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World Of Warships Vs Mwo


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#101 Jon Gotham

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 09:56 AM

View PostGayang3, on 08 June 2015 - 12:39 PM, said:


5)match making works much better. Since the matchmaker works based on the class of the ship, you get a much "fair" game. So if you have progressed out to level 7 but want to have fun in a fast, light armored early age cruiser, you can hop in one and have a blast. Unlike in MWO where elo is a big deal I found this to be better. In MWO if you have high elo and you go in with a fun build, your team will probably loose and it will not be fun for anyone :(

6)matchmaking is fast. The server had about 3000 players, but I never waited more than 5mts for a game and 90% of the time I am in a game in 1-2 mts. The one time it went to 5mts, they put me in a 1vs1 deathmatch with another similar sized ship in a smaller map. That was fun.



If the MM works in a similiar fashion to WOT-NO THANKS. It failed miserably to match equal skill players up I regularly has me at cyan (about 1600 or so WN8) with one or two yellows (around 900 WN8) with at least 10 deep, dark red players with sub WN8. all that lead to was you having to play like 5 people combined to even stand a chance of a win.
So frustrating I quit WoT.
Fast MM isn't always good MM. See above point. Also 5 minutes is way too long for some of the whiners here. The MM was WOT's single biggest failing.......I can't see any WG title improving on that sadly. But I'd love for you to prove me wrong and that WG have grown up and stopped punishing certain groups of players.

#102 Elizander

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 09:57 AM

Thanks for the update and all, but boats aren't mechs. :(

#103 Hit the Deck

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 10:22 AM

View PostElizander, on 16 June 2015 - 09:57 AM, said:

Thanks for the update and all, but boats aren't mechs. :(

They aren't but some carry guns, each heavier than an Atlas! B)

Seriously though, I'm not a war buff but this game is pretty good so far. When people say that they want a thinking man's shooter then they should definitely play this game. And what's more important, you will get ping in the tens:

Posted Image

Just play in CBT Asia. The server is in Singapore I believe.

#104 Gayang3

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 05:23 PM

View PostElizander, on 16 June 2015 - 09:57 AM, said:

Thanks for the update and all, but boats aren't mechs. :(


they are made of steel, have guns.. thats like a 200% similarity :)

No seriously though, give it a try. If the comments before me are any indication they are going to come in to Open Beta in a matter of days.

#105 IraqiWalker

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 05:28 PM

View PostGayang3, on 16 June 2015 - 05:23 PM, said:

200% similarity :)

I think your math has a slight overcompensation issue
XD

#106 Hit the Deck

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 07:01 PM

So... when it's best to use AP rounds? I read that if you want to aim for the enemy ship's citadel?

#107 Gayang3

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 07:13 PM

View PostHit the Deck, on 16 June 2015 - 07:01 PM, said:

So... when it's best to use AP rounds? I read that if you want to aim for the enemy ship's citadel?


Yes. The theory is, on BBs you use AP all the time. On Cruisers and DDs you use HE mostly but can use AP if you are going against a smaller opponent.

Aim for teh citadel. But where it is exactly (its generally at the waterline under the main turrets) no one really knows

#108 Anjian

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 07:58 PM

View Postkamiko kross, on 16 June 2015 - 09:56 AM, said:


If the MM works in a similiar fashion to WOT-NO THANKS. It failed miserably to match equal skill players up I regularly has me at cyan (about 1600 or so WN8) with one or two yellows (around 900 WN8) with at least 10 deep, dark red players with sub WN8. all that lead to was you having to play like 5 people combined to even stand a chance of a win.
So frustrating I quit WoT.
Fast MM isn't always good MM. See above point. Also 5 minutes is way too long for some of the whiners here. The MM was WOT's single biggest failing.......I can't see any WG title improving on that sadly. But I'd love for you to prove me wrong and that WG have grown up and stopped punishing certain groups of players.



Strangely enough, the tier difference is not as feelable as it is in WoT. Even with tiers 3 or 4 layers deep. Tier IV battleship can penetrate your Tier XIII cruiser, and a Tier IV cruiser can still leave the superstructure of a Tier VII battleship in ruins. Plus a torpedo is a torpedo no matter where it comes from.

