26 replies to this topic

[TimePeriod]

Take the Quickdraw for an example. Its HUGE.
Its wider then then the Dire Wolf.
It takes REAR-CT damage from frontal shots.
4 laser hardpoints, 2 missile hardpoints. One hardpoint capped at 4 (WTF!?) tubes.

I could rave on and on about pilot error, incorrect loudout and so on but I won't, why?

Because there is 25 other 'Mechs which will do the Quickdraws job BETTER, without having to get Mastery, without having to get DHS, with less pilot skill and so on.

Please explain to me (for my brain has failed me) why has PGI allowed this kind of obscure nonsense to continue?!

[FupDup]

The same reason that they gave the Spider 5V 2 energy hardpoints in its CT, and nowhere else, while not giving the mech anywhere near the quirk level seen on other low-tier mechs?

[TimePeriod]

I seriously regret buying the Quickdraw, its such a godamn train-whreck of quirk-hazzards everywhere.
Ugh, I think I may get sick.

[Night Thastus]

While both the Spider-5V and the Quickdraw could use some work, people ***** about them way too much.

I regularly get 600+ damage matches in both.

The quickdraw was meant to be super manuverable and fast. Play it as such. Give it the biggest XL you can find and 7 JJ's. Play the role of a skirmisher. Quirkly shoot off some SRM-4's and mediums (with that dayum short burn time IS loves) and run the **** away before the team even realizes. It has excellent arm-sheilding and torso twist, especially with larger engines, making it super XL friendly.

Same with the spider 5V. Just had a 3-kill 600 damage match not long ago in it. Just use 2x Med pulse. The burn time and reload are so hella fast it's absurd with those 30% quirks.

In my opinion, the quirks on the quickdraw are EXACTLY what all IS mechs should have. Small buffs to an underperforming chassy to give it a chance to be competitive. Not absurd 50% quirks like on some mechs.

However, the quickdraw does need to be resized. It's too damn big for it's class, and it uses an archetype a bit too large for it's role.

If that's the case though, we'd have to revaluate the size of almost every mech in this game. Plenty of threads have pointed out the absurd sizing PGI has used. Needs to be fixed.

Edited by Night Thastus, 08 June 2015 - 09:57 AM.

[TimePeriod]

Night Thastus, on 08 June 2015 - 09:55 AM, said:

While both the Spider-5V and the Quickdraw could use some work, people ***** about them way too much.

I regularly get 600+ damage matches in both.

The quickdraw was meant to be super manuverable and fast. Play it as such. Give it the biggest XL you can find and 7 JJ's. Play the role of a skirmisher. Quirkly shoot off some SRM-4's and mediums (with that dayum short burn time IS loves) and run the **** away before the team even realizes. It has excellent arm-sheilding and torso twist, especially with larger engines, making it super XL friendly.

4 Medium lasers and 2 SRM 4's SHOULD NOT cause a HEAVY mech to reach 50% heat.
Period.

[Joseph Mallan]

TimePeriod, on 08 June 2015 - 10:08 AM, said:

4 Medium lasers and 2 SRM 4's SHOULD NOT cause a HEAVY mech to reach 50% heat.
Period.

As it was built yes it should. With only 13 sinks It can and will get over 50%. Now how fast it does it in this game with say... 16 Doubles That is double the heat generated by the weapons. But with 3 timed the average fire rate Freezers cannot keep up the way they are supposed to.

[cSand]

lol

learn to Quickdraw

Edited by cSand, 08 June 2015 - 10:22 AM.

[Moldur]

Some mechs are better than others, period. For some reason people can't accept this and PGI partially obliges them by ruining the game with rampant quirks when in reality, some mechs should just suck and some should be better. Counter Strike would not have been a good game if the developers' definition of balance meant slowly tweaking the game until none of the weapon differences mattered and everyone could primary the Glock just as well as the AK or M4. Some mechs kind of suck, yet some people get mad when they can't win the game by using 'a pistol' just because it's their favorite weapon.

A better analogy is maybe a fighting game with a bunch of different characters. Take Super Street Fighter II. You could play as Ryu because he's the best, but maybe you want the challenge of a worse character, or maybe you think Ryu is just a boring dude. You pick Blanca or something. You could have picked Ryu if you just wanted to win all the time and be "cheap," boring, etc., but you picked Blanca because you like him. You can play Blanca and win pretty frequently just fine, but don't get angry when Blanca isn't top tier because, remember, you could have picked Ryu.

That all said, the scaling in this game does suck, but Night Thastus' point still stands. He can do well in what others might consider a "****" mech. You can learn to play it just like you can learn to play a low tier fighting game character. If you don't want to go through all that, then get a better mech. As OP stated, there are 25 other mechs that do its job better.

