15 replies to this topic

[Boulangerie]

So, I have recently considered adding in a Heavy chassis to my Mechlab.

I have been playing for a couple of years off and on, but have mostly stuck to Light, Medium, and Assault classes with the exception of a few trial runs. They have only changed the trial mechs once since I started playing again so I have had a chance to try out too many Heavy class mechs.

I currently own these chassis:

Light: RVN-3l, RVN-H
Medium: CN9-AL, CN9-YLW, CN9- AH, HBK-4SP
Assault: AS7-D-DC, AS7-S, AS7-RS

I am open to branching out my style. I'm not the best pilot, and can't commit a ton of time each week to playing, but I'd like to add in a Heavy just to represent each weight class.

Here's what I think of each chassis so far based solely on hearsay and speculation:

• Orion: Like a mini Atlas. good brawler but not great on its own
  
• Cataphract: Fire Support with low mounted but effective Ballistics. Very wide
  
• Catapult: Missiles or Gauss (K-2).
  
• Thunderbolt: Current Strongest, but will it get nerfed? Will that knock it out of place?
  
• Jager: High mounts, PPFLD Sniper or DPS
  
• Quickdraw: Bob Ross?
  
• Dragon: Suicide Commando, glass cannon, only one good variant
  
• Grasshopper: Tall for class but has a laser eye?

I will be mastering this chassis, and would like to retain three fun/viable variants, as opposed to mastering for just one variant.


Overall playing style is very broad and I like to mix up brawling, backstabbing, DPS styles.

[Tastian]

I own and have mastered every heavy on your list (working on the grasshoppper now).

Orion. I had fun with these but too slow without XL and not very XL friendly. You don't see too many of these on the battlefield because of it. If you LOVE your atlas you might enjoy them.

Cataphract. These have many solid builds available. They start out weak, slow, and low slung, but really begin to shine after you master them. Now with bonus ECM version!

Catapult. Ears and CT are too large. LRMS aren't great and the K2 looks good on paper but isn't stellar. The Jester is great however.

Thunderbolt. Very tanky and have some strong quirks. I LOVE mine. Even a JJ version.

Jager. Great with a couple ballistics. You will die alot because people know how to shoot their XL sides. Current meta puts 2 Gauss on them.

Quickdraw. Avoid these. From day 1 they have been too big. Again, I've had some great runs in them but just don't torture yourself.

Dragon. Avoid these at all costs. I used to LOVE these back in the day and danced a dance of joy when the Fang/Flame were released. They have been eclipsed by many other mechs.

Grasshopper. I've just finished elites on 3 of them. They are starting to come into place. Like many other mechs, they are TERRIBLE until elited. One giant walking CT makes them XL friendly but you'll get cored every time. Too tall and a one trick pony - laser vomit. Feels like a cross between the Quickdraw and the Gargoyle.


If you like dps go with the Jager. If you like brawling go with the Thunderbolt. And I forgot about the ECM Cataphract.



Edit* Add OPs additional questions and a couple more notes above.

**1. Which chassis has the most variety?**

If you mean which mechs are the anti-boat, the Orion has some good variety. It is NOT a boat of anything. Thunderbolts also can support a good number of builds.

(Cataphracts and Jagers are all about the ballistics. If you don't put 2 ballistics on the Jagers you are doing it wrong. Catapults are obviously all missiles except the K2 and Jester. Grasshoppers are all laser vomit. )


**2. Which chassis is most solid without quirks?**

So many mechs rely on their quirks. Cataphracts and Jagers shined before quirks and so the quirks just made them better.








**** Additional Footnote. Bad mech + great pilot = good game stats. Good mech + great pilot = fantastic game stats.

Edited by Tastian, 10 June 2015 - 11:40 AM.

[Night Thastus]

The Dragon is fantastic, it was my first mech. The current "good variant" (the 1N) is OP as ****. Frankly it needs to be nerfed. Being able to fire 2 AC/5's at 2x Speed is just nuts. It's like an AC/10 with the range of an AC/5, and the speed of a quirked AC/2. It's nuts.

I'd prefer to go the more balanced route, using a 5N with an Ultra 5 and some backup weapons.