The difference in tiers isn't really that meaningful since armor doesn't escalate on tiers as WoT does, and in some cases, some lower tiers have better firepower than higher tiers.

If one side has more lower tiers, sometimes that side will outnumber the other side.

This game doesn't give you a "tier invulnerability". A Tier V Japanese destroyer can still sink your Tier VIII US battleship really good.

View PostHit the Deck, on 16 June 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:

They aren't but some carry guns, each heavier than an Atlas! B)

Seriously though, I'm not a war buff but this game is pretty good so far. When people say that they want a thinking man's shooter then they should definitely play this game. And what's more important, you will get ping in the tens:

Posted Image

Just play in CBT Asia. The server is in Singapore I believe.



That is pretty awesome result, considering the ship you are using.

Edited by Anjian, 16 June 2015 - 08:06 PM.


#109 Anjian

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 08:05 PM

View PostHit the Deck, on 16 June 2015 - 09:38 AM, said:

No more torpedo death now! And my Aoba kicks enemies' fat metal stern (@ss)!

Posted Image

Four enemy kills... yeah baby! And few days ago I had to be lucky to get even one kill....



Well if you were using the Furusato then, that ship is a bit of a stinker with its slow revolving turrets. The Aoba is a much better ship, despite similar firepower to the Furutaka. Plus the Aoba is accurate. Getting 4 kills is a great feat for it though, because the Aoba still isn't considered a very strong vessel, somewhat in the just okay range. I did only 2 at best with it. The best I did was around 5 kills, with over 247 hits, but that was using the Cleveland class which throws a rain of 6" shells on the enemy. The US cruisers are easier if you are a gunner type.

Wait till you get to the Myoko from the Aoba. The Myoko is magnificent. 10 8" guns makes a big difference from 6. Further that, I can't wait to get to the Mogami with its 15 6" guns (initial configuration). And I am really hoping the game would reintroduce the Takao class.

Edited by Anjian, 16 June 2015 - 08:07 PM.


#110 Hit the Deck

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Posted 16 June 2015 - 10:31 PM

View PostAnjian, on 16 June 2015 - 08:05 PM, said:


Well if you were using the Furusato then, that ship is a bit of a stinker with its slow revolving turrets. The Aoba is a much better ship, despite similar firepower to the Furutaka. Plus the Aoba is accurate. Getting 4 kills is a great feat for it though, because the Aoba still isn't considered a very strong vessel, somewhat in the just okay range. I did only 2 at best with it. The best I did was around 5 kills, with over 247 hits, but that was using the Cleveland class which throws a rain of 6" shells on the enemy. The US cruisers are easier if you are a gunner type.

Wait till you get to the Myoko from the Aoba. The Myoko is magnificent. 10 8" guns makes a big difference from 6. Further that, I can't wait to get to the Mogami with its 15 6" guns (initial configuration). And I am really hoping the game would reintroduce the Takao class.

Yeah Furutaka's turrets were a pain in the bütt to turn! And I'm indeed looking forward to next tier IJN ships because Aoba's torpedoes are a bit weird that they can only fire to the ship's rear end. Maybe they designed them for defensive purpose in mind. But so far I'm satisfied with her!

#111 Serpentbane

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 12:10 PM

View PostGayang3, on 08 June 2015 - 12:52 PM, said:


well not really. At least the way it worked when I played it, they group similar class ships when matchmaking. So when I go in my level 6, only 5/6/7 levels were there (and similar when I went in my level 2s and 3s).

I played WoT with my friends, not fun at all as they were like 4/5 classes above me and I had to play against players at their level. My tank did not even damage enemy tanks. Yei, it really made me want to play more. Not.

The MWO way is 100% better.

And regarding point 5 it’s not comparable. Ref. my what I wrote above, there is no classes like in WoWhatever and deploying what ever mech you should be able to contribute to the teams success. Now, you could do an all Flamer AWS-8Q and have fun. Yes, you will perform bad (probably), and your team might get upset. But this has nothing to do with classes and early age stuff. It’s simply a bad build, and every single mech in MWO can be built in a bad way.

The timbers also come in free variants, and like all mechs, they were nerfed when they proved to powerful. How can you complain about this while you say how a great thin it is when they need to adjust the ships in WoWS to?