[Almond Brown]

All Mechs, based on direct tonnage, should be identical in all ways. That will cut down on the whines. Until every Mech that weighs the same as every Mech of the same weight are made equal, there will be whines.

My Awesome(s) weeps in the 80t "Assault" category so get in line... ;(

[627]

TimePeriod, on 08 June 2015 - 09:50 AM, said:

I seriously regret buying the Quickdraw, its such a godamn train-whreck of quirk-hazzards everywhere.
Ugh, I think I may get sick.

This is the first step you need to take. After that comes the hate.

I learned this back when this mech arrived. A substitute. It should have been the Orion but PGI gave us this mech. I bought it out of pure frustration, that I had to wait another 6 month or so for the Orion.

And then I played this oversized pile of junk. The Quicklegged. Even without Jumpjets behind cover you get legged. Damn mech.

And after realizing this, that I hate these mechs, I learned to get used to them. Share the hate, use it, show everyone what a bad mech that is. Show them!
When the IV4 came out, I instantly bought it, just to get another mech too hate. Everytime I'm in a bad mood I use a quickdraw, that really helps.
Be your own enemy in this mech and defeat yourself. Then the rest of the enemy can't hurt you anymore.

[Nightmare1]

I liked and ran Quickdraws back before it was quirking cool.

Still do even now that it's quirking un-cool.

Edited by Nightmare1, 08 June 2015 - 10:50 AM.

[TimePeriod]

Almond Brown, on 08 June 2015 - 10:46 AM, said:

All Mechs, based on direct tonnage, should be identical in all ways. That will cut down on the whines. Until every Mech that weighs the same as every Mech of the same weight are made equal, there will be whines.

My Awesome(s) weeps in the 80t "Assault" category so get in line... ;(

My Stupidraw is the size of your Awesome.
My Stupidraw is 20 tons lighter.
My Stupidraw has far less weapons.
My Stupidraw takes damage lopsided.
My Stupidraw has less armour.

Get in line.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Plenty of people do just fine with a Quickdraw, it's designed for a specific role, stop trying to make it do a roll its not good at, see how quickly the problem goes away!

And you are sort of correct on the scale, it is a bit off. Then again, very few of the Mechs are the proper scale, Commandos are 11m tall, Atlas 15m, Direwolf 14m, Locust 12m...see where that's going?

Mechs are actually all around the same height, tonnage isn't based on height, but people THINK that way so PGI made Lights little and Assaults huge because people are stupid.

[Astrocanis]

Night Thastus, on 08 June 2015 - 09:55 AM, said:

While both the Spider-5V and the Quickdraw could use some work, people ***** about them way too much.

I regularly get 600+ damage matches in both.

The quickdraw was meant to be super manuverable and fast. Play it as such. Give it the biggest XL you can find and 7 JJ's. Play the role of a skirmisher. Quirkly shoot off some SRM-4's and mediums (with that dayum short burn time IS loves) and run the **** away before the team even realizes. It has excellent arm-sheilding and torso twist, especially with larger engines, making it super XL friendly.

Same with the spider 5V. Just had a 3-kill 600 damage match not long ago in it. Just use 2x Med pulse. The burn time and reload are so hella fast it's absurd with those 30% quirks.

In my opinion, the quirks on the quickdraw are EXACTLY what all IS mechs should have. Small buffs to an underperforming chassy to give it a chance to be competitive. Not absurd 50% quirks like on some mechs.

However, the quickdraw does need to be resized. It's too damn big for it's class, and it uses an archetype a bit too large for it's role.

If that's the case though, we'd have to revaluate the size of almost every mech in this game. Plenty of threads have pointed out the absurd sizing PGI has used. Needs to be fixed.

In other words, "Kill secured."

[cSand]

TimePeriod, on 08 June 2015 - 10:50 AM, said:

My Stupidraw is the size of your Awesome.
My Stupidraw is 20 tons lighter.
My Stupidraw has far less weapons.
My Stupidraw takes damage lopsided.
My Stupidraw has less armour.

Get in line.

Hey there's no shortage of Stormcrows for you guys who need a little, uh, help, performing




- buys new chassis (arguably one of the more difficult ones to master)
- is not instantly successful
- complains that chassis is bad

Edited by cSand, 08 June 2015 - 11:08 AM.

[Navid A1]

[cSand]

Lol I remember that

To be fair though they got rid of that LRM 10 quirk






thank god

[Triban]

Kristov Kerensky, on 08 June 2015 - 10:52 AM, said:

Plenty of people do just fine with a Quickdraw, it's designed for a specific role, stop trying to make it do a roll its not good at, see how quickly the problem goes away!

And you are sort of correct on the scale, it is a bit off. Then again, very few of the Mechs are the proper scale, Commandos are 11m tall, Atlas 15m, Direwolf 14m, Locust 12m...see where that's going?

