41 replies to this topic

[Dino Might]

4 UAC-10 and all the ammo you can carry. Don't be alone. Focus heavies and assaults. Lay down massive fire into the CT of anything you see. Not much thinking or tactics involved. Stay close to cover. Once you poke, you're committed. Not much backing up.

[DONTOR]

IraqiWalker, on 09 June 2015 - 02:25 PM, said:

Why do you have 6 armor on your rear ST, but only 4 on the RCT?

Easy becasue the CT has WAY more internal HP so I can take more daamge there even with less armor. The only reason I even have 6 and not 4 armor on the rear side torsos is becasue with JJs I can roll atleast a small amount of damage to my rear portions...

[DONTOR]

Not Bob, on 09 June 2015 - 02:48 PM, said:

Don't stand back and snipe, it doesn't help your team.

What do you consider the dual CERPPC dual Gauss build? I would say it's a sniper and I would also protest that it is EXTREMELY effective.

[Havok Jones]

I would use a Direwolf with an LRM 40 and atleast 1280 ammo so that you can take down some enemies from behind cover before you finally engage your targets. I have a few decent DWF builds but my favourites are my dual gauss/quad ER Med laser/LRM 40 build and my 8xER Large Laser/TC lvl 7 build (this mech is 100 tons of fun in cold maps!). But the best assault mech in my opinion is the Warhawk. I mean what else can carry an LRM 70 with an ER PPC and dual ER medium lasers and have 180 degrees of torso mobility plus run at over 70 km/h. It's a killing machine...

As for strategies with the DWF...don't use Close Quarters Combat or put yourself in a situation where your likely to overheat a lot.
I mean your a big, slow box that can't turn fast and everyone tends to target you first...so your only chance is to use distance to your advantage and outrange, out damage other mechs. The further you are away, the more time you have to dodge bullets, the less damage you will take, and the more control of your heat you will have.
So that being said, Ideally where you want to be with a DWF is behind cover that is away from the front line, close to your team mates, and has a good vantage point so you can walk around cover and pick off enemies that stray from the group or try to gain the upper hand. If your about to overheat, walk back behind cover.

Edited by Havok Jones, 11 June 2015 - 02:10 AM.

[Not Bob]

DONTOR, on 10 June 2015 - 08:18 AM, said:

What do you consider the dual CERPPC dual Gauss build? I would say it's a sniper and I would also protest that it is EXTREMELY effective.

Oh, its a fantastic build, I use it myself all the time, but what I mean when I stay "don't stand back and snipe" is to keep moving with your team. Be a threat, stand in with your team. Not only does being closer help your aim, but it really helps your team against a push, just by being a scary looking dire whale.

That doesn't mean you have to be in the front line all the time. But when you separate yourself from the team in order to snipe a few targets, you're not doing yourself or your team any favors. Stay near the middle of your team if you can, you're protected from pesky lights trying to get behind you, and you're not in the first wave of mechs to assail the enemies.

[Big Tin Man]

My $0.02--Never, ever, lead push in a DWF. Hell, don't be second, or third, or fourth. You're the one that waddles in after they're engaged, and you one shot the first guy you see, and then someone on the other side says "Oh poop, DWF INCOMING" and then the next mech dies. Now you have momentum, and even if you get focused at that point, your pals are slaughtering them.

You're the street sweeper. 300-500m is your preferred fighting distance and you must win every staring contest. My aim sucks and I use advanced zoom as a crutch, even at 500m when using PPC+gauss. Call me a scrub, but it makes the difference between a kill shot and just winging a mech when you're hitting with huge alpha's. You win UAC/LBX fights by shaking their heads so hard they don't know what is happening anymore, but you can't turn away until they are running away. There is no reverse on a DWF either. High power at range is your strength, but you are not fast enough to be a sniper and get in and out of cover. You are doom on the horizon, marching directly toward your enemy.

An uncommon tactic is to use the DWF to leg mechs if you're running laser builds. Odds are one big alpha can leg most mechs in a heartbeat, and they can't cover it by twisting. Then the gimped mech just fodder for your team.