The quickdraw is also fantastic, but requires quite a bit of work. You can't play it like other heavies. It was designed around being fast, not weapon-heavy. Mount the biggest XL you can fit and 7 JJ's, and it's the fastest (and furthest jumping) heavy you'll ever see. Regularly break 600 damage in it. Very fun.

Thunderbolt is fun as well, and durable as all hell, though I don't like it for some reason. Perhaps if we had heavy lasers I'd like it more.

Catapult is great as either a missleboat or other things, though I only have experience using missles. The A1 with 6x A-LRM-5 is absurd fun. Yes, the ears are large, but they have nuts quirks on them for armor and structure. Rarely get blown off if you're paying attention.

I want to like the Orion, I really do...but I just can't. I never get anywhere with it. I've used plenty of builds, mayn very damaging, but I never had fun doing it, despite the absurd damage I could get with 4x SRM-6 builds.

Edited by Night Thastus, 10 June 2015 - 11:06 AM.

[Boulangerie]

Thanks for the input so far.

Two more questions.

Which chassis has the most variety?

Which chassis is most solid without quirks?

[Big Tin Man]

My $0.02 from what I've driven:

Jager--It's been a while since I've seen anyone run a jager with something other than 3xUAC, dual gauss, or dual ac20's. If you want to be a high priority target with an XL that everyone knows how to kill, go for it. Yeah, they pack a punch but just aren't exciting for build diversity.

Thunderbolt--very sturdy mech. I somehow ended up with all of the variants, but my builds are very laser centric playing to their quirks. Solid choice. No Hero though...

Cataphract--my second mech chassis in MWO, and still a favorite. If you're into spending real $$, the ilya is a very good chassis, along with the 3D, 4X (the original king crab), and the 0XP for ECM. Great variation in builds and playstyles. Still wide as a barn, but I do ok in it with an XL. Go figure

Grasshopper--my best heavy mech by a mile. All laser vomit, all the time. Jump sniper, even over the top of your own mechs. I didn't have much trouble before eliting it. Once elited, it's a beast. Must run AT LEAST an XL 325, 18+ DHS and have jump jets. XL350+ is better. FWIW, I don't think I've ever been legged in one either, and I have ~150 games in a hopper.

Dragon--garbage, except for the 1N, which is magical, especially if you have a full dragon lance running. Not a good intro to heavies.

Cat K2--I haven't bought other cats yet. Feels very large and slow for what it carries.

TLDR: my choices--Cataphract #1, Hopper #2 (if you have the funds for big XL's only), Thunderbolt #3 (unless you don't have big XL engine money, then #2)

[Averen]

Some good advice here, might as well add my share since i've mastered bolt, phract, jager and onion:

Thunderbolt is probably the best bet. It's probably not gonna get nerfed further, and even then it would survive a small nerf after those huge - if necessary - buffs. MPL variant is a great brawler, unusually fast and powerfull for an IS heavy without sacrificing too much survivability. For long range engagements there is a solid ERPPC variant with high mounted guns. Otherwise there is a more run of the mill LPL variant with less damage but more range, which can also run some nice LPL/ML/SRM brawler setup.

Cataphract has a whole bunch of good builds, although they aren't exactly high level meta - then again, what is. Very solid mech, personally i'm missing something special to be really interested, even after mastering. Notably the arms make very good shields and the two torso energy slots are very high. ECM variant will be definitively interesting tho!

Jagermech can be fantastic, I love mine! Fragile, although not as fragile as you might think, it allows a nice range of support playstyles and the hitboxes and small size (the 'large' shields alone have the circumference of a cata) even allow some combat survivability and limited brawling. JM6-DD is one of the best support fire mechs in the game, 3xUACs+quirks (never underestimate the low jam) are an insane amount firepower if you can get the hits. Most of my jagers use UACs to some degree combined with varying degrees of laser support for alpha/dps styles, but there is ofc the quite dangerous meta-gauß sniper build. Missile-jager also allows some fun, if tricky SRM builds. People allegedly also use them for missile boats (heretics!), otherwise there are - imo boring and unimpressive - AC40 builds.
Size of the paragraph probably shows my bias. I found the mech, while relying on certain build rules, to allow lots of diversity in your playstyle, in order to bringing the huge amount of firepower to the right places at the right time.

