60 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

Escef, on 02 June 2015 - 08:41 PM, said:

Casting aside the other comments (I was here then, as well, I know there were plenty of issues), I don't see the Raven's leg hitboxes as being the huge detriment you seem to think they are.

It was an example of a robot where PGI can't/won't/doesn't want to change a mech's geometry, so quick-fixes like quirks get used instead.

[SamsungNinja]

xXBagheeraXx, on 02 June 2015 - 06:45 PM, said:

See this is where you are screwing up.

NOT EVERYONE WHO PLAYS THIS GAME PLAYS FOR THE COMPETITIVE CRAP...

I have played 0 cw games to date. My plans for the future? 0 cw games...

Does the mech boat missiles well?

Yes.

Does the mech make for a fast, mobile long range missile platform?

Yes.

What is the issue here?

Well you see this mech is never picked for competative drops because laser voitm....STOP

STOP RIGHT THERE.

IT doesn't need it.

So you actively don't engage in half of the game. And you're... proud(?) of that?

In all seriousness, though, I'm not saying it needs to be a tankathon, but when twisting to spread damage, the MDDs survive woefully less damage than a Catapult. The 'pults ears are huge targets, yes. They house most of the heavy weapons, yes, but they're just arms. You can lose them both and stay in the game with your pew pew lasers.

I've rarely lost my arms in a MDD. Additionally, I rarely die to CT cores. It's almost always the torsos that pop and end the thing. With the current size of those torsos, twisting doesn't really spread the damage, it just further exposes your weakest point.

At least the Catapults' big damn ears can shield and spread. The MDD has no such luxury. The closest comparison would maybe be the K2. And if you're running ballistics, the K2s ears can go and you're not really affected.

Just my $0.02

[Escef]

FupDup, on 02 June 2015 - 08:43 PM, said:

It was an example of a robot where PGI can't/won't/doesn't want to change a mech's geometry, so quick-fixes like quirks get used instead.

You stated it was an "issue". I don't know of anyone else that sees it that way.

[FupDup]

Escef, on 02 June 2015 - 08:46 PM, said:

You stated it was an "issue". I don't know of anyone else that sees it that way.

There have been threads and memes about it, like a photoshopped concept art that replaced the Raven's legs with those of the Catapult. Good times... It's just faded away into obscurity as people have found new things to call overpowered or whatever.

The fact that 2 Raven variants got good weapon quirks (Huginn and 2X) is a contributing factor to fewer Raven leg complaints, and every variant got +8 internal structure per leg.

[Escef]

SamsungNinja, on 02 June 2015 - 08:44 PM, said:

I've rarely lost my arms in a MDD. Additionally, I rarely die to CT cores. It's almost always the torsos that pop and end the thing.

Wait, lemme see if I got this straight... You're complaining that you are dieing to around 140 damage (losing BOTH side torsos) instead of dieing to around 106 damage (CT coring)?

Are you insane?

FupDup, on 02 June 2015 - 08:49 PM, said:

There have been threads and memes about it, like a photoshopped concept art that replaced the Raven's legs with those of the Catapult.

Honestly, I don't care what most of the whiners in this game want to spill their tears over. I'd say they cry and whine like spoiled children, but I have to admit that spoiled children are made of sterner stuff than these supposedly grown-a** men.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Escef, on 02 June 2015 - 08:50 PM, said:

Wait, lemme see if I got this straight... You're complaining that you are dieing to around 140 damage (losing BOTH side torsos) instead of dieing to around 106 damage (CT coring)?

Are you insane?

It has the profile to spread damage as well as the Stalker/TWolf, it just doesn't have a wide enough CT to support it as much as it could.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 02 June 2015 - 08:56 PM.

[SamsungNinja]

Escef, on 02 June 2015 - 08:52 PM, said:

Wait, lemme see if I got this straight... You're complaining that you are dieing to around 140 damage (losing BOTH side torsos) instead of dieing to around 106 damage (CT coring)?

Are you insane?

Not whining.