[IraqiWalker]

Big Tin Man, on 10 June 2015 - 12:52 PM, said:

My $0.02--Never, ever, lead push in a DWF. Hell, don't be second, or third, or fourth. You're the one that waddles in after they're engaged, and you one shot the first guy you see, and then someone on the other side says "Oh poop, DWF INCOMING" and then the next mech dies. Now you have momentum, and even if you get focused at that point, your pals are slaughtering them.

You're the street sweeper. 300-500m is your preferred fighting distance and you must win every staring contest. My aim sucks and I use advanced zoom as a crutch, even at 500m when using PPC+gauss. Call me a scrub, but it makes the difference between a kill shot and just winging a mech when you're hitting with huge alpha's. You win UAC/LBX fights by shaking their heads so hard they don't know what is happening anymore, but you can't turn away until they are running away. There is no reverse on a DWF either. High power at range is your strength, but you are not fast enough to be a sniper and get in and out of cover. You are doom on the horizon, marching directly toward your enemy.

An uncommon tactic is to use the DWF to leg mechs if you're running laser builds. Odds are one big alpha can leg most mechs in a heartbeat, and they can't cover it by twisting. Then the gimped mech just fodder for your team.

My build has a 97 point alpha, and you can fire it twice before shutting down. It can leg virtually any mech in the game frighteningly fast. I will say this, a Dakka whale can lead the charge, the problem is going to be the location. If it's the tunnel on Crimson, then you want to be at least the second mech. Most of my long range builds shouldn't see the front line, and stick to being a second line unit, but there are a few builds that are premium front line designs.

[Big Tin Man]

IraqiWalker, on 10 June 2015 - 01:49 PM, said:

My build has a 97 point alpha, and you can fire it twice before shutting down. It can leg virtually any mech in the game frighteningly fast. I will say this, a Dakka whale can lead the charge, the problem is going to be the location. If it's the tunnel on Crimson, then you want to be at least the second mech. Most of my long range builds shouldn't see the front line, and stick to being a second line unit, but there are a few builds that are premium front line designs.

The reason I say never be first is that you are going to get focused even by a moderately competent pug crew, and as you are getting focused, your pugs will see you getting wrecked, abandon you and abandon the push and not take advantage of the moment. Playing with a group though is a different strategy.

[IraqiWalker]

Big Tin Man, on 10 June 2015 - 02:00 PM, said:

The reason I say never be first is that you are going to get focused even by a moderately competent pug crew, and as you are getting focused, your pugs will see you getting wrecked, abandon you and abandon the push and not take advantage of the moment. Playing with a group though is a different strategy.

I agree. It's the "don't be third, or fourth" part that I disagree with. The DWF really should be somewhere in there. Unless you are playing with a group, who can handle the situation and afford to leave you hanging back with all that firepower.

[Big Tin Man]

You're in a DWF. If you aim to be second in a push, you'll end up as 5th and people will be pissed off trying to scramble and get around you.

Completely agree that you need to be in the pack, and that you must COMMIT.

[Sewman]

Quick Update:
Tried employing the tips and builds from this thread and there's definitely improvement!

I tried the 4 x UAC10 build and it definitely kills faster and averages higher damage than the 5 x UAC5 build. I've been trying out the tips in this thread and I managed to actually survive until the end of a few matches, post a 950 dmg loss and a 800+ dmg carry win. The rage quitting <200 damage games are still there, but I'm seeing fewer of them.

The biggest difference was resisting the urge to peak or lunge forward. I tried playing more on the defensive, and hiding around corners with the sledgehammer and waiting. So I've seen some improvement - kill/death ratio is starting to creep up again BUT my win/loss ratio is still atrocious (still the worst of any mech I own). I'm aware that wounding enemy mechs early in matches can greatly affect pug match outcomes, so I'm trying to balance that out by starting to get more shots on Side Torso and Legs earlier in matches.

I attribute my terrible losing streaks partly to match maker (it seems that logging in at odd times in the morning really screws up the match maker's ability to balance teams) and partly to me experimenting with an extremely conservative play style.

I just mastered one variant so I'm hoping that mounting Advance Seismic in the extra module spot will help eliminate those embarrassing backstabbing deaths from locusts.