Machmaking fast? 5min? I never wait 5 mins for a drop, it usually takes less than 1, unless I play CW that is.

Never spend more than 1-2 minutes to get to the action? In MWO it takes like 15 sec on some maps. Not that this is a good thing. I’d rather have larger maps and spend 10 minutes or more getting recon from scouts, positioning units and playing out tactics with sensors, diversions and maneuvers.

In MWO the Dire Wolf is not automatically the best unit because it’s larger than the Commando. Granted PGI should have played out the role based gameplay a lot more, they are two mechs with different play styles, different objectives, and so on. Why should I start playing MWO and only play against other lights, and then level up and play against only Assaults? Why is this a good idea? Its plain dumb.

And no, I don’t want all kind of sounds and badges popping up on my screen.

#112 Gayang3

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 01:39 PM

View PostSerpentbane, on 17 June 2015 - 12:10 PM, said:

I played WoT with my friends, not fun at all as they were like 4/5 classes above me and I had to play against players at their level. My tank did not even damage enemy tanks. Yei, it really made me want to play more. Not.

The MWO way is 100% better.

And regarding point 5 it’s not comparable. Ref. my what I wrote above, there is no classes like in WoWhatever and deploying what ever mech you should be able to contribute to the teams success. Now, you could do an all Flamer AWS-8Q and have fun. Yes, you will perform bad (probably), and your team might get upset. But this has nothing to do with classes and early age stuff. It’s simply a bad build, and every single mech in MWO can be built in a bad way.

The timbers also come in free variants, and like all mechs, they were nerfed when they proved to powerful. How can you complain about this while you say how a great thin it is when they need to adjust the ships in WoWS to?

Machmaking fast? 5min? I never wait 5 mins for a drop, it usually takes less than 1, unless I play CW that is.

Never spend more than 1-2 minutes to get to the action? In MWO it takes like 15 sec on some maps. Not that this is a good thing. I’d rather have larger maps and spend 10 minutes or more getting recon from scouts, positioning units and playing out tactics with sensors, diversions and maneuvers.

In MWO the Dire Wolf is not automatically the best unit because it’s larger than the Commando. Granted PGI should have played out the role based gameplay a lot more, they are two mechs with different play styles, different objectives, and so on. Why should I start playing MWO and only play against other lights, and then level up and play against only Assaults? Why is this a good idea? Its plain dumb.

And no, I don’t want all kind of sounds and badges popping up on my screen.


MWO is certainly your cup of tea and you shouldn't probably try anything else.

#113 Anjian

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 10:25 PM

View PostSerpentbane, on 17 June 2015 - 12:10 PM, said:

I played WoT with my friends, not fun at all as they were like 4/5 classes above me and I had to play against players at their level. My tank did not even damage enemy tanks. Yei, it really made me want to play more. Not.

The MWO way is 100% better.

And regarding point 5 it’s not comparable. Ref. my what I wrote above, there is no classes like in WoWhatever and deploying what ever mech you should be able to contribute to the teams success. Now, you could do an all Flamer AWS-8Q and have fun. Yes, you will perform bad (probably), and your team might get upset. But this has nothing to do with classes and early age stuff. It’s simply a bad build, and every single mech in MWO can be built in a bad way.

The timbers also come in free variants, and like all mechs, they were nerfed when they proved to powerful. How can you complain about this while you say how a great thin it is when they need to adjust the ships in WoWS to?

Machmaking fast? 5min? I never wait 5 mins for a drop, it usually takes less than 1, unless I play CW that is.

Never spend more than 1-2 minutes to get to the action? In MWO it takes like 15 sec on some maps. Not that this is a good thing. I’d rather have larger maps and spend 10 minutes or more getting recon from scouts, positioning units and playing out tactics with sensors, diversions and maneuvers.

In MWO the Dire Wolf is not automatically the best unit because it’s larger than the Commando. Granted PGI should have played out the role based gameplay a lot more, they are two mechs with different play styles, different objectives, and so on. Why should I start playing MWO and only play against other lights, and then level up and play against only Assaults? Why is this a good idea? Its plain dumb.

