66 replies to this topic

[Templar Dane]

Double or triple the cooldown, remove the charge up. It's dps goes waaaaaaay down, still a good tool for sniping. So, it still has peeking power but terrible in a brawl.

[Ace Selin]

Gauss is perfect just the way it is, kay, thx

[happy mech]

no

p.s.: biggest font, won

[Ultimax]

jaxjace, on 02 June 2015 - 02:23 AM, said:

However a terribly huge number of people seem to think its overpowered

Those people are scrubs.

They think it's overpowered because they are scrubs, and everything feels overpowered to them when it kills them.

They blame weapons and game mechanics and HSR and cheats for their deaths - absolutely anything except facing the fact that they were killed either because they made mistakes or their team completely collapsed.



Gauss is fine. It's a 12/15 ton ammo reliant weapon with a charge up mechanic and can explode.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 03 June 2015 - 04:17 AM.

[jaxjace]

lol at the people who didnt even read all of the first post. I did say i think its relatively fine where it is. the one and ONLY change i would advocate for myself would be to drastically increase the cooldown between being able to charge another shot. It does need higher risk to the high reward it offers.

[Dr Hobo]

Remove the ability to fire energy weapons with it or just after it.

Lore reason.

Still has to charge,but if it's not charged when destroyed then there is no critical explosion done.

[Khobai]

I'd like to see gauss chargeup removed and gauss max range reduced from x3 to x2. The main problem with gauss is that it severely outranges LRMs when its supposed to have about the same range as LRMs. Gauss should also have its min range enforced like PPCs and LRMs do. Its unfair to impose min range on those other weapons but then not impose it on gauss, which is a much better weapon.


Battletech:
LRM = 21 hexes
Gauss = 22 hexes

MWO:
LRM = not really effective past 500m-600m due to slowass missile speed (does no damage at all past 1000m)
Gauss w/ range module = full damage out to 726m (does partial damage out to 2178m!)


LRMs also dont really benefit from their range module because LRMs are slowwwwww and the range module doesnt also increase missile top speed like it should.

See how out of whack the ranges are compared to tabletop? Gauss max range definitely needs to be reduced to help bring Gauss back into parity with LRMs

Edited by Khobai, 03 June 2015 - 07:28 AM.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

Lore or no lore, minimum ranges don't make any sense on direct-fire weapons. Not on PPCs (what, does the particle stream just magic into existence 90m away from the 'Mech?) and especially not on Gauss, which is pure kinetic energy in a solid slug with no warhead component. The laws of physics require that it do more damage at the moment it exits the barrel, because that is the instant where it ceases to accelerate, but has not yet lost mass or velocity to atmospheric friction, and therefore has the most kinetic energy.

Minimum ranges make sense on LRMs, because when they leave the launcher their warheads have not yet armed, and they have not yet reached a velocity sufficient to punch through 'Mech armor. That makes sense (although a steep damage falloff simulating the kinetic impact of an unarmed missile would make more sense).

Edited by PS WrathOfDeadguy, 03 June 2015 - 07:47 AM.

[Dr Hobo]

PS WrathOfDeadguy, on 03 June 2015 - 07:46 AM, said:

Lore or no lore, minimum ranges don't make any sense on direct-fire weapons. Not on PPCs (what, does the particle stream just magic into existence 90m away from the 'Mech?) and especially not on Gauss, which is pure kinetic energy in a solid slug with no warhead component. The laws of physics require that it do more damage at the moment it exits the barrel, because that is the instant where it ceases to accelerate, but has not yet lost mass or velocity to atmospheric friction, and therefore has the most kinetic energy.

Minimum ranges make sense on LRMs, because when they leave the launcher their warheads have not yet armed, and they have not yet reached a velocity sufficient to punch through 'Mech armor. That makes sense (although a steep damage falloff simulating the kinetic impact of an unarmed missile would make more sense).

in the olden days,close range PPC brawling would mess up your mech too. The feedback damaged sensors and could damage your PPCS.

Hence,the reason why ER PPC were made.

