95 replies to this topic

[Greenjulius]

Even without MASC, the Shadowcat should be a great stealthy mech. Kind of like a grown up Kitfox with more armor and heat efficiency. ECM and high mounted hardpoints always make a good mech. MASC will just be the icing on the cake for making rapid getaways and quickly finding perches.

Mcgral18, on 09 June 2015 - 05:53 PM, said:

16 tons efficiently, perhaps 15.9 or something when completely maxed (due to Ferro), a few points off the 16 mark.

This^
I design my builds with the assumption that I will strip a little head armor down to make it an even 16. Leaves plenty of room for hard hitting ECM-hidden builds with SRM/MPLs, or LPL sniper rigs.

The Arctic Cheetah is insane. It's already the best Clan light. Possibly going to match the Firestarter, or exceed it in many ways. ECM and Clan SPL/ERSL? I'm already in fear of how dangerous this little bugger will be.

The Ebon Jaguar is going to be the first Clan mech besides the Dire (Warhawk can't carry enough backup weapons) that can do Dual Gauss decently, (2xGauss+50 rounds 3-4xERSL) and can match up against a Timberwolf in firepower. It also looks like it has reasonably high mounted weapons. It will probably not unseat the Timber, but should fit in with the Hellbringer as being a great alternative Heavy.

The Executioner is the wildcard. It's likely to be as big and fat as the Atlas and Gargy, so it's a sponge. However, depending on the JJ and MASC implementation, it could be a very dangerous brawler. No one wants to be up against a 12xSPL or ERSL spam assault that can run in bursts at ~90kph. (If MASC works like I expect it to)



Overall, you're safe if you pick up the Ebon Jaguar pack, but can gamble on the Executioner. PGI's treatment of poor gargles has me a little worried, but I'm sure it will find it's place in the niche Banshee-like Wubber-Killer role.

Edited by Greenjulius, 10 June 2015 - 11:09 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Greenjulius, on 10 June 2015 - 11:00 AM, said:

Even without MASC, the Shadowcat should be a great stealthy mech. Kind of like a grown up Kitfox with more armor and heat efficiency. ECM and high mounted hardpoints always make a good mech. MASC will just be the icing on the cake for making rapid getaways and quickly finding perches.

The Arctic Cheetah is insane. It's already the best Clan light. Possibly going to match the Firestarter, or exceed it in many ways. ECM and Clan SPL/ERSL? I'm already in fear of how dangerous this little bugger will be.

The Ebon Jaguar is going to be the first Clan mech besides the Dire (Warhawk can't carry enough backup weapons) that can do Dual Gauss decently, (2xGauss+50 rounds 3-4xERSL) and can match up against a Timberwolf in firepower. It also looks like it has reasonably high mounted weapons. It will probably not unseat the Timber, but should fit in with the Hellbringer as being a great alternative Heavy.

The Executioner is the wildcard. It's likely to be as big and fat as the Atlas and Gargy, so it's a sponge. However, depending on the JJ and MASC implementation, it could be a very dangerous brawler. No one wants to be up against a 12xSPL or ERSL spam assault that can run in bursts at ~90kph. (If MASC works like I expect it to)



Overall, you're safe if you pick up the Ebon Jaguar pack, but can gamble on the Executioner. PGI's treatment of poor gargles has me a little worried, but I'm sure it will find it's place in the niche Banshee-like Wubber-Killer role.

You've got to strip the entire LA and some of the LT to fit 60 rounds+dual Gauss.
You can't really get 4 ERSLs unless you strip both legs and the rest of the LT.

Cat is accurate enough; a fat Cute Fox/Raven with the pod space of an Adder (less when the Flamer is removed) but with a full compliment of TrueDubs.

[FupDup]

Mcgral18, on 10 June 2015 - 11:07 AM, said:

You've got to strip the entire LA and some of the LT to fit 60 rounds+dual Gauss.
You can't really get 4 ERSLs unless you strip both legs and the rest of the LT.