And no, I don’t want all kind of sounds and badges popping up on my screen.



Battletech doesn't have in lore, the vast advances of technology between the mech in one era vs. that of another. For example, you have the Thanatos battlemech from 3061 (its a mech featured in the MW4 series). The IS mechs during that era are already featuring Omnipod technology. But is it any superior to a Cataphract, Timberwolf or Summoner in 3052? Not really.

On the other hand, there is a vast difference in technology in the true historical lore of our weapons. A T-34 is far outmatched by a T-44 which in turn is greatly outmatched by a T-54.

And that is why you have a tiering system. Your puny BT-7 tank does not anyway, belong in the same battlefield as a King Tiger or IS-7 or a T-54 tank.

If a tank, warplane or warship is too powerful for that tier, guess what, do you need to nerf that thing? No, just raise the tier.

Nerfing and boosting is done on a class level, like boosting destroyers as an entire class against battleships and destroyers.

Also you have the wrong idea about WoT and WoWS. Destroyers go all the way to Tier X. Light tanks also go up to a very higher tier in WoT.

For that matter, the tiering system makes matches more equal, and in my experience, WoT has much less stomps than MWO. Frequent stomps are just a bad game experience either way, and it will erode the player base. Those people playing Tier XIII to X? To get there you need to grind thousands of games in your belt. Yes its a lot of grind, but it also means those players are heavily decked with experience, and the experience gap between the worst noob in the team vs. the top player is going to be much closer than in MWO, where first day noobs with trial mechs are thrown into game with veterans with thousands of games in experience.

WoT's deflection and HP system is screwy. Like you said, sometimes firing at something nearly point blank and the shot either misses (thanks to RNG) or deflects (especially if the other tank is two tiers higher than you), is totally frustrating. That's why I prefer to play War Thunder when it comes to tanks. If my T-34-85 manages outmaneuver and shoots a King Tiger right at the flank, that King Tiger should rightly blow in one shot. And it does, for most of the time, assuming the shot manages to tough off the ammo racks. In WoT, this would only deflect or take only a small fraction of the King Tiger's HP.

Edited by Anjian, 17 June 2015 - 10:28 PM.


#114 IraqiWalker

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 10:35 PM

View PostAnjian, on 17 June 2015 - 10:25 PM, said:



Battletech doesn't have in lore, the vast advances of technology between the mech in one era vs. that of another. For example, you have the Thanatos battlemech from 3061 (its a mech featured in the MW4 series). The IS mechs during that era are already featuring Omnipod technology. But is it any superior to a Cataphract, Timberwolf or Summoner in 3052? Not really.

On the other hand, there is a vast difference in technology in the true historical lore of our weapons. A T-34 is far outmatched by a T-44 which in turn is greatly outmatched by a T-54.

And that is why you have a tiering system. Your puny BT-7 tank does not anyway, belong in the same battlefield as a King Tiger or IS-7 or a T-54 tank.

If a tank, warplane or warship is too powerful for that tier, guess what, do you need to nerf that thing? No, just raise the tier.

Nerfing and boosting is done on a class level, like boosting destroyers as an entire class against battleships and destroyers.

Also you have the wrong idea about WoT and WoWS. Destroyers go all the way to Tier X. Light tanks also go up to a very higher tier in WoT.

For that matter, the tiering system makes matches more equal, and in my experience, WoT has much less stomps than MWO. Frequent stomps are just a bad game experience either way, and it will erode the player base. Those people playing Tier XIII to X? To get there you need to grind thousands of games in your belt. Yes its a lot of grind, but it also means those players are heavily decked with experience, and the experience gap between the worst noob in the team vs. the top player is going to be much closer than in MWO, where first day noobs with trial mechs are thrown into game with veterans with thousands of games in experience.

WoT's deflection and HP system is screwy. Like you said, sometimes firing at something nearly point blank and the shot either misses (thanks to RNG) or deflects (especially if the other tank is two tiers higher than you), is totally frustrating. That's why I prefer to play War Thunder when it comes to tanks. If my T-34-85 manages outmaneuver and shoots a King Tiger right at the flank, that King Tiger should rightly blow in one shot. And it does, for most of the time, assuming the shot manages to tough off the ammo racks. In WoT, this would only deflect or take only a small fraction of the King Tiger's HP.