Catapult is mostly used for missile boats, while the arms are just too vulnerable for most close combat (especially the 6 missile variant), and the K2 can be used for solid PPC builds with ACs.
Do not make the mistake of simply writing of the cata, tho. Rumors are PGI is planning to revert the terrible arm changes, which might breath some more life into this iconic mech.

Orion is a two edged sword. Can be dangerous when used correctly, but is outshined by more specialised mechs, and the timber outdoes it in every regard (if in a generally more boring fashion).
I still like it, even if it's not exactly a monster.

Edited by Averen, 10 June 2015 - 12:19 PM.

[Boulangerie]

So far I'm liking what I hear about Jager and thunderbolt.

I haven't heard much input on grasshopper and quickdraw. Are they just too new? What about them doesn't measure up in your eyes?

[Flak Kannon]

I would say the Jager is most lethal.

Triple UAC5s, Dual Gauss. A little squishy, but fun. You will want to buy both the XL225 and the XL255 if your going Jager.

The XL 255 fits nicely in the Cataphract 4x with 4 AC5's....

I really like jump jets right now, so my Quickdraws have become quite a weapon. I can spread damage so well, and get away from trouble better. May not hit as hard, but can be the annoyance that breaks attention so that your team can capitalize on your flying in front of that Dire or Atlas...


And lastly.. ' shhh it's a secret.. the best mech in the game is a Heavy Innersphere Chassis that shoots Ac5's ' ... ' shhhh'

[ProfessorD]

Are you deliberately staying IS-only?

If you are open to Clan chassis, you already know that the Timberwolf beats everything you listed by at least a little bit. Even after the laser nerfs, Timberwolves can do everything.

If not, Thunderbolts are absolutely your top choice. The best Thunderbolt build is a full on MPL boat with quite heavy quirks, but the other variants offer lots of flexibility. Whatever you play mechs for and whatever you consider "fun", Thunderbolts offer a little bit of everything: a well optimized boating build, a variant with jump jets, variants with all different types of hardpoints, and at least decent durability across all of them. Although I don't think "which is best without quirks" is even the right question to ask, since you did, you might as well know that Thunderbolts were almost universally considered bad before quirks.

Quickdraws are one of the posterchilds of terrible mech scaling. They should probably be directly scaled down by 15% or more. They have blocky, easy to hit side torsos, a big and slightly protruding centers, and legs that mysteriously draw in damage like magnets. I never figured that last bit out. Since they don't offer any interesting builds or firepower to compensate, they are all around poor choices right now (and always have been).

Grasshoppers are definitely still quite new. I don't own them yet and have been leaning on my unit-mates to explain why they seem so lackluster, but all I ever get is a vague "meh".

Edited by ProfessorD, 10 June 2015 - 05:40 PM.

[Leone]

Honestly, I only have the Orion, but I've found it is actually a better ranged mech than a brawler for me. I've an Ac 10, dual PPC, dual LRM 5 load out on a slow 210 standard engine that is actually my best Orion so far. An then my VA makes a decent Missile mech for training my LRM skills on.

Don't go Orion.

~Leone, Raid Leader of the Crimson Hand.

[Averen]

Leone, on 10 June 2015 - 10:03 PM, said:

Honestly, I only have the Orion, but I've found it is actually a better ranged mech than a brawler for me. I've an Ac 10, dual PPC, dual LRM 5 load out on a slow 210 standard engine that is actually my best Orion so far. An then my VA makes a decent Missile mech for training my LRM skills on.

Don't go Orion.

~Leone, Raid Leader of the Crimson Hand.

Yeah, the orion is a sad story: There are so many fun and little things you can do with it, but when it comes down, there is always something missing, there are specialized mechs that basically do everything better, even without the timber.

Found a 2xUAC5/2xLL support fire build to be the best variant. The nice armor still counts a bit on mid to long range. 2PPC/Gauß is also nice if you can concentrate fire on the right spots.

Edited by Averen, 14 June 2015 - 09:15 AM.

[Boulangerie]

Any input on which of the Heavy Chassis feels the most nimble? Which is the least responsive? I know this is somewhat dependent on engine size, so I suppose consider the average build for that chassis and rank which has best torso twist/accel/deccel and which is limited in twist range/speed etc.

I'm not opposed to a less responsive mech for a change of pace, as long as it makes up for it in superior firepower.