People seem to ALWAYS forget about having to strip oodles of armor when they talk about the dual Goose Cauldron Born.

For Julius' specific build, he would need to strip 2 full tons of armor. Since it's Clan Ferro, this means 76 entire armor points. On a 65 ton mech, this is almost 20% of the mech's total armor. :\

2 LPL + Gauss will be substantially more optimal than dual Gauss on this mech, because of not having to strip the mech in half and also making full use of your hardwired 3 DHS.

[Mcgral18]

FupDup, on 10 June 2015 - 11:12 AM, said:

People seem to ALWAYS forget about having to strip oodles of armor when they talk about the dual Goose Cauldron Born.

For Julius' specific build, he would need to strip 2 full tons of armor. Since it's Clan Ferro, this means 76 entire armor points. On a 65 ton mech, this is almost 20% of the mech's total armor. :\

2 LPL + Gauss will be substantially more optimal than dual Gauss on this mech, because of not having to strip the mech in half and also making full use of your hardwired 3 DHS.

The 60 round build and no backups should be acceptable.

Only ~10 points off the LT, and the entire shield arm? Legs could also take a few points, but I wouldn't go further than that.

[Greenjulius]

Mcgral18, on 10 June 2015 - 11:07 AM, said:

You've got to strip the entire LA and some of the LT to fit 60 rounds+dual Gauss.
You can't really get 4 ERSLs unless you strip both legs and the rest of the LT.

Cat is accurate enough; a fat Cute Fox/Raven with the pod space of an Adder (less when the Flamer is removed) but with a full compliment of TrueDubs.

That's why I said 50 rounds of Gauss... 25 per gauss is what I consider a good minimum for the average match. Once the 50 rounds are gone, just use the right arm as a shield and go plinking with the ERSLs.

Stripping an arm in its entirety and reducing leg armor is also in the game plan. I've created a few builds that can do the 4th ERSL, but 3x is definitely a more comfortable spot. Drop the head armor down to 10 points as well. I haven't died to a head shot in months.

I run my 2xGauss Ilya with 60 rounds of ammo, 3xML and an XL280, and find that the 15 damage from the 3xML can really make a difference in the late game. Clan ERSL are very close to being the same weapon, 75% of the range, but with better heat efficiency. I think the hardiness of a Clan XL can offset the loss of the arm, at least in my experiences. Just use the left side as a shield.

Hell, I already run my Hellbringer with no arms in some builds, and do just fine with it.

Edited by Greenjulius, 10 June 2015 - 11:30 AM.

[Lightfoot]

Gauss would probably be ok for the Scat with no charge-up de-sync although I usually used an LB-20X in earlier MechWarrior games. That's probably not possible in MWO at least for the prime. Gauss with the de-sync would negate the Scats speed by quite a bit so something else that allows snap-shots. The Gauss would be ammo-starved anyway.

[Mudhutwarrior]

I see a lot of "I get" In reality you get nothing. Maybe a promise that you may enjoy use of it for a while.

I cannot do emotional buys even though I was trained like most every consumer to think that way. Right now I look at the track record here and the fact that the forums are ignored over Twitter and NGNG.

I buy one mech at a time and its been like that for a while. Just my share to support the game nothing more. I certainly won't buy the packs even though emotionally I would like to . Reason wins over emotion unit PGI actually excites me to do other wise.

[C E Dwyer]

Roadkill, on 09 June 2015 - 07:34 AM, said:

From a lore/popularity point of view, I agree. All four of those Mechs are famous (or infamous) designs with a rich backstory.

But from an MWO mechanics point of view, it's a terrible package. The Wolfhound, Crab, and Black Knight are all laser vomit Mechs with virtually no distinguishing characteristics between the available variants. The Mauler is just a lighter King Crab across the board with torso ballistics instead of arm ballistics.

