252 replies to this topic

[Kristov Kerensky]

PhoenixFire55, you are one funny kid, you know that?

First off, the people you keep calling noobs because they complained about poptarters, Mystere, Bishop, myself, we did NOT complain about poptarters, we ARE poptarters, we had NO ISSUES with the poptarting in MWO, we STILL DO IT, we just had to switch from our Heavys to our Mediums and Lights to do it now. Restricts our damage, which is why poptarting isn't the meta anymore, risk vs reward isn't in the right place to make it profitable for the masses.

Maybe, just maybe, you could find an adult to read the posts to you and explain what they mean before you respond to them. You might not look quite so...bad...if you do that. Not saying it'll make a difference, but it might.

MW2 had a comp scene for years, I helped create and run one of the leagues, NBT, might have heard of it, since it was around through MW4 and after. I understand that it may even be making a comeback. And by the way, MW2 was in Win95 shortly after the release of Win95, and that is when the game started to have a large online playerbase because Win95 made it easy to play online. Grand Council on Kali really got big after that, so did other leagues who'd had rather lackluster numbers when the game was DOS only, really did cut down on who played online.

The numbers I gave you for what percentage plays competitive, those are industry numbers that really haven't changed much in a very long time, top comp players have always been the smallest minority of the playerbase, typically 5%, even LoL and StarCraft fall in that range. This isn't news, it's not something I made up, it's a well established fact.

Same as the reaction of the typical MW player who's played MW2 or 3 or 4 when it comes to poptarting, it's a well known and hated thing due to the exploitive nature of it in those titles. Why do you think Paul and Russ were so quick AND harsh when it came to stopping it? It wasn't like Dragon Bowling, there's no videos out there of those two being poptarted every time they showed up in a drop, they weren't griefed by the Goons via poptarting. They hated it from previous MW titles, it's a rather universal thing. Have you actually EVER played a MW title before online in a league? You sure as hell come across as someone with zero knowledge of this game's history online.

You did get 1 thing right, CB ended shortly before RHoD started their first season in Open Beta, I always confuse them getting setup in CB with their first season in OB, they were quite the talk of the town at the time.

Oh, and my 4 kills for under 200 damage, that's not me kill stealing, again, find an adult to read the post to you. Solo and Kill Most damage on all 4, NO ONE but me shot those targets. I try to get fast kills, I do not try and tear a Mech apart piece by piece, it's stupid because it takes time, time the enemy can use to SHOOT BACK! Headshots are fast, remove the risk of the enemy firing back and damaging you or teammates. They don't pay as well, and the low damage doesn't look as impressive to the morons who think 1k damage and 3 kills is impressive, but that's good by me, space bucks I got plenty of and if you think tons of damage and a few kills are impressive...well...think I covered that. IF I'm using LRMs, high damage low kills are to be expected, that's the only time I am find that acceptable.

Once this game gets an actual planetary combat thing going on, me and the rest of SRM will get serious about comp play, until then, what's the point? Games still in flux, things changing all the time, we get NOTHING for taking or holding a planet, we get nothing for anything we do in the game right now, so it's not worth our time to do anything but have fun, see what PGI has done right or wrong with the latest patch, and that's about it.

But you keep on being a top comp player man, you keep on telling the rest of us we ain't got a clue and don't know anything about this game. People like you are IMPORTANT! We need examples of why the top comp playerbase is to be ignored, great job!

[Mystere]

PhoenixFire55, on 10 June 2015 - 12:27 AM, said:

Oh wise one, enlighten us what it might possibly be ...

It's the Doomsday Machine. Yes, it is real.

Nightshade24, on 10 June 2015 - 01:05 AM, said:

Super aEgis II turret?

With it and a few other static stuff like walls, it created the most deadliest place on earth that's built by man.

Meh!

Edited by Mystere, 10 June 2015 - 08:23 AM.

[Mystere]

Insaneoflex, on 10 June 2015 - 03:50 AM, said:

How about we have something completely rational, like JJ fuel cells that work like ammunition. In fact, jump jets should require a slot for fuel which should deplete as it is used... and not recharge.

What?

[TexAce]

Thunder Child, on 09 June 2015 - 12:25 PM, said:

Hey, since we're asking for old Metas to make a comeback, can I get my 75° Descent, CT seeking, 1.8 + Multiplying Splash Damage, LRMs back? My Catapult misses them, and it was the most skilled play style at the time, because everyone was using it......