This is why whenever there's a discussion like this. I never use WoT. It's not a good tank simulator, when compared against WarThunder. WT took what WoT was trying to do, and realized where the mistakes were, and improved on the whole system. The armor penetration formulas, crew, ammo types, armor types, tank construction, effective and real armor, all of that is calculated much better in WT.


Yes, tiers are another way of balancing something. If a plane/tank/ship/whatever is too effective for it's tier bump it up a bit. The problem is that it will still run into a LOT of opponents way below it.

In MWO the best virtue of it's tech is that an ML is still an ML, whether it's on a commando, or an Atlas, it's still just as effective. While as you mentioned above, a T-35 has no business fighting a T-45, or an IS-2. Hell, the shells won't penetrate. That's the main problem with the tier system. When you get dropped into a field where the enemy has something that you just can't hurt, no matter what.

#115 Anjian

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 02:20 AM

I think its not a problem of the tier system. The problem ---- if you consider it a problem --- is that WoT and War Thunder are based on a lore that is real. Real as in historically real. They are mimicking actual armor values, and goes as far as calculating penetration figures based on angles and slopes. The guns are based on the real guns and follow their ballistic tests, and in the case of War Thunder, goes as far as simulating their ballistic arcs and properties in game. In War Thunder, you see people actually posting graphs and documents on cannon ballistics, or actual recorded engine power and flight data on the planes, or more documentation on the armor values of the tanks along its different places, and the developers would incorporate them once they studied them for authenticity. In fact, I would say War Thunder puts authenticity first ahead of balance. The audience that plays War Thunder, would accept and prefer, authenticity ahead of balance. During the development phase, the developers would visit the museums and study the real tanks for themselves, pour through old documents related to the testing of these vehicles.

A Timberwolf mech --- that is a completely fictional construct.

A Tiger tank is not. It is a real tank, fought in a real war, and killed real people.

The fictional construct allows for more liberal changes. A construct that is based on a real thing, it has to follow that real thing. This is why the tiering system comes in because you have to match it with vehicles of its time and technology range. A Tiger tank is supposed to behave like a Tiger tank --- kill a lot of other tanks while shrugging their shots off. It is a monster, a beast. They kill a lot of Shermans and T-34s. If you are experiencing that frustration, good, that's what Allied soldiers experienced.

And just like in the war, Zeros are more maneuverable, Mustangs are faster and Fockewulf fighters pack a lot of cannon. If that B-17 bomber takes a lot of hits and sprays from a godawful number of turrets, yeah, that's what they did in real life, so remember that when you dive into one with your BF-109.

But here is another thing. These imbalances also give character. They make things more interesting. They make things alive.

And remember, these are lore imbalances. Imbalances based on their nature and reality, or as dictated in canon lore. In MWO, you get a lot of imbalances that are artificial and don't exist in lore. For example, we can accept that the Mad Cat or Timberwolf is a powerful even overwhelming mech at times, because that is part of the lore. They are supposed to kick major ass. In fact, the bristling success of the Mad Cat would even lead to three sequels. But things like the Thunderbolt's energy superiority, the Dragon 4N's rattattat AC-5 quirk, those don't exist in lore. In fact, MWO are constantly filled with non lore metas that it does not feel recognizably Battletech.

Now going back to World of Warships, look at the warships posted by the players above.

This is in fact, a real Aoba class ship. They are not made up for a game. They existed once, fought and sank. The ship in the game is modeled after these ships. Its not the best heavy cruiser the Japanese had and its in a disadvantage against US heavy cruisers. But thats what they are. The size, the scale, the position of the turrets, their secondary guns, their torpedo tubes.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Edited by Anjian, 18 June 2015 - 02:23 AM.


#116 IraqiWalker

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 03:01 PM

I'm not arguing from an authenticity standpoint. I'm a HUGE military history buff. First magazine I ever read was an early 90s Almanac, had troop listings, weaponry, ammo, armor, whatever you want.

I'm talking about Balance, One of the problems with a tier system, is that when it gives you the short end of the stick, it REALLY gives you the short end of the stick, and you end up against enemies you cannot hurt. Which is very authentic and based on how real wars are fought. You will face an opponent that you cannot hurt.