So if you're a lore junkie and you just really like one or more of these chassis, then the pack will probably seem fine. I think there are a lot of MWO players out there like that, so the pack will probably sell reasonably well.

But if you're purely an MWO player, meaning that the lore and history of the Mechs doesn't really matter to you, then there's very little reason to buy this pack. Wait for them to be available for c-bills and pick up the two or three variants (out of 16!) that are actually worth having.

I think that goes for most mechs, I think they stopped bring much to the game for over a year, with a few exceptions.

you have to really like 'that mech' or be a collector to continue buying them.

but on topic, I would hope masc is going to work fine, as they've been working on it since the flea..

[IraqiWalker]

Alan Davion, on 10 June 2015 - 10:39 AM, said:

Except Russ said recently that the flamer on the Adder would soon become removable.

That's the exception, and not the rule. Most of us would still rather the flamer be irremovable, and they actually fix the flamers. Which is what we've been waiting for, since the Firestarter debuted.

Cathy, on 10 June 2015 - 12:17 PM, said:

I would hope masc is going to work fine, as they've been working on it since the flea..

I'm not sure that's the case. It may have been on the board since the flea, but I doubt they had actually been addressing it. It feels like MASC on the backlog until Wave 3 popped up.

[Redhook]

Hades Trooper, on 09 June 2015 - 09:39 PM, said:

An where was this exactly did they mention it?

How can i have a positive view without any information.

I play MWO and i use these forums. Information made on 3rd party sites is not something a player of MWO should be expected to chase down.

Maybe your only new idk, but from someone who's been here since closed beta and has bought into the products in the past i had full informtion on how they would work BEFORE i bought the product.

Was there information on MASC before they started selling it for pre sale? NO.

The lack of information before hand and people assumptions on how they think it could work are 2 different things.

After being burnt by MWO a few times now, can u blame a person for wanting full disclosure before they part with anymore money? Is that too unreasonable to ask now?

No you didnt! Clan ballistic was to be a choice of slug or rapid fire . We all knew it was in the making and we still dont have it , but they all kicked ass when they came out. They will most certainly be overpowered and get the nerf hammer just history dictates. Tell ya what ......Don't buy them and wait till they come out, simple. I'll be rocking them though! Pay to grin baby!

[Parnage Winters]

Why would you not wanting Masc details..

How can you defend spending money without the full information on a major feature of a mech? Kind of a big deal for the mechs it comes with as you can't remove them so one would hope they aren't terrible.

Some people really just want to be taken advantage of, not wanting the full information on something you're paying for. Gotta be kidding me.

[Gas Guzzler]

Parnage, on 10 June 2015 - 03:38 PM, said:

Why would you not wanting Masc details..

How can you defend spending money without the full information on a major feature of a mech? Kind of a big deal for the mechs it comes with as you can't remove them so one would hope they aren't terrible.

Some people really just want to be taken advantage of, not wanting the full information on something you're paying for. Gotta be kidding me.

If the MASC implementation is so terrible (we will get details during this countdown thing) I will get a refund.

It would have to be pretty bad for that to happen.

[Dirk Le Daring]

Hades Trooper, on 09 June 2015 - 01:36 AM, said:

Or have a missed something and PGI has given this info somewhere that i just don't look? aka i hate twitter.

This is from the June/July roadmap in Command Chair... MASC - This patch introduces a new piece of equipment on the Executioner and it will function as described in the most recent town hall with fine tuning of variables still underway.

I cannot remember how far into the Town Hall it is, but as I said last night, it is there. I just cannot remember exactly how it works. Either way, I would have thought that should have been included in the roadmap.

[Hades Trooper]

Widowmaker1981, on 10 June 2015 - 03:55 AM, said:

You could find out a lot of the info you are looking for if you did a little research.

