60 replies to this topic

[patataman]

Mmm i don't know, while the AA, 1R and SIB are far from stellar, i find the first two useable, the AA as a tall light with dual ams for escort and the 1R as a jump sniper with dual ppcs. I don't own a SIB, but 2 ll and 2 srm sound like a decent build. The problem is the 1X, that poor thing... it needs a lot of love, i like the idea of trading 1 balistic for 1 energy too.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

The main reason I'd like to see a B traded for an E are for builds like:
VND-1X goose waffle 3 ML
VND-1X AC10 3MPL
VND-1X Ultra5 2LL


Instead of relying on pretty much just this:

VND-1X AC10 PPC

[DAYLEET]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 10 June 2015 - 08:15 AM, said:

Can confirm. The ERPPC benefits from PPC quirks but not vice versa (sadly).

I can also confirm this as i was using the 1X monday and made my own test. I was taking pot shot at people across the map on river city and my uac5 couldnt keep up with the erppc and i couldnt aim both at the same time and the erppc was so much easier to aim.

[Deathlike]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 10 June 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

I tested it with VND-1AA. With no quirks an ERPPC jumps heat up to 25%. With just the 10% general energy the heat should be jumped up to 23%. But when I tested it, the heat only went to 20% with an ERPPC.

To verify, the PPC only jumps heat up to 13% heat due to the quirks only making it generate 8 heat (20%) per shot.

I'm tempted to run that.

While this clearly has Thunderbolt-9S ERPPC-8 heat issue, the Vindicator still sucks (Thunderwub is still in style).

I still like the Ice Ferret more than the Vindicators for sure though. BJs are still wonderful things too!

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 10 June 2015 - 01:30 PM, said:

The main reason I'd like to see a B traded for an E are for builds like:
VND-1X goose waffle 3 ML
VND-1X AC10 3MPL
VND-1X Ultra5 2LL


Instead of relying on pretty much just this:

VND-1X AC10 PPC

Well to be fair, you could trade a B hardpoint for an E hardpoint and the AC10/PPC build would still work as is. The problem is they have yet to change any mech's hardpoints since the old days of CB, so I figure we are more likely to see heavy quirks than a hardpoint change.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Deathlike, on 10 June 2015 - 03:55 PM, said:

I'm tempted to run that.

While this clearly has Thunderbolt-9S ERPPC-8 heat issue, the Vindicator still sucks (Thunderwub is still in style).

I still like the Ice Ferret more than the Vindicators for sure though. BJs are still wonderful things too!

This is currently my VND-1AA.

It was this though, but once I put on the ERPPC, I needed a few extra sinks.

[FupDup]

WM Quicksilver, on 10 June 2015 - 04:09 PM, said:

Well to be fair, you could trade a B hardpoint for an E hardpoint and the AC10/PPC build would still work as is. The problem is they have yet to change any mech's hardpoints since the old days of CB, so I figure we are more likely to see heavy quirks than a hardpoint change.

In this specific case, I would rather that we get actually viable and decent light ballistics to fill those hardpoints instead of just adding more lasers to everything. Namely, MGs and AC/2s that don't stink.

...And also the Binary Lazor Cannon, for mechs with only 1 energy hardpoint (head slots don't count!).

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

WM Quicksilver, on 10 June 2015 - 04:09 PM, said:

Well to be fair, you could trade a B hardpoint for an E hardpoint and the AC10/PPC build would still work as is. The problem is they have yet to change any mech's hardpoints since the old days of CB, so I figure we are more likely to see heavy quirks than a hardpoint change.

The AC/10 PPC build would be good even if it had just the 1E and 1B.

Swapping a hardpoint would give room for more builds.

FupDup, on 10 June 2015 - 04:11 PM, said:

In this specific case, I would rather that we get actually viable and decent light ballistics to fill those hardpoints instead of just adding more lasers to everything. Namely, MGs and AC/2s that don't stink.

...And also the Binary Lazor Cannon, for mechs with only 1 energy hardpoint (head slots don't count!).

Well if the small scale ballistics weren't hot garbage, then builds like this wouldn't be hot garbage.

The problem is that AC2's have a heat to damage ratio that's just unbelievably bad. Not to mention the nerfed ass ROF.

Edited by Lord Scarlett Johan, 10 June 2015 - 04:15 PM.

[FupDup]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 10 June 2015 - 04:14 PM, said:

Well if the small scale ballistics weren't hot garbage, then builds like this wouldn't be hot garbage.

Or somebody might even be able to use 3 MGs on that arm without getting laughed at. But alas, PGI still lives in fear of the 6 MG Spider, so we can't have things.

[Bishop Steiner]

WM Quicksilver, on 10 June 2015 - 06:56 AM, said:

It has been too long since a "buff the Vindicators" thread was created, so I figure I'll try and renew some effort into improving them because they still need it the worst out of all the mediums (Cicadas getting an honorable mention followed by the Trench Buckets). While it would be nice to see extra missile hardpoints all around, since quirks seem to be the way to go for balancing things, how about some quirks? I have some ideas but lore buffs wouldn't necessarily like them.

Basically my idea for quirks center around a few builds.
VND-1AA (PPC Jump Harasser)
VND-1R (LRM Spammer, Head TAG makes it possible for a mini-4J with JJs)
VND-SIB (SRM Brawler, could still make use of LLs, just need different quirks)
VND-1X (Slower but more "heat efficient" version of the 1AA)

Will post some ideas for quirks later, but would love to see a focus on the quirks outside of the only good weapons mounted on the stock variants.

I prefer the tVND-AA for the LRMer. A single missile rack limits your options, but the speed helps maintain effectiveness.