But, I can soak that much damage in a Nova and maintain full combat effectiveness. I just feel like a 60 tonner should be able to compare. Particularly since it's land-bound and fat.

[Escef]

SamsungNinja, on 02 June 2015 - 09:26 PM, said:

Not whining.

But, I can soak that much damage in a Nova and maintain full combat effectiveness. I just feel like a 60 tonner should be able to compare. Particularly since it's land-bound and fat.

If you can soak more in a Nova that is purely a function of shape. (And even with quirks taking both side torsos off of a Nova is about 136, compared to 140 for the Mad Dog. Not to mention the Nova CT hitbox is kinda large, and frequently the mech can be dropped by around 90 damage.)

[Dr Hobo]

The Mad Dog and Nova need a bit of love.

Wonky hit boxes need to go or be fixed. With my Prime I always get creamed for losing torsos. Same in the Nova oddly.

[SamsungNinja]

Escef, on 02 June 2015 - 09:36 PM, said:

If you can soak more in a Nova that is purely a function of shape. (And even with quirks taking both side torsos off of a Nova is about 136, compared to 140 for the Mad Dog. Not to mention the Nova CT hitbox is kinda large, and frequently the mech can be dropped by around 90 damage.)

The nova's JJs and chunky arms allow its legs and arms to soak up a lot of damage intended for CT, in addition to your simple math for CT armor. Don't forget structure as well. I'm often missing armor on every component of my nova before I die (I do usually have rear CT armor left, though). I've been as low as 36% with full combat effectiveness.

There is no way in Zeus's ******** that I could pull that off regularly in a Mad Dog. Its lack of JJs make it far more vulnerable than a 'mech 10 tons lighter than it, and it's got a LT/RT that are almost the size of an entire Nova.

Like, how are you even debating this? Great. You can add CT/LT/RT armor and declare that as the amount of dmg it takes to drop a 'mech. Thankfully, that's not the case a lot of the time, although I'm certainly guilty of being a derp and staring at a 'mech too long while piloting my Novas, and boop--I'm CT stripped or lose a torso.

I'm not a perfect pilot. In fact, I have really bad clinical ADHD and concentration and patience aren't my strong suits. Therefore, if I can roll 2x the damage in a 50 tonner vs. a 60 tonner, then that tells me something's b0rked with the MDD.

Just look at the hitboxes. those torsos are the most prevalent feature no matter what direction the 'mech is facing. This isn't a suggestion to buff them into dominant meta, it's saying. "Hey, this 'mech and its Rosie O'Donnel-sized diabetes torsos feel a little underwhelming, and a little more durability to the fatal flaw in this 'mech might make it a little more popular."

As it stands, there's no real reason to take an MDD over a Stormcrow or a Nova outside of LRM boating. Its softy sides make it inferior to the streak crow, even if it can pack on another missle launcher and some additional pew pew lasers.

Hell, my Summoners outperform my MDDs constantly. Don't get me wrong, I love my MDDs, but I play them knowing that I can't enter half the situations I could on nearly any other 'mech.

TL;DR: Due to underperforming every other (clan) 'mech +/- 10 tons , the fat kid torsos on the MDDs could use a little structure or armor quirking, nothing insane (8-10) to allow them to roll just a little more damage before popping like a like a shiny metal zit.

Edit: I typically play a flanker/striker role and the MDD just looks like it should fit right into that, but instead its relegated to this TT support role that translates into MWO rather poorly.

Edited by SamsungNinja, 03 June 2015 - 01:16 AM.

[xXBagheeraXx]

This whole thread to me is akin to dire wolf pilots complaining about their center torso being too big...DO YOU SEE the size of the dammed thing?

You can hit it at any bloody angle. And if they change the profile to where youc an roll damage and give you st buffs you are just going to get CT cored. then there will be whining about that and more unneeded structure buffs.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

xXBagheeraXx, on 03 June 2015 - 01:06 AM, said:

This whole thread to me is akin to dire wolf pilots complaining about their center torso being too big...DO YOU SEE the size of the dammed thing?