[Flak Kannon]

I'll go back to my post.

The Quickdraws get an undue BAD rap.

If you have any skill in using Jump Jets, then you can really clean up in a Quickdraw. I do really, really well in them. The major key point is to use the JumpJets to spread as much damage all over, including your back, as possible. So many games, I see so many mechs get center cored, all the while, their legs, arms and backs are largely untouched.

With my Quickdraw, I have the mobility to move up and down on any map. I am quick enough, no pun intended, to retreat, and can Jump Alpha when things bog down. Don't underestimate the value of being able to jump 3 times in 15 seconds and drop 120+ points of damage to a Dire on the other side of that rock, or ramp, or building.

I am not saying they are all powerful, they need ALOT of micromanaging to play well. They are directly proportional to the skill of the pilot, a great pilot in a Quickdraw can Crush. Remember.. you are a 65 ton mech.. alots of armor to use...

The only weapons I EVER put on my QD's are Medium Lasers, or Medium Pulse Lasers, and Short Range missles. LArge lasers are nice, ERLL are ok, LPL are just too heavy for the most part. I have one build with I think 3 ML, 1LPL and a couple SRM6s', but with the QuickDraw, you really.. really .... really want as much engine, and max Jump Jets in it. I ONLY run XL340's and XL325's in my QD's.


You may HATE them. Many do. I focused on what made them unique and capitilized on that asset. Speed and Jumping. With an average alpha around 35-45 it is not going to be a heavy hitter.. ever. But it will whittle you away given proper piloting, and I fear NO lights when Im in a 65 ton mech that can out jump them. 3 Alphas tend to outright kill, or scare off anything under 40 tons.

Boulangerie, on 16 June 2015 - 10:10 AM, said:

Any input on which of the Heavy Chassis feels the most nimble? Which is the least responsive? I know this is somewhat dependent on engine size, so I suppose consider the average build for that chassis and rank which has best torso twist/accel/deccel and which is limited in twist range/speed etc.

I'm not opposed to a less responsive mech for a change of pace, as long as it makes up for it in superior firepower.

Edited by Flak Kannon, 16 June 2015 - 03:00 PM.

[Piper Palala]

Boulangerie, on 16 June 2015 - 10:10 AM, said:

Any input on which of the Heavy Chassis feels the most nimble?

Unsurprisingly, the Dragon and Quickdraw I'd say win this out, being the lightest heavies with 360 max engine sizes. I personally run my primary Dragon with an XL340 and it's faster than the majority of my mediums at 101 kph. I tend to consider myself a Light Pilot, so my bias is towards light and nimble over thick and clunky in most mechs.

And again unsurprisingly, the least responsive prize will prob go to the heaviest heavy, Orion. Much like how I play my dragon as a big medium, you have to play orion as a little assault. Most Orions are allegic to XLs due to being a giant refrigerator block of a mech (there are exceptions though) and all that tonnage going into STDs is gonna hurt your arsenal. Someone earlier in the thread perfectly encapsulated the feeling I got from Orions: "There's always something missing"

Either theyre too slow, too light on guns for their role, or too easy to kill due to XL.

Dragons have a whole mess of problems on their own, but I make them work because they fit my playstyle: Nimble and speedy, good twist speed due to having a 340 engine to protect both my honkin nose and my easy to hide XL shoulders. But I've seen amazing Orion pilots too, they're probably just better suited to the assault role than i am.

[Boulangerie]

So I decided to go with the Jagermech, and picked up the Firebrand on sale! I also got some mechbays to get further Jagers with cbills.

I went with firepower mech, vs mobile skirmisher heavy as it will be a new experience for me.

First match i got 2 kills and one assist on Alpine peaks with stock Firebrand. Only did about 100 damage though so I was definitely lucky there. I had to drive the long way around the mountian and my lance was the furthest back, so I got there just in time to finish a couple people off.

Looking forward to leveling this chassis up, and thanks to all who gave me some input in the thread!

edit: oops, it wasn't quite stock, i downgraded the MPLs to MLs for 2 more tons of AC2 ammo. It seemed really light for some reason

Edited by Boulangerie, 21 June 2015 - 03:24 AM.

[bad arcade kitty]

drg-1n if you want to be a legal cheater and to do 1000 damage every other game