Seriously though. I would kill for a Jumpjet Buff, but it should only apply to mechs that max out on their jets. One Jumpjet should make you jiggle like you've had a bad fart. But loading up on your maximum amount should allow you to radically re-position. I don't care if you get screen shake the whole time, or not, or if they have huge cooldowns or not. I just want a Highlander or Summoner that can actually be used to leap over a (small 3-4 floor) building and ambush people. Jumpjets are meant to be for tactical movement, not pogostick bouncing.

If you ask me, I would make JJy really strong, like you said, even better perhaps. But totally disallow shooting while flying. Problem solved.

Edited by TexAss, 10 June 2015 - 08:34 AM.

[Mystere]

TexAss, on 10 June 2015 - 08:34 AM, said:

If you ask me, I would make JJy really strong, like you said, even better perhaps. But totally disallow shooting while flying. Problem solved.

Any scheme that kills jump brawling is dead in the water.

[TexAce]

Mystere, on 10 June 2015 - 09:01 AM, said:

Any scheme that kills jump brawling is dead in the water.

We dont have it now either, we would not lose anything.

[Mystere]

TexAss, on 10 June 2015 - 09:55 AM, said:

We dont have it now either, we would not lose anything.

I don't know about you, but my lights and mediums that can still do. And I in an Arctic Cheetah am going to make a lot of people run to the forums to cry.

[Nightshade24]

PhoenixFire55, on 10 June 2015 - 02:55 AM, said:

Because North Korea (no offense) is exactly that ... 3rd world backwater natives with no means to take down an advanced airplance.



See previous response. The fact that one F-117 was taken down while 99 others won't just proves it even further.



I can take a Spider with an AC10 into a match and end up top damage, simply because everyone will ignore me as I am hardly a primary threat when Dires and Timbers are running around. Success if very relative.



A-bombs as I already said are pretty much artillery in this regard. And I think we already concluded that they can take your turret out easy enough. As for mobile assets, if they move and your turret won't know where they are it'll have nothing to shoot at. To know where they are it'll need other assets to help it. Consider a rather comical example. A single infantryman goes up against your turret with nobody else around. He simply sneaks inside and turns it off, breaks it or even uses it for its own purposes.



We are not talking about stupid or not stupid. We are talking about powerful and effective. The A-bomb is a most effective and powerful way to take our your stationary target.



BattleValue. The BV of such a structure would be by far exceeding the BV of a couple lances of elite clan mechs with elite clan pilots inside. But if you match its BV with a crapton of Urbanmechs on the other side they'll take it down simply because it won't be able to dispatch them all fast enough.



Nothing to do with planes really. You can't take over a country using planes. Germans never really cared about french forts, they simply went around them via Belgium route same way they tryed to do in WWI. Britain wouldn't have fared any better if Germany would have sent all its armies vs the UK instead of messing with the USSR, and even when they didn't I can hardly call losing 2/3 of your airforce, god knows how many people during bombings and god knows how many cargo ships to german submarines in Atlantic doing "quite well".



Exactly. And this is why I made a post about artillery and stationary targets in the first place. Because so many people here screaming poptarts are OP, while they, just like everything else have their weaknesses and counters.



I think any debate provides insight as long as it stays civil so ours wasn't pointless. As for strategic structures .. perhaps, but in our little game of mechs stationary mechs are dispatched rather easily.

I had issues reading your comment due to my mind having malfunctions but let me state this in bold for you...

Dude, North korea is a
SECOND WORLD COUNTRY
,not a Third world country. There's a huge difference. Even if we are not going by original standards of the "three world countries" naming scheme, then North korea (if this scheme was redone for 2015) is the ONLY Second world country.
Not a first, not a third, but a second.

No ifs, no butts. Saying North korea isn't a second world country and is a third world country is me saying Ice isn't H2O because it's hard. It's wood now.

On top of that, even though the North Korean military and defense system may be crude and out dated in many areas, it's still effecient. keep in mind WWII germany took over half of europe using rifles, low caliber cannons, and WWI vehicles. That'll be the same by me winning a jet fight irl now without using a single rocket, missile, or laser and instead only use my 6 machine guns on a F-80 Shooting star against a F-35 or what ever is the latest fighter jet nowadays. Or using a Churchill against an Abrams and winning.

Those panzer I's and II's had so great armour that infantry of the opposing nation could penetrate and kill it with machine guns (not even going to say how a sniper rifle would pen the additional armour versions)

I am over thinking your first paragraph a bit, acting like a calculator on a journey to calculate 0 by the power of 69 divide a by 8008!e5.
The calculator just burns up into a "Math Error" / "Dimension error" / "Syntax error".





yes, but it was only under 20 that operated in that war and only 7 at the time flying over serbias sky at the time... well, at the end of that time I guess it would be 6, as ones shot down.