You can hit it at any bloody angle. And if they change the profile to where youc an roll damage and give you st buffs you are just going to get CT cored. then there will be whining about that and more unneeded structure buffs.

The difference here being that the Dire Wolf's CT was fixed shortly after it was released, it generally loses a side torso before it loses its CT.

If anything, the Mad Dog is more like the Stalker, but with high mounted missiles instead of lasers. The major problem with this is that it lacks high mounted TAG making it unsuitable (compared to other LRM mechs) for that. Thus why it is generally more oriented for brawling where low mounted weapons are less of an issue and where it can strike with massive firepower, unfortunately with its nose this makes it incredibly fragile as it absorbs all the damage to those sections and can't roll damage anything like the Summoner or Timber Wolf can (thing seems to tank even better than the TWolf).

[x Marder x]

MeiSooHaityu, on 02 June 2015 - 08:16 AM, said:

Sure. I'd like a huge buff to Catapult CT armor and Internals too. I also feel that a Catapult is a brawler at heart. It is just waiting for the massive quirks to get it there.

Witch he will not get. Cat is a support mech not a mech of the line.

Jop is throwing LRM'S the vulter shold be a littel better then cat but still its a suport mech.

[MeiSooHaityu]

x Marder x, on 03 June 2015 - 01:40 AM, said:

Witch he will not get. Cat is a support mech not a mech of the line.

Jop is throwing LRM'S the vulter shold be a littel better then cat but still its a suport mech.

Yea, I was being very sarcastic .

The brawler comment on the Mad Dog just made me laugh though, so I had to pick another support mech to call a brawler.

First sentence on Sarna.net concerning the Mad Dog...

"The Mad Dog is a heavy Clan OmniMech used for long-range indirect fire support." - Sarna.net

[Joseph Mallan]

MeiSooHaityu, on 03 June 2015 - 04:05 AM, said:

Yea, I was being very sarcastic .

The brawler comment on the Mad Dog just made me laugh though, so I had to pick another support mech to call a brawler.

First sentence on Sarna.net concerning the Mad Dog...

"The Mad Dog is a heavy Clan OmniMech used for long-range indirect fire support." - Sarna.net

Unless its the twin Gauss variant. then its a Long range sniper or dueling Mech.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Joseph Mallan, on 03 June 2015 - 04:06 AM, said:

Unless its the twin Gauss variant. then its a Long range sniper or dueling Mech.

Oooh. Fancy

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 03 June 2015 - 04:12 AM.

[EightBitKnight]

Joseph Mallan, on 02 June 2015 - 02:55 AM, said:

good to see your still around trying talk sense.

Ahem
The Mad dog is a mid to long range support mech, it is not meant to brawl. It does this job quite well if you equip it and pilot right. Too many people on here want every mech tough enough to brawl. Learn the mechs role on the battlefield, use it as it was intended and stop B***ing.

You know spotting for people is as easy as hitting {R} to target the enemy ( which seems like a Taboo thing right now). I don't use ART or TAG and do awesome.

Learn your mech, learn your battlefield role, learn to play as/support your team, learn that all that leads to kills and damage output. I love the Mad dog as is. I don't need quirks to get kills or high damage.

Oh and imo you should never have face time in a LRM boat.

[Joseph Mallan]

Emphasis on the word trying.

try·ing
ˈtrīiNG/
adjective
difficult or annoying; hard to endure.
"it had been a very trying day"

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 03 June 2015 - 04:21 AM.

[Escef]

SamsungNinja, on 03 June 2015 - 01:03 AM, said:

The nova's JJs and chunky arms allow its legs and arms to soak up a lot of damage intended for CT, in addition to your simple math for CT armor. Don't forget structure as well.

Every statistic I posted included structure. If you had any idea what you were talking about you might have noticed.

[YueFei]

Escef, on 03 June 2015 - 03:36 PM, said:

Every statistic I posted included structure. If you had any idea what you were talking about you might have noticed.

I assume you concede on his other points that you failed to address, specifically with regards to the geometry differences between the Nova and Maddog? You snipped out most of his post and didn't respond to those parts.