MASC on the executioner is 4 tons, 4 slots and is located in the left torso. On the Shadow Cat it is 2 tons, 2 slots and located in the center torso

It is fixed equipment in the TROs, so its a safe bet that it will not be removable (like JJs on the Summoner et al, flamer on the adder, etc)

Its exact mechanics in MWO are unknown at this point, but its a safe bet that there will be a fuel bar like JJs, and when that bar is depleted the Internal structure of the legs will begin to take dmg. I would assume that the speed increase will be the same value as in TT - Shadow Cat will go from 106.9 (9 TT hexes) to 142.6 (12 TT hexes) and Executioner from 71.3 (6 TT Hexes) to 95.1 (8 TT hexes)

We know that MWO rules are heavily based on TT ones, so the mechanics are almost certain. The numbers are obviously subject to change for balance reasons, but that is the same with any and all things in this game.

Why should i have to research for this outside of the MWO forums? Why isn't there a post by a dev that speaks directly about MASC?

Regardless of it passed the early adopter programme or not, it's just bad business model to ask customers to buy something without information and with so little time left before the release the full info has not been released, just this how it will kinda work is laziness in my eyes.

Would your boss at work let u sell a product like that? No as it would leave the door open for customers to ask for there money back.

The degree people leave common sense behind when it comes to games is staggering, no other product would people do this but when it comes to games they toss common sense out the window.

[Hades Trooper]

IraqiWalker, on 09 June 2015 - 09:59 PM, said:

Yeah, pretty much what we have here as well. A "general" idea. We knew they could be burst, and LBXs might work, but that's all we got.

With MASC we know it will give us a speed boost, it will use a gauge like JJs, and that's about it.

How much leg damage do i take for over using it? will it apply to both legs or just 1 leg, how quickly will the damage occur? continous amount or a progressive increased amount the longer it's kept being used? Is it a toggle or a hold key? Does it create heat? Will it also be like JJ's in that i can't cool off heat while in effect?

These are just a few questions i could think of in 60 seconds.

The fact these details are yet to be release comes across to me as a poorly thought out idea they still have not finalised details on as if they had why would they have given them out so customers can make an informed decision?

[Hades Trooper]

Russ Bullock ‏@russ_bullock 1h1 hour ago
@Hades_Trooper MASC was a tough thing to get done it's been a long time coming - if it was squared away earlier it would have been better

so does that mean it's not as good as he would like?

Edited by Hades Trooper, 10 June 2015 - 10:12 PM.

[Navid A1]

Hades Trooper, on 10 June 2015 - 10:11 PM, said:

Russ Bullock ‏@russ_bullock 1h1 hour ago
@Hades_Trooper MASC was a tough thing to get done it's been a long time coming - if it was squared away earlier it would have been better

so does that mean it's not as good as he would like?

um...wait... what?

so another clan TC and IS CC last minute designs?


MASC was not my priority in wave III, but reading those kind of tweets is...saddening. I read the rest of it too. I agree, these kind of info should have been available long ago.

Hades Trooper, on 10 June 2015 - 07:54 PM, said:

...
The degree people leave common sense behind when it comes to games is staggering, no other product would people do this but when it comes to games they toss common sense out the window.

Maybe because games can change for the better even after you buy (or for the worse if certain developers are concerned)

Edited by Navid A1, 10 June 2015 - 10:35 PM.

[Widowmaker1981]

As long as MASC is balanced to be at least as good overall as spending those extra tons on the engine, it will be fine. I dont see why it wouldnt be, and if its useless the forum rage will get it fixed. Only way its useless imo is if its too hard to avoid leg damage (imo it really doesnt matter how fast it hurts your legs, you NEVER want to do that)

[Tina Benoit]

M.A.S.C will be released this coming patch along with the Executioner and Ebon Jaguar.
It will also be included in the Countdown sneak peeks as a preview video on how it works!

[Big Tin Man]

Tina Benoit, on 11 June 2015 - 10:19 AM, said:

M.A.S.C will be released this coming patch along with the Executioner and Ebon Jaguar.
It will also be included in the Countdown sneak peeks as a preview video on how it works!

Today's?