17 replies to this topic

[Rentier]

Russ Bullock wrote in http://mwomercs.com/...nejuly-roadmap/ :

"...
June 16^th
...
CW Map changes: ... All drop ships will now hover over the drop area 4 times longer than they use to providing cover to the 'mechs they drop off. Also all drop ships now carry the same 12 ERLL load out and have weapon quirks to shorten cooldown and laser duration. Oh and they will aim for the Center Torso only. ..."

Maybe this will shorten the spawn camping but it will make it sheer impossible for attackers to live to get to some O-Gens or stay by them to shoot it if dropships are used in a tactical eject
(12ER LL drop in the enemy assault for loss of a (maybe heavily damaged) light mech and denying the enemy the kill)
I see this tactic work on the following maps:
– Boreal Vault all OGens are reachable from dropships
– Sulfurous Rift all OGens are reachable from dropships
– Hellebore Springs - no problem
– Grim Portico to get to the ogens u need to borderline dropzones
– Emerald Taiga to get to the ogens u need to go through dropzones - no way around
– Vitric Forge only one OGen is near dropzone

so @PGI: How will u counter that tactics??

Thx in advance for any answer u can give

[Gas Guzzler]

I think he also said the defense drop points are going to be moved, areas are being added to the maps that are more secluded and out of the attack lane.

[Mcgral18]

Gas Guzzler, on 10 June 2015 - 02:16 PM, said:

I think he also said the defense drop points are going to be moved, areas are being added to the maps that are more secluded and out of the attack lane.

Now to see if they moved it far enough; 675M is pretty far.

They could have gone with LPLs if the range was too much.

[AlphaToaster]

PGI doesn't design for tactics, that is up to the players to figure out and give feedback on what needs to change.

I'm curious myself, because I remember when CW first released, lingering outside the gates was a death sentence because the drop ships would strafe the entire team as they dropped off defenders. So this change can't be to encourage more gate fighting. The erLL reach well into the base itself, so again fighting inside the defenders base and lingering in that space for any amount of time, lends the advantage to the defenders. Unless PGI changes the flight paths as well so the drop ships don't pass over the base but fly in over the out of bounds areas.

I'm wondering how the extra time on station will effect drop times. If they are staying there for 4 times as long, does that extend the spawn timer for those waiting for the drop ship to reset? Will we see multiple drop ships in the same area clipping into each other?

Hopefully the spawn area doesn't bottleneck too severely into the base. Otherwise spawn camping will change from shooting mechs as they spawn to shooting mechs as they leave their bottleneck. The spawn overlooks should have superior fighting positions over any forces camping the opening otherwise this whole thing is moot. It should be tactically unsound to camp that opening based on the terrain. At the same time the defenders should not be able to protect any o-gens or omega from the overlooks or there is no incentive for teams to leave it while on defense.

[Johnny Z]

Guessing that 4 times as long will be about 4 to 8 seconds.

[Gas Guzzler]

Mcgral18, on 10 June 2015 - 02:21 PM, said:

Now to see if they moved it far enough; 675M is pretty far.

They could have gone with LPLs if the range was too much.

The other option is to have the drop points in little alcoves, so there is cover between the drop area and the rest of the map.

[Deathlike]

Drops are going to likely be forced into Waves, which are already the most optimal course of action, and probably a bit more sniping than brawling at higher levels of play, due to the revamped dropship mechanics.

Still, spawn killing will still most likely occur once the dropships (and their timers) are gone (or ended).

[RustyBolts]

There is nowhere else to drop you off at On sulphuric rift other than the gens.

[Nightmare1]

AlphaToaster, on 10 June 2015 - 03:04 PM, said:

PGI doesn't design for tactics, that is up to the players to figure out and give feedback on what needs to change.

I'm curious myself, because I remember when CW first released, lingering outside the gates was a death sentence because the drop ships would strafe the entire team as they dropped off defenders. So this change can't be to encourage more gate fighting. The erLL reach well into the base itself, so again fighting inside the defenders base and lingering in that space for any amount of time, lends the advantage to the defenders. Unless PGI changes the flight paths as well so the drop ships don't pass over the base but fly in over the out of bounds areas.

I'm wondering how the extra time on station will effect drop times. If they are staying there for 4 times as long, does that extend the spawn timer for those waiting for the drop ship to reset? Will we see multiple drop ships in the same area clipping into each other?