[Bishop Steiner]

Lexx, on 10 June 2015 - 09:20 AM, said:

I bought the St. Ives Blues hero mech when it first came out, mainly because I thought it looked cool.

It lacks the speed needed to survive, and there are far too few weapons hardpoints to make it viable as a slow medium mech.

The SIB was so bad, I had PGI to refund the MC and I got rid of it. I have never once regretted that decision.

I don't want any Vindicators. Even with the quirks they got, they are not worth using. There is nothing that mech can do that a Blackjack can't do better.

what was that you were saying......


I couldn't quite hear you over the sound of my own Awesomeness.
(I kid, I kid. They ain't no Stormcrow, that's for sure, but...... they fit certain pilots just fine. But lordy lordy, don't let me stop you from up-quirking them..... my joyride could only get more joyful!)

[LordMelvin]

I tried dual PPC on the 1AA but it was waaay too hot. I dropped them and threw in three LL. Cooler to alpha, right arm has great convergence, can fire the left arm and head laser when the heat gets high, and doesn't have weapons all on one side.

I'm generally against heat or RoF quirks, but I wouldn't say no to some agility quirks. The Panther makes a better Vindi than the Vindi does because it's smaller and more nimble.

Edited by LordMelvin, 10 June 2015 - 04:35 PM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

LordMelvin, on 10 June 2015 - 04:33 PM, said:

I tried dual PPC on the 1AA but it was waaay too hot. I dropped them and threw in three LL. Cooler to alpha, right arm has great convergence, can fire the left arm and head laser when the heat gets high, and doesn't have weapons all on one side.

I'm generally against heat or RoF quirks, but I wouldn't say no to some agility quirks. The Panther makes a better Vindi than the Vindi does because it's smaller and more nimble.

Wat?

Two PPCs on the 1AA generates 16 heat while three LLs generates 18.9.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

FupDup, on 10 June 2015 - 04:11 PM, said:

In this specific case, I would rather that we get actually viable and decent light ballistics to fill those hardpoints instead of just adding more lasers to everything. Namely, MGs and AC/2s that don't stink.

...And also the Binary Lazor Cannon, for mechs with only 1 energy hardpoint (head slots don't count!).

Screw the BLazer, let's get some Heavy PPCs in this game so I can shoot lightning from my Vindi. On a more serious note, AC2s will never work like they should for this sort of mech. Mediums have never traditionally been fire suppression machines and I have yet to see a dev group try to turn into anything but a rapid fire weapon. As for MGs, MGs not being crap still wouldn't really save this mech, simply doesn't have enough damage/speed outside of those to be useful.

Bishop Steiner, on 10 June 2015 - 04:19 PM, said:

I prefer the tVND-AA for the LRMer. A single missile rack limits your options, but the speed helps maintain effectiveness.

I know you do, but the 1R has the most room for backup weapons + TAG. Plus the 4J is pretty impressive despite it only going around 90kph (w/Speed Tweak), which is around what the 1R is limited to anyway, so I went with making that the missile spammer. ALRM20, TAG, 1 JJ, and 4 SL for back it is rather close to being a 4J.

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 10 June 2015 - 04:14 PM, said:

The AC/10 PPC build would be good even if it had just the 1E and 1B.

Swapping a hardpoint would give room for more builds.

I was agreeing with you Johan, not disagreeing . I just don't see it happening because PGI has yet to do it since Beta went public.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

WM Quicksilver, on 10 June 2015 - 04:43 PM, said:

stuff

I wouldn't mind Snub-nosed, light, heavy, or PPC capacitors.

[Bishop Steiner]

LordMelvin, on 10 June 2015 - 04:33 PM, said:

I tried dual PPC on the 1AA but it was waaay too hot. I dropped them and threw in three LL. Cooler to alpha, right arm has great convergence, can fire the left arm and head laser when the heat gets high, and doesn't have weapons all on one side.

I'm generally against heat or RoF quirks, but I wouldn't say no to some agility quirks. The Panther makes a better Vindi than the Vindi does because it's smaller and more nimble.

I run 2x PPC plus 3x MLs on my 1R, no real issues.

[jay35]

Vindicators are one of only two chassis I don't own. Well, technically, I have one unplayed Quickdraw I got on sale to compliment the Quickdraw bundle I might get one day, but I haven't even gotten any Vindis because they're that bad. I even got Commandos before them. That's saying something.

Edited by jay35, 10 June 2015 - 05:00 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 June 2015 - 04:54 PM, said:

I run 2x PPC plus 3x MLs on my 1R, no real issues.

Except the mech is still bad and it also needs to separate it from the other 45 ton PPC spammer that has high mounts and the same engine limitations.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 10 June 2015 - 05:03 PM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

WM Quicksilver, on 10 June 2015 - 05:00 PM, said:

Except the mech is still bad and it also needs to separate it from the other 45 ton PPC spammer that has high mounts and the same engine limitations.

I was hoping the 1R would have an extra M harpoint as well as a 250 engine cap, then I could run five ML, two SRM6, Std250, three JJs, and 11 DHS. It'd be essentially a mini-4SP.

Edited by Lord Scarlett Johan, 10 June 2015 - 05:23 PM.

[Deathlike]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 10 June 2015 - 04:36 PM, said:

Wat?

Two PPCs on the 1AA generates 16 heat while three LLs generates 18.9.

lol

I thought the quirked ERPPCs got 8 heat like the Thunderbolts-9Ses (well, when it was the highly whined thing to do).

It's 12 heat with the quirks (8 heat for PPCs), so it's not too bad.

Considering that's 1 more heat than the 11 heat ERPPCs back @ the height of the meta... it should be alright...