[IraqiWalker]

Sewman, on 11 June 2015 - 11:52 AM, said:

Quick Update:
Tried employing the tips and builds from this thread and there's definitely improvement!

I tried the 4 x UAC10 build and it definitely kills faster and averages higher damage than the 5 x UAC5 build. I've been trying out the tips in this thread and I managed to actually survive until the end of a few matches, post a 950 dmg loss and a 800+ dmg carry win. The rage quitting <200 damage games are still there, but I'm seeing fewer of them.

The biggest difference was resisting the urge to peak or lunge forward. I tried playing more on the defensive, and hiding around corners with the sledgehammer and waiting. So I've seen some improvement - kill/death ratio is starting to creep up again BUT my win/loss ratio is still atrocious (still the worst of any mech I own). I'm aware that wounding enemy mechs early in matches can greatly affect pug match outcomes, so I'm trying to balance that out by starting to get more shots on Side Torso and Legs earlier in matches.

I attribute my terrible losing streaks partly to match maker (it seems that logging in at odd times in the morning really screws up the match maker's ability to balance teams) and partly to me experimenting with an extremely conservative play style.

I just mastered one variant so I'm hoping that mounting Advance Seismic in the extra module spot will help eliminate those embarrassing backstabbing deaths from locusts.

Our (Locust Pilots) favorite prey is DWFs. One thing about the MM. It's summer now. So you're getting more kids online on MWO than average, and while some are good, some are really bad. This means that depending on your hours, not only is the speed at which a match is found gets impacted, but also, the quality of pilots.

[Tuku]

I have a couple Dire Wolf builds that I like.

Close Brawler
2x Lbx 20
1x Lbx 10
2x SRM6


Daka 10
4x Ultra AC10
Daka 5
6x Ultra AC 5


Long Range Support
2x LRM 15
2x UAC5
4x ERLL

Sniper
2x Gauss
2x ERPPC

Lots of damage quickly ....use lasers when you need to but go for direct fire whenever possible.

[Mordecai McTiernan]

Sewman, on 02 June 2015 - 04:06 AM, said:

-stick mid pack, never ever lead the charge (Leave that to tankier Assaults, Heavies and some Mediums)

You just lost all entitlement to drive an Assault.
There is NOTHING "tankier" than a 100 ton ASSAULT by DEFINITION!
Think about why they are called "Assault" instead of "Overweight" or "Super Heavy".

Then you may think about piloting one again.

Thanks!

Edited by Mordecai McTiernan, 18 June 2015 - 04:14 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Mordecai McTiernan, on 18 June 2015 - 04:13 PM, said:

You just lost all entitlement to drive an Assault.
There is NOTHING "tankier" than a 100 ton ASSAULT by DEFINITION!
Think about why they are called "Assault" instead of "Overweight" or "Super Heavy".

Then you may think about piloting one again.

Thanks!

He's not wrong here, actually.

The DWF is not tanky. Just because a mech has 618 armor, doesn't mean it's tanky. A centurion can tank better than most assault mechs. The Tank role, is to absorb damage. If I were to pick an assault mech as a tanky, lead-the-charge mech, that would be the Atlas, because it can really roll damage, it has arms that can block shots, and soak hits. The DWF can't do that.

It's a second line assault mech, that's what it is. The Kingfisher (Hopefully the assault for clan wave 4) is a better tanker than the DWF. The EXE might also be better, but I haven't tested the new hitboxes yet, however, MASC alone allows it to tank better than a DWF, and it's 5 tons lighter.

The DWF excels at laying down firepower, not receiving it. Of all the times I've died in my DWF, very rarely do I lose the arms before my STs, or CT. That has probably happened 8 times to my DWF-Prime. Look at the layouts, and tell me the armor on those arms isn't wasted, because it doesn't block shots. The atlas on the other hand, makes you go through roughly 400 points of damage, before it dies. THAT is tanking.

The DWF is not a charge leader. It's perfect as the second or third mech to pop up behind the charge leader. While everyone else is trying to kill the Atlas barreling down on them, I'll keep laying down 94 damage alphas, that virtually one-shot most mechs, and sow panic in their ranks. THAT is what a Direwolf is good at: Dealing damage, not taking it.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 18 June 2015 - 04:51 PM.