From an authenticity standpoint, WarThunder gets a 9/10 out of me. From a balance standpoint, there are some problems, mainly due to the tier system, and the fact that there aren't enough enough tiers spread around. So a jump of one tier can have a godly difference on the vehicle.

#117 Anjian

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Posted 18 June 2015 - 07:06 PM

Tier system is a bit more of a ****** up in tanks than in aircraft or warships.

Aircraft and warships are generally relatively fragile so that a lower tier plane or ship can take out a higher tier one. In War Thunder, a Tier 2 plane can still easily shoot down a Tier 4 plane. The .7 BR difference in War Thunder translates a rough equivalent of two tiers in World of Tanks, so two tiers in War Thunder (2.1 BR difference) is like over four Wargaming tiers.

Warships is similar. The torpedo broadside of a Tier IV destroyer can sink a Tier 8 cruiser and can nearly bring down a Tier 8 battleship.

But tanks are a whole different story due to the armor deflection mechanics and the sheer difference in cannon range and penetration. A 5.7 tank in War Thunder is in a severe disadvantage over a 6.7, like anyone who has a T-34-85, an IS-1, a Tiger 1, Panther D, an M36 or a Sherman Jumbo 76W, facing up the likes of the Tiger 2, JagdPanther, M26 Pershing, Elefant, or IS-2 mod 1944. World of Tanks is more of a greater pain due to the non historical, fantasy upgrades on the tanks that distorts them well beyond their historical limits (KV-85, seriously with a 100mm, King Tiger with JagdTiger's cannon?) Plus World of Tanks is seriously polluted with a fantasy tanks (see the Chinese line), paper and prototype tanks that never made it to service. Fantasy tanks in War Thunder are kept minimal and not overpowered (Tiger II with 105mm and Panther II).

The experience of fantasy and paper tanks in WoT has generally soured wargaming fans to that idea, hence great skepticism when it comes to paper and prototype additions.

Fortunately War Thunder air forces, the effects of paper and prototype aircraft are minimal, the Soviet I-185, the Japanese pusher prop Shinden and Japanese jets based on the ME-163 and ME-262. Still I'm a little annoyed with this. The I-185 are a bit undertiered and a troll plane, while the Shinden is a horror for bombers. At least warplanes do not get fantasy upgrades,

Warships are mostly historical, for the most part, currently and fortunately. But I do worry about the paper ships in the Japanese tree (historically planned, never went to service) like the Amagi, Ibuki, Zao, Izumi but most specifically, the Hakuryu carrier. There are potential for more paper ships in the future such as the Soviet Soyuz class battleship, the German H class battleships, the O and P cruisers.

The difference between the fantasy and the real is that the real has historical documents to work with to supply the numbers that would define the specs and the characteristics of the item. With the fantasy, you may have some historical reports, but there are going to be gaps which your mind will have to fill in, and filling those blanks present the most danger in balancing (you can say that reality is its own balancing element, since anything that is real, is based on physics, testing and is a statement of feasibility.)

Edited by Anjian, 18 June 2015 - 07:09 PM.


#118 Anjian

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Posted 20 June 2015 - 09:25 AM

0.4 of WoWS now in limited alpha testing. We might expect 0.4 to be the OBT client. It appears the premiums are being sent back to the drawing board, like the Albany, Warspite, Yubari and the Kitakami. New premium ships are being introduced to replace them, including a member of the much awaited Takao class heavy cruisers.

Posted Image

Panpakapan! It's the Atago!

#119 Hit the Deck

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 08:29 AM

So, apparently we are entering Open Beta and I just got a USS Arkansas which I completely didn't expect! She has a weird design though, where 2/3 of her gun are mounted on the aft. They are also not that accurate but we'll see how she performs the more I play.

I'm now playing destroyers and it's been a blast so far! It's like piloting an Oxide.

Edited by Hit the Deck, 26 June 2015 - 12:44 PM.


#120 Davegt27

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  • 7,021 posts
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Posted 26 June 2015 - 08:24 PM

I watched a lot of YouTube on this game joined and put in a request for closed beta
Lost interest in this game

I will have to wait and see






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