have fun. That should be the goal. Not its a team game and if you don't like it we will beat the life out of you.

With some thought and planning we can make it better for teams and the guys who want to drop solo and casual. Until we can push the my way or the highway crowd aside that won't happen.

[TWIAFU]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 June 2015 - 03:46 AM, said:

Funny I have played mostly solo for the last 2 years and I still hold that the better team is supposed to win every time. No matter teh opposition.

Oh, so you play with yourself then?

Your a good sport then...

[Joseph Mallan]

Mudhutwarrior, on 04 June 2015 - 03:46 AM, said:

Sure if it was remotely fair. We have seen enough over the years here to say that The bullies do their level best to rule the roost. Lately though high horses are being exposed like with the cheating scandal. We even see them blame their kids for the cheating and the defenders (other Bullies) come to defend them. It's glorious!

I don't think anyone wants to eliminate teams but rather reduce the odds of dropping into a slaughter only to be told get better by those who massacre.

Now that we know for a fact that many of the get better faction where getting better on the sly maybe its time to push harder for fair and equitable and stop with the crap that its a team game. Everyone and their playstyle should be able to fit under this tent and have fun. That should be the goal. Not its a team game and if you don't like it we will beat the life out of you.

With some thought and planning we can make it better for teams and the guys who want to drop solo and casual. Until we can push the my way or the highway crowd aside that won't happen.

I have yet to see a bully once force me to be anything less than I want to be Mud.

Cheaters are getting what they deserve.

Yes Everyone's playstyle can fit in this game If they actually take the time to learn how to do it good. But Lets face it some people are not meant to play a certain style. I should never drive lights. If I wanted to be a light pilot and suck, I should be mature enough to accept that I will suck in one until I L2P Lights.

TWIAFU, on 04 June 2015 - 03:48 AM, said:

Oh, so you play with yourself then?

Your a good sport then...

I've been married for 28 years. I'll let you fill in the graphics of that.

TWIAFU, on 04 June 2015 - 03:46 AM, said:

I didn't kick the crap outta them, they just work for me now.

They are learning from that situation, every day.

That is actually the best vengeance TW.

[Jon Gotham]

Mudhutwarrior, on 04 June 2015 - 03:46 AM, said:

Sure if it was remotely fair. We have seen enough over the years here to say that The bullies do their level best to rule the roost. Lately though high horses are being exposed like with the cheating scandal. We even see them blame their kids for the cheating and the defenders (other Bullies) come to defend them. It's glorious!

I don't think anyone wants to eliminate teams but rather reduce the odds of dropping into a slaughter only to be told get better by those who massacre.

Now that we know for a fact that many of the get better faction where getting better on the sly maybe its time to push harder for fair and equitable and stop with the crap that its a team game. Everyone and their playstyle should be able to fit under this tent and have fun. That should be the goal. Not its a team game and if you don't like it we will beat the life out of you.

With some thought and planning we can make it better for teams and the guys who want to drop solo and casual. Until we can push the my way or the highway crowd aside that won't happen.

If you exclude all the wierd stuff about bullies!? (EH!?)and the veiled anti group patter....you have some points. But if you take your last sentence, sit down and have a good look at it-that is exactly what many of the pro solo guys ARE saying. What is causing all the debate is not the point you and others are making matey as even I kind of agree with you from a business sense but rather the logic and self deceit behind the argument of those points.
As the game is currently designed....ALL modes outside of solo mode are DESIGNED WITH TEAM PLAY IN MIND. That is an immutable fact. People are CHOOSING to not partake of that design ethic and are then complaining about said results of their OWN CHOICE. They blame anyone else as long it's not themselves. It's PGI's fault, it's premades' fault it's the space cow living on the moon...it's shameful. Some of the silly attitude I've seen directed at team players has shocked me with it's pettiness.
Take me and my "premades" for example. A typical Kurita premade consists of: A couple of duos from a few units. Maybe once in a while a 4 man and the rest? ALL solo NON UNIT players. Only differences from a 12 man pug? They spend 10 mins getting on a TS server saying "hi guys" and be willing to work together with the other 11 people. This is why I personally, have such little empathy with solo guys complaining about solo failing in a group oriented mode. It's so easy to rectify and takes so little time it's not even funny. The only thing preventing the solution of the problem is poor attitude from certain players.

The horse will die of dehydration after you lead it to the water it seems.

The potential downsides of tying the solo queue into CW is it will encourage more and more solo play, which is an awful idea from a community standpoint and awful for a social standpoint too. It might also lead to groups giving up due to not finding as many matches thus accelerating a very serious problem. 30% (guestimate:P) of the playerbase and "probably" the greater paying portion of the playerbase might just drift off....having many players is not essentially success for PGI, but they should be promoting MWO far more than they should be...

Any solution besides the players themselves sorting their attitude out will need to accommodate EVERYONE fairly and equally, not just solo players. After all you already have a solo mode...which I think needs more things adding to it-but not at the expense of group play. WoT does not have this problem, WT does not have this problem..GW2 does not have this problem....why does MWO?

[Soy]

NEVER STOP THE INSANITY

GalaxyBluestar, on 25 February 2013 - 09:18 PM, said:

[LordBraxton]

By design, MWO will usually involve stomps. People blamed 4 mans just like they have, and will always, blame mechs being OP for their stomping. I vote for 2 man groups in the solo queue so you can train newbies.