[InspectorG]

I am a light pilot that went Assault...yeah i took the 'easy route'. /said no one.

Positioning and timing are EVERYTHING

Any 3 enemy mechs can cripple you if they focus you down. (Yes, 3 Locusts could flay you if they are half decent)

You NEED your team.

I learned that in the beginning of learning Assault-Fu, its best to be about in the middle of your team near other fat mechs.
You draw attention so dont be flashy.
You command respect because you can one shot core about anyone if your aim is good.

You are the tide, slow but inevitable. You can drown countless millions, or they can just walk to the shore. Delivery is key.

Ask for help if a light is tormenting you, people will often help, but dont expect it in a Pug.
If your team is pushing, dont be first...definitely dont be last. This is where knowing maps comes in....YES you need to study maps.
And get a feel for the pace of the match. Some are fast. Some are slow. Some are campsites. And then there is NASCAR(your enemy)

I wish i had a clear definition of when and how to move but for me its intuitive.
You have to constantly ask yourself:
"is my team eating too much damage?" Yes, then get up front and fight, No, then wait for the time to pounce

"Is there a better position that i can get the enemy to come to me while i have team support?" Yes, then get there.

"If the enemy is shy/camping, where can i drop a good shot but not get stuck" WIN the trade, dont et an even trade or lose the trade.

"my team wants to push, where should i be in that push?"

"Is there a corner i can turn to make a relevant firing line that will scare the enemy and my team will use?"

"the battle is creeping away from me, how can i cut the map to catch up but not be alone?"

"sh*t is getting real, if i charge, who can i murder before i fall?"

"These 2 lights are eating me up and my team wont help...do i back against a wall to fight them or can i rush another enemy before they get me?"

"which 2-3 mechs on my team are manhandling the enemy/doing the best action and how do i help them?"

"*uck...a rabbit run, how do i best kill someone and stay near help?"

So i dont claim to be a good Whale pilot but i usually get 500+ damage 1+ kills with them.

I do NOT like UAC5 builds because of the face time they require. (4UAC10 may be better...or so i hear)

I DO like asymmetrical builds because i try to twist damage and tend to hug terrain.
The build i like courtesy of Gman129 himself.
Asymmetrical Dual Gauss 2LPL,3ERML....shield with the right, obviously.

[Zordicron]

IraqiWalker, on 18 June 2015 - 04:50 PM, said:

He's not wrong here, actually.

The DWF is not tanky. Just because a mech has 618 armor, doesn't mean it's tanky. A centurion can tank better than most assault mechs. The Tank role, is to absorb damage. If I were to pick an assault mech as a tanky, lead-the-charge mech, that would be the Atlas, because it can really roll damage, it has arms that can block shots, and soak hits. The DWF can't do that.

It's a second line assault mech, that's what it is. The Kingfisher (Hopefully the assault for clan wave 4) is a better tanker than the DWF. The EXE might also be better, but I haven't tested the new hitboxes yet, however, MASC alone allows it to tank better than a DWF, and it's 5 tons lighter.

The DWF excels at laying down firepower, not receiving it. Of all the times I've died in my DWF, very rarely do I lose the arms before my STs, or CT. That has probably happened 8 times to my DWF-Prime. Look at the layouts, and tell me the armor on those arms isn't wasted, because it doesn't block shots. The atlas on the other hand, makes you go through roughly 400 points of damage, before it dies. THAT is tanking.

The DWF is not a charge leader. It's perfect as the second or third mech to pop up behind the charge leader. While everyone else is trying to kill the Atlas barreling down on them, I'll keep laying down 94 damage alphas, that virtually one-shot most mechs, and sow panic in their ranks. THAT is what a Direwolf is good at: Dealing damage, not taking it.

Just a nitpick-
400 damage for an atlas is like 3 or 4 mechs alpha strikeing you now days.