This relates how?







It isn't the most effective really, especially when you blow up everyone on your side in the process. As well as contaminate the area the bomb is dropped to the point it would cost billions to remove the radioactivity and another billion to rebuild your own cities... however how can you do this if you are already dead?
Nuclear and Atomic weapons are far from effective. Not on the costs, the lives, etc.
If you play fallout, you will learn this quickly if you ever get the Mini Nuke launcher. It's to noneffective and costly to use and kinda blocks your way to get to X position after firing due to radiation.... oh yea and let's mention the fact you're indoors and you will be screwed by your own mini nuke.
If this weapon is so effective I wounder why everyone doesn't use it?... oh wait.







Yep... BV is now in the discussion. The funniest thing I find now is not the fact that we're mentioning BV in a MW game, but the fact is we're applying it to reality.
Which I will simply say: you could have 1 million tons worth of Earthquake bombs for the BV of 1 Nuclear bomb, which with this many earthquake bombs you can level the whole world x10 without destroying your own country. See? better!
.... or you can have over 20 million aEgis turrets (if we want to be turret-racest and only want 1) which would be enough to take out any amount of bombs dropped in the area as well as annihilate the whole country as the turrets could over heat and force most of the country to melt as heat exceeds a few hundred degrees Celsius...
BV is fun when it's applied to situations that doesn't use it in reality. Also thinking reality is balanced...






"Nothing to do with planes really. You can't take over a country using planes. Germans never really cared about french forts, they simply went around them via Belgium route same way they tryed to do in WWI. Britain wouldn't have fared any better if Germany would have sent all its armies vs the UK instead of messing with the USSR, and even when they didn't I can hardly call losing 2/3 of your airforce, god knows how many people during bombings and god knows how many cargo ships to german submarines in Atlantic doing "quite well"."

That's not what the german reports and documentation of WWII say, WHICH there aircraft took out a narrow passage of the fort line of defense and thus allowed there fast panzer II's to role in with no resistance.

On top of that the British forts are not accessible by the land and Germany hasn't made any submersible, or amphibious vehicles to take out the naval forts. Oh and germany already tried attacking those forts multiple times.

in a single battle they lost 2 ships and 10 planes to it in 1941 or 1942 I believe. which is relatively quite good as Britain didn't loose a single fort in that assault and the same forts went on to take around about 20 V1 rockets later on in the war.






last point: well I was never defending static mechs .-. that's a different ballgame. Turrets in BT just lack the gyro and engine mechs use and thus have more tonnage devoted to firepower. A 30 ton turret will have more firepower then a 50 ton mech staying stationary. I just simply commented on things built to be stationary or at least in combat (ie towed artillery guns, even though they 'can' move, they are stationary in combat as they can't move and fire)


I do not really support stationary mechs in MW: O to much. However I do wish some mechs have a quirk to cool down faster when standing as some mechs are kinda the "sit and fire for awhile" kinda mechs or the "turn a corner, fire a lot and when you reach max heat you back out to cool off", I got the idea from playing the adder on ideas how to make it very good but not OP or not a mimic of the IS ER PPC mechs and I remember in MW: O if you are standing you cool down faster then if you're moving...

But even then I do not think standing to often is a good idea. the main advantage a battlemech has over a tank is the mobility.

However I fear if PGI will add such a quick they will give a "50% increase heat handeling on awesome [insert variant that isn't that oftenly played here]"...

[PhoenixFire55]

Gyrok, on 10 June 2015 - 05:14 AM, said:

The problem was that in the jump snipe hey day...brawlers were not a proper counter...the jump snipers could do roughly equal DPS to a brawl deck because SRM hitreg was scheiss.

Was? Still is ... Laser hit reg and SRM hit reg were practically non-existant back there. Only things that did more or less register were ballistics and ballistic-like PPC, thus the meta. But a simple 50t SRM Centurion in good hands with decent SRM hit reg were usually able to easily kill my 90t HGL if he managed to sneak up. DPS were never close to equal, it was about the first two shots a PPC-Gauss mech could make, if he could place them well, it was often enough to kill an enemy mech.

That meta was (and still is) dictated by two things ... the hit reg issues and the fact that people in PUGs are never willing to be aggressive and attack, because somebody needs to go first and tank the damage, and nobody has the guts to do it. So, if you aren't going to charge the enemy there is no point in taking a close range mech, thats why PUGs are dominated by long range / medium range builds. It is apparent in usual game modes, it is plain obvious in CW game modes where there are choke points nobody ever charges through (apart from a few bigger premades).