As for the LRM or Gauss to have minimum range,that's stupid. Clans don't have it,they just do less damage closer.

[Kassatsu]

Honestly, gauss is fine. It's easy to aim, has a charge-up to make it impossible for people who haven't ever played an FPS game before to use and does acceptable damage for the weight and crit space you sacrifice to bring it. Not to mention the massive risk 100% guarantee of it exploding half a second after the component it's in loses its armor.

[Christof Romulus]

jaxjace, on 02 June 2015 - 02:23 AM, said:

Personally I think its fine as it is. but I will admit it is very easy to use over other weapons. However a terribly huge number of people seem to think its overpowered, this suggestion is to both quell dissent about the OP whiners and to change up the meta/spread out builds that are commonly encountered.

What if we reduced the gauss rifles health all the way down to ONE.

IN EXCHANGE. remove charge up.

BONUS* add charge to PPCs, increase their velocity.

I would LIKE to say "FOR THE LAST TIME..." before this post, but that's just not going to happen.

The Gauss charge mechanic does TWO things:
1. De-synch it from that sweet, sweet Alpha strike. (What you seem to be posting about)
2. Prevent it from being a brawling weapon. (What you seem to be ignoring willfully)

Who cares if the Gauss has 1 hitpoint, when it has a number of hitpoints equal to your ARMOR VALUE? Every mech that even considers using the AC 20 will swap that BACK to the Gauss rifle. Oh, and I say BACK because the last time the Gauss didn't have a charge up, the AC 20 was an endangered species.

Without a charge up time, the Gauss Rifle is THE single ballistic weapon in the GAME - outperforming literally all other ballistic weapons at their task. Far more damage than the AC 2 at any range the AC 2 exists, far more DPS than the AC 5 and on UAC 5 (barely), and outright superior to the AC 10. Vs the AC 20, the Gauss generates 1 point of heat for 15 damage instead of 6 for 20 - meaning the REST of your loadout can be even hotter without risk of overheat.

No. No. NO damn it. The Charge mechanic isn't going freaking anywhere, and it shouldn't.

[Bobzilla]

DarthRevis, on 02 June 2015 - 07:40 AM, said:

I dont see many people who this gauss as a brawler weapon....what game are you guys playing?




This will change nothing, i dont see people useing gauss over the ac20 in brawls....again......i dont know what game you guys are playing.

I've seen and used gauss very effectivly in a brawl, however, i've never seen an AC20 used as an affective long range weapon.
In fact, every mech i've ever seen with a gauss, when it finds itself in a brawl, uses said gauss as a brawler weapon.
It does it's damage at close and long range, it has no strategic weakness, unlike an AC20 which can just be kept away from, or get close to a PPC, cover for LRMs, roll lasers.....

PS WrathOfDeadguy, on 03 June 2015 - 07:46 AM, said:

Lore or no lore, minimum ranges don't make any sense on direct-fire weapons. Not on PPCs (what, does the particle stream just magic into existence 90m away from the 'Mech?) and especially not on Gauss, which is pure kinetic energy in a solid slug with no warhead component. The laws of physics require that it do more damage at the moment it exits the barrel, because that is the instant where it ceases to accelerate, but has not yet lost mass or velocity to atmospheric friction, and therefore has the most kinetic energy.

Minimum ranges make sense on LRMs, because when they leave the launcher their warheads have not yet armed, and they have not yet reached a velocity sufficient to punch through 'Mech armor. That makes sense (although a steep damage falloff simulating the kinetic impact of an unarmed missile would make more sense).

The Gauss round comes out super heated, making it semi-soft for the first hundred meters till it cools and hardens.

PPCs shoot particles, that draw in electrons around them. It's the resistance to the electrons hitting a target that cause the damage, so if the particles haven't traveled far enough, there isn't enough of a charge to cause damage.

I don't know. But there's lots of stuff that makes zero logic for the sake of a game.

[Chuck Jager]

DarthRevis, on 02 June 2015 - 07:40 AM, said:

I dont see many people who this gauss as a brawler weapon....what game are you guys playing?