Leading an initial charge in an Atlas is a waste of Atlas. HOWEVER, as the fuzzball unfolds, and enemy get dmged, and the enemy has your location pegged(meaning, no more SRPRZ, ATLAS!) there is this moment when you tell your team "OK" and roll out like Optimus Prime, interception successful, and freeking lay waste to the peasants as you storm out like a terror of old with your beat up team in tow.

Timing THAT charge/lead, that is what is hard to learn, and will make or break the match for your team if it has come to that point. Sometimes, that point is just non existent, and you rteam is rolled or rolling the enemy regardless of what you do(like OP's 900 dmg loss) but it comes up, and "let's go *************" is a master level field awareness skill IMO.

Truly, seeing a brawl oriented Atlas emerge in the heat of a 6-7 type match, mostly untouched after using SRPRZ Atlas to wreck some enemies- seeing it roll out at full throttle missiles flying, AC20 booming, taking shots in the shoulder that make it shrug but just keeps moving and the enemy flees as they are driven from their fireing line.....

That is some epic **** that no clan mech can duplicate, not in dramatic effect like an Atlas. It is a shame so many derps make LRM boats out of them and pilot them like HBKs that you never know if your teams Atlas is trust worthy or not. The odds are not there lol.

[IraqiWalker]

Eldagore, on 18 June 2015 - 08:20 PM, said:

Just a nitpick-
400 damage for an atlas is like 3 or 4 mechs alpha strikeing you now days.

My point here is that the DWF would die to two alphas like that. Instead of 4.

Eldagore, on 18 June 2015 - 08:20 PM, said:

Leading an initial charge in an Atlas is a waste of Atlas. HOWEVER, as the fuzzball unfolds, and enemy get dmged, and the enemy has your location pegged(meaning, no more SRPRZ, ATLAS!) there is this moment when you tell your team "OK" and roll out like Optimus Prime, interception successful, and freeking lay waste to the peasants as you storm out like a terror of old with your beat up team in tow.

Timing THAT charge/lead, that is what is hard to learn, and will make or break the match for your team if it has come to that point. Sometimes, that point is just non existent, and you rteam is rolled or rolling the enemy regardless of what you do(like OP's 900 dmg loss) but it comes up, and "let's go *************" is a master level field awareness skill IMO.

Truly, seeing a brawl oriented Atlas emerge in the heat of a 6-7 type match, mostly untouched after using SRPRZ Atlas to wreck some enemies- seeing it roll out at full throttle missiles flying, AC20 booming, taking shots in the shoulder that make it shrug but just keeps moving and the enemy flees as they are driven from their fireing line.....

That is some epic **** that no clan mech can duplicate, not in dramatic effect like an Atlas. It is a shame so many derps make LRM boats out of them and pilot them like HBKs that you never know if your teams Atlas is trust worthy or not. The odds are not there lol.

I love literally everything about that post. This is exactly how I want people to pilot the Atlas. In a coordinated push, one or two Atlai plus the rest of the team right behind them will make any enemy brown their pants at expeditious speeds. Especially if the enemy team isn't focus firing, and they're just spraying every where.

I have to admit that one of the best features about the Atlas, aside from it's intimidating as all hell appearance, is the shrug animation when it's hit by a heavy caliber round. You really feel ineffective against the coming apocalypse when it's done right.

[Escef]

What a Dire Wolf CAN do:



What can be DONE TO a Dire Wolf:

[InspectorG]

Mordecai McTiernan, on 18 June 2015 - 04:13 PM, said:

You just lost all entitlement to drive an Assault.
There is NOTHING "tankier" than a 100 ton ASSAULT by DEFINITION!
Think about why they are called "Assault" instead of "Overweight" or "Super Heavy".

Then you may think about piloting one again.

Thanks!

Dire has the armor points...

But Dire has not the hitboxes or the twist rate or the shield arms to tank.

Dire's St and CT are easy enough to pick off even as it twists. Even easier if you have elevation. Warhawk is slightly worse but has better twist and travel speed. They both are shaped like a box...broad and wide.

Compare to a Banshee, wide but not deep, arms cover a lot of the mech, and the 2 better Banshees dont have arm weapons.

TL;DR
Shape plays a role in tanking, as does twisting/rate.