[PhoenixFire55]

Melon Lord, on 10 June 2015 - 06:51 AM, said:

As someone who wasn't here for the jump sniping era, but has seen videos of it, I can honestly say the day it comes back will be the day I uninstall. It looks like such an un-interactive way to play, on both sides really. Jump sniping can be done now with lights and some mediums and that's fine, they have limited weapons and their maneuverability should allow them to jump snipe. Assaults with 5 times the firepower doing it do your team is dead before you have a chance to engage them. Nah, count me out.

You do realize that a non-poptarting brawler Atlas has about twice the firepower of any poptarting mech? Right? Not even to mention a non-poptarting DireWolf that has triple the alpha strike damage.

[PhoenixFire55]

Kristov Kerensky, on 10 June 2015 - 07:34 AM, said:

First off, the people you keep calling noobs because they complained about poptarters, Mystere, Bishop, myself, we did NOT complain about poptarters, we ARE poptarters, we had NO ISSUES with the poptarting in MWO, we STILL DO IT, we just had to switch from our Heavys to our Mediums and Lights to do it now. Restricts our damage, which is why poptarting isn't the meta anymore, risk vs reward isn't in the right place to make it profitable for the masses.

Maybe, just maybe, you could find an adult to read the posts to you and explain what they mean before you respond to them. You might not look quite so...bad...if you do that. Not saying it'll make a difference, but it might.

MW2 had a comp scene for years, I helped create and run one of the leagues, NBT, might have heard of it, since it was around through MW4 and after. I understand that it may even be making a comeback. And by the way, MW2 was in Win95 shortly after the release of Win95, and that is when the game started to have a large online playerbase because Win95 made it easy to play online. Grand Council on Kali really got big after that, so did other leagues who'd had rather lackluster numbers when the game was DOS only, really did cut down on who played online.

The numbers I gave you for what percentage plays competitive, those are industry numbers that really haven't changed much in a very long time, top comp players have always been the smallest minority of the playerbase, typically 5%, even LoL and StarCraft fall in that range. This isn't news, it's not something I made up, it's a well established fact.

Same as the reaction of the typical MW player who's played MW2 or 3 or 4 when it comes to poptarting, it's a well known and hated thing due to the exploitive nature of it in those titles. Why do you think Paul and Russ were so quick AND harsh when it came to stopping it? It wasn't like Dragon Bowling, there's no videos out there of those two being poptarted every time they showed up in a drop, they weren't griefed by the Goons via poptarting. They hated it from previous MW titles, it's a rather universal thing. Have you actually EVER played a MW title before online in a league? You sure as hell come across as someone with zero knowledge of this game's history online.

You did get 1 thing right, CB ended shortly before RHoD started their first season in Open Beta, I always confuse them getting setup in CB with their first season in OB, they were quite the talk of the town at the time.

Oh, and my 4 kills for under 200 damage, that's not me kill stealing, again, find an adult to read the post to you. Solo and Kill Most damage on all 4, NO ONE but me shot those targets. I try to get fast kills, I do not try and tear a Mech apart piece by piece, it's stupid because it takes time, time the enemy can use to SHOOT BACK! Headshots are fast, remove the risk of the enemy firing back and damaging you or teammates. They don't pay as well, and the low damage doesn't look as impressive to the morons who think 1k damage and 3 kills is impressive, but that's good by me, space bucks I got plenty of and if you think tons of damage and a few kills are impressive...well...think I covered that. IF I'm using LRMs, high damage low kills are to be expected, that's the only time I am find that acceptable.

Once this game gets an actual planetary combat thing going on, me and the rest of SRM will get serious about comp play, until then, what's the point? Games still in flux, things changing all the time, we get NOTHING for taking or holding a planet, we get nothing for anything we do in the game right now, so it's not worth our time to do anything but have fun, see what PGI has done right or wrong with the latest patch, and that's about it.

But you keep on being a top comp player man, you keep on telling the rest of us we ain't got a clue and don't know anything about this game. People like you are IMPORTANT! We need examples of why the top comp playerbase is to be ignored, great job!

I think I told you to get your lieing mouth out of here. Nobody wants to hear any of your steering wheel underhive stories where you solo kill 4 trial mechs with 200 damage. Until you bring us the video where you so expertly poptart in a Highlander dispatching lances of clan mechs with ease I suggest you get the FK out.

[Satan n stuff]

Mystere, on 09 June 2015 - 10:21 AM, said:

Here's a challenge for everyone. Run this and post your scores.

236ms, I might have done better but I responded a bit slow to the first one. I'll probably try again when I'm properly caffeinated.