This will change nothing, i dont see people useing gauss over the ac20 in brawls....again......i dont know what game you guys are playing.

I run into Direwolves with dual gauss in brawling range all the time and find a ton more Dual Gauss Jags over dual 20s. I replaced my Ac20 on my Atlas for a gauss and found I did better in brawls because I could alpha 3 more times than before, and I could actually help my team before one side was already up by 5. On clan mechs you have an extra 3 tons that should go to cermlas and the low heat combined with the laser pointer element makes it the perfect weapon at all ranges. I love the quirked grid iron, but I will probably change to the first clan mech that has high mount gauss laser points, because the weight, heat and damage combo at the best ranges with few drawbacks is incredible.

[Khobai]

Quote

Lore or no lore, minimum ranges don't make any sense on direct-fire weapons.

From a realistic standpoint... walking mechs dont make sense either. So the whole game doesnt make sense.

But realism is irrelevant. Gauss didnt have min range because it "made sense". It had min range for game balance reasons. It was so Gauss had a short-range vulnerability and forced you to take a mixed loadout to cover that vulnerability.

The bigger problem though is the inconsistent and arbitrary treatment of weapons with min ranges. Why is it enforced for some weapons but not others? Gauss being stronger than PPCs seems like there would be more reason to enforce its min range.

Either min range should be enforced for all weapons with min ranges or it shouldnt exist at all.

Quote

1. De-synch it from that sweet, sweet Alpha strike. (What you seem to be posting about)

2. Prevent it from being a brawling weapon. (What you seem to be ignoring willfully)

Except it does neither of those things.

What de-syncd gauss from ppcs was lowering ppc velocity. its still 100% possible to sync gauss and ppc but only at short to medium range and not at long range because the different projectile speeds makes the projectiles seperate out.

Chargeup also doesnt prevent gauss from being a brawling weapon. You can just use a macro to automate the charging and firing of gauss so you can focus on brawling with your other weapons.

Gauss chargeup is an ill-conceived and infuriating weapon mechanic and should be removed. period. Gauss should instead be balanced by lowering is max range and possibly enforcing its tabletop min range.

Edited by Khobai, 03 June 2015 - 08:13 AM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

If anything, Gauss needs a net buff. It's the heaviest weapon in the game, it has the least health, it blows up when you fart too hard, when it blows up it takes the arm or torso with it and chops your mech in half, and it has a charge up mechanic.

I'd love to see it get it's 10 health back, go back down to the same percent chance to explode as ammo, removal of the charge mechanic, and have it's rate of fire bumped from 4.75 to 6 seconds.

[Gas Guzzler]

I just think it shouldn't explode if it is destroyed before you charge it. I mean.. There is no energy before you charge it so where does the explosion come from?

[Lightfoot]

LordKnightFandragon, on 02 June 2015 - 03:02 PM, said:

Gauss Changes I personally would make

Remove charge
VElocity nerf to like 1500ms
Cool down to 8s,

its heavy, sure, but its also 15 dmg for 1 heat. So, yeah, long CD to offset that. LOwer velocity, still pretty fast, but you might need a little more lead, and that charge....yeah, I hate that charge.

Yes, I would buff PPCs to like 1200-1300ms velocity.

I like all that except 8 seconds is too long. The Gauss Rifle already had the lowest DPS per payload ton used of any weapon in MWO at 4 seconds. 5.5 to 6, but no higher than 6 seconds. 5.5 would be perfect, but MWO's mechs are pretty fragile as MechWarrior games go so maybe 5.75. You want the Gauss to remain a solid weapon that works in the right tactical application, which is long range, but struggles to compete at short range.

[Water Bear]

Alistair Winter, on 02 June 2015 - 07:05 AM, said:

The only solution I would be happy with, would be to lower rate of fire. Increase cooldown. The issue isn't that gauss rifles are overpowered. But in FPS terms, they're sniper weapons being used for brawling. If your game has a sniper rifle that is equally effective at point blank, then you're doing something wrong. There needs to be incentive to use other weapons at close range.

Which brings us to the actual disease, of which the anti-gauss hatred is a symptom.