Mechs are actually all around the same height, tonnage isn't based on height, but people THINK that way so PGI made Lights little and Assaults huge because people are stupid.

Sorry I don't usually do this, but you are completely wrong.

Official from Sarna: BattleMechs range in height from 7 to 17 meters.

Mechs (height)
Light => Commando (25 ton) = 9m
Medium => Enforcer (50 ton) = 12m
Heavy => Grashopper (70 ton) = 14m
Assault => Banshee (95 ton) = 15.2m

Edited by Triban, 08 June 2015 - 11:30 AM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Triban, on 08 June 2015 - 11:28 AM, said:

Sorry I don't usually do this, but you are completely wrong.

Official from Sarna: BattleMechs range in height from 7 to 17 meters.

Mechs (height)
Light => Commando (25 ton) = 9m
Medium => Enforcer (50 ton) = 12m
Heavy => Grashopper (70 ton) = 14m
Assault => Banshee (95 ton) = 15.2m

That height isn't actually given on that chart, in case you missed that, it's a conclusion drawn from how tall the human figure is and using that as a basis, 1.8m for the human. Various sources give different heights for the Commando, along with most other Mechs, such as this list compiled from various novels :

Yu Huang = 13m Threads of ambition
Vixen under 13m Threads of ambition?
Jupiter = 13m A Call to arms
Victor = 14m lethal heritage
Hatcheman = 11m lethal heritage
Centurion 10+ meter
Firestarter = 12m Heir to the dragon
Gallowglas = 10 meter highlander gambit
Marauder =12m Thunder rift
Victor =10m? Sword and dagger
Mercenarys star; Shadow hawk =10m?
Warhammer =10m Shrapnel
Atlas =13m Shrapnel
Vindicator =9m tall (87mm LRMs -wolves on border)
Phoenix Hawk =11m lethal heritage (50 cal MG)
Goliath =nearly 12m Warrior ripost
Locust =10m Warrior coupa
Crusader =10m Assumption of risk

Notice that the Victor is listed twice with a different height each time? REAL common, there's been different measurements given by FASA and by various authors, all of who's worked was vetted by FASA before it was published, so outside of 12m average height, 2 levels, we just kind of have no real clue.

FASA has stated, many times, that all Mechs are 2 levels high, that's 12m, they did NOT state that Lights are 1 level high, Mediums are 1.25 levels, Heavys are 1.75 levels and Assaults are 2 levels, they said they are all 2 levels high. Commandos aren't supposed to be half the height of an Atlas, nor are Firestarters, which as you can see, has a listed height of 12m according to one canon source. MWO heights put the Atlas around 19m tall, which is a huge jump from the 14 to 15m it's usually given as in most canon sources, the source on this list gives 13m, which is hell of a lot shorter than the 19m MWO has it set at.

Scale is wrong in MWO, that's a fact, but that's because most Mechs ARE APPROXIMATELY THE SAME HEIGHT! Lights aren't half the height of Assaults. Height does NOT equal mass, people need to get that through their heads and realize PGI mucked the scale of Mechs all to hell and back.

Here's an older chart of Clan Mechs : http://s56.photobuck...8b6e24.jpg.html

There's blueprints of the Timby, Hellbringer and Summoner, as well as BattleMaster, Warhammer and others, all with a scale setting, and guess what, they won't agree with the above listed heights either, and they are all official FASA products. But they do all agree that the scale in MWO is off, because they don't put Lights at half the height of Assaults. Hell, look at the Clan chart, the Nova is SHORTER than the Adder, and that's definitely now how they are in MWO.

The Quickdraw is a Heavy, which only means it masses between two set amounts, NOT that it's X or Y meters tall, the Class is a function of mass, nothing else. Bradley APC is a bit taller than an M1A2 Abrams, almost as wide, but it masses a LOT less than that M1A2. Please keep in mind that size doesn't equal mass.

[Xetelian]

TimePeriod, on 08 June 2015 - 10:50 AM, said:

My Stupidraw is the size of your Awesome.
My Stupidraw is 20 tons lighter.
My Stupidraw has far less weapons.
My Stupidraw takes damage lopsided.
My Stupidraw has less armour.

Get in line.

My AWSdumb is also as wide as a direwolf
My AWSdumb has less hardpoints 6 total on the Pretty Baby 5 on the 9M
My AWSdumb weighs 20 tons more but only 90 more armor spread out ~12 points a part
MY AWSdumb has arm mounted missiles that have 2 slots or sometimes 4.

QKDs are bad, very very bad. Their hero is terrible but I must also mention the AWS hero is terrible too.


They both need amazing quirks, but they keep skipping by my favorites for these clan mechs.