Ballistics (and LRMs) are in a bad place. The gauss rifle just looks good by comparison, because the whole point of ballistics is to trade extra weight for less heat, and yet AC20s and AC10s are extremely hot, to the point where everyone just prefers to carry gauss rifles. Gauss rifle + lasers is one of the few good examples of synergy between weapon types in MWO.

I mean, ballistics aren't completely broken, obviously. Most people use different ACs and UACs and do well with them. But overall, on average, gauss rifles are simply better. And min-maxing players are less likely to slap an AC on their Cataphract for the sake of nostalgia, rather than equip a gauss rifle or just boat lasers.

I'm late the party here but: Nah, breh.

Gauss rifles are still usable at point blank but they are not better than an ac/20 or even an ac/10 at short range. Their DPS isn't actually that good.

Gauss rifle DPS: 3.16. AC/10: 4, AC/20: 5.

I've said this in other threads about the Gauss, I'll say it again here: The Gauss rifle is kind of like a ballistic LRM. It's actual DPS is good for a long ranged weapon but if you close with a mech that's heavily based on gauss rifles you are more or less guaranteed to out-DPS it, especially if your ride has back up short range weapons.

Classic example: the 2x gauss 2x ppc whale is stronk at range, but if you get a -DDC Atlas (ac/20 + 18 srms) to within 270 meters, the DPS of the Whale is 7.5+6.32 = 13.82 and that of the -DDC is 5+9.69=14.69. That's right kids, a -DDC Atlas out shoots a double gauss, double ppc whale at knife fight range.

So the strategy for over coming a gauss heavy OpFor is the same as for over coming an LRM heavy OpFor -- close with them, and start swinging knuckles.

Edited by Water Bear, 03 June 2015 - 09:01 AM.

[King Chimera]

The gauss is fine how it is except that a madium laser will destroy it as soon as you lose your armor. If there should be any changed to a weapon it should be the ac2, it's not very useful as of now. Maybe if PGI actually did something about the tonnage it would be worth taking.

[Alistair Winter]

Water Bear, on 03 June 2015 - 08:57 AM, said:

I'm late the party here but: Nah, breh.

Gauss rifles are still usable at point blank but they are not better than an ac/20 or even an ac/10 at short range. Their DPS isn't actually that good.

Gauss rifle DPS: 3.16. AC/10: 4, AC/20: 5.

I've said this in other threads about the Gauss, I'll say it again here: The Gauss rifle is kind of like a ballistic LRM. It's actual DPS is good for a long ranged weapo but if you close with a mech that's heavily based on gauss rifles you are more or less guaranteed to out-DPS it, especially if your ride has back up short range weapons.

Classic example: the 2x gauss 2x ppc whale is stronk at range, but if you get a -DDC Atlas (ac/20 + 18 srms) to within 270 meters, the DPS of the Whale is 7.5+6.32 = 13.82 and that of the -DDC is 5+9.69=14.69. That's right kids, a -DDC Atlas out shoots a double gauss, double ppc whale at knife fight range.

So the strategy for over coming a gauss heavy OP For is the same as for over coming an LRM heavy Op for -- close with them, and start swinging knuckles.

I dare say you're missing the point entirely. The fact that the AC20 has more DPS than the gauss is overcome by the fact that the gauss has virtually no heat. This means that the mech as whole, often carrying 4 or 5 medium lasers, will have higher DPS. You have to look broader, you have to consider the meta builds as a whole.

The issue is not the Gauss Jager or the Gauss+PPC Dire Wolves. Those are specialists and they do indeed lack DPS. I'm talking more about the laservomit Dire Wolves, Hellbringers, Timber Wolves, Misery hero mechs, etc. The mechs that do benefit from a combination of laservomit and gauss rifles.

The AC20 is way too hot to combine with 5-6 lasers, which is part of the reason you rarely see it on those builds. You'll see it more often on builds like the King Crab and Atlas, which don't have enough energy hardpoints to do laservomit + gauss. (Although King Crabs with dual gauss and 3-4 lasers are relatively common)