Hopefully the spawn area doesn't bottleneck too severely into the base. Otherwise spawn camping will change from shooting mechs as they spawn to shooting mechs as they leave their bottleneck. The spawn overlooks should have superior fighting positions over any forces camping the opening otherwise this whole thing is moot. It should be tactically unsound to camp that opening based on the terrain. At the same time the defenders should not be able to protect any o-gens or omega from the overlooks or there is no incentive for teams to leave it while on defense.

If the Drop Ships clip each other, I want to see them spin out of control, crash, and burn.

This does all sound a bit overpowered for the defenders. I felt like CW was pretty well balanced between attack and defense already (assuming teams of equal skill). I would think that this puts things solidly in the defender's favor now.

[Widowmaker1981]

RustyBolts, on 10 June 2015 - 03:46 PM, said:

There is nowhere else to drop you off at On sulphuric rift other than the gens.

Its best to actually READ the post you are complaining about - note the bolded part:

CW Map changes: improvements to combat both spawn camping and light rushes. What we did was make sure each map had a dedicated Defender spawn area away from the map's objectives. In order to spawn camp attackers would need to specifically ignore map objectives and push into this new area. All drop ships will now hover over the drop area 4 times longer than they use to providing cover to the 'mechs they drop off. Also all drop ships now carry the same 12 ERLL load out and have weapon quirks to shorten cooldown and laser duration. Oh and they will aim for the Center Torso only. We have also placed a new protective shell on the O-Gen objects that have one opening that shows the exposed generator within, this exposed opening is positioned pointing into an open area exposed to the turrets and likely defender positions. The idea is that attacking units which are properly winning the engagement and push themselves into the enemies base may find the O-gens not much harder to destroy then they are currently. But large forces of fast moving light mechs will not be able to circle strafe and shoot the O-Gen from all angles at high speed while avoiding enemy fire. They will be forced to only be able to damage the O-Gen from reduced angles in exposes areas making it much more difficult to ignore enemy mech's.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 11 June 2015 - 06:29 AM.

[Rentier]

Widowmaker1981, on 11 June 2015 - 06:29 AM, said:

Its best to actually READ the post you are complaining about - note the bolded part:

CW Map changes: improvements to combat both spawn camping and light rushes. What we did was make sure each map had a dedicated Defender spawn area away from the map's objectives. In order to spawn camp attackers would need to specifically ignore map objectives and push into this new area. All drop ships will now hover over the drop area 4 times longer than they use to providing cover to the 'mechs they drop off. Also all drop ships now carry the same 12 ERLL load out and have weapon quirks to shorten cooldown and laser duration. Oh and they will aim for the Center Torso only. We have also placed a new protective shell on the O-Gen objects that have one opening that shows the exposed generator within, this exposed opening is positioned pointing into an open area exposed to the turrets and likely defender positions. The idea is that attacking units which are properly winning the engagement and push themselves into the enemies base may find the O-gens not much harder to destroy then they are currently. But large forces of fast moving light mechs will not be able to circle strafe and shoot the O-Gen from all angles at high speed while avoiding enemy fire. They will be forced to only be able to damage the O-Gen from reduced angles in exposes areas making it much more difficult to ignore enemy mech's.

this means a whole new map design for 4 maps and one minor one - i don't think they covered this - but let's see

Rentier, on 10 June 2015 - 02:14 PM, said:

– Boreal Vault all OGens are reachable from dropships
– Sulfurous Rift all OGens are reachable from dropships
– Hellebore Springs - no problem
– Grim Portico to get to the ogens u need to borderline dropzones
– Emerald Taiga to get to the ogens u need to go through dropzones - no way around
– Vitric Forge only one OGen is near dropzone

[Almond Brown]

Gas Guzzler, on 10 June 2015 - 03:14 PM, said:

The other option is to have the drop points in little alcoves, so there is cover between the drop area and the rest of the map.

Alcoves just create choke points all Mechs will have to go out through to get back in the fight... choke points are bad and easily camped from range...

[RustyBolts]

@Widowmaker, I READ the post. It is best to KNOW the current map layouts before speaking. On the rift they have two choices for a drop. Next to the gens or next to the gates.

If they want a drop off any where else they need to redo the map. Good luck on getting that done prior to the 16th

Edited by RustyBolts, 11 June 2015 - 11:18 AM.

[Zolaz]

Im sure that PGI has this well in hand. If you want the best indicator of future performance, look at past performance.

[Widowmaker1981]

RustyBolts, on 11 June 2015 - 10:50 AM, said:

@Widowmaker, I READ the post. It is best to KNOW the current map layouts before speaking. On the rift they have two choices for a drop. Next to the gens or next to the gates.

If they want a drop off any where else they need to redo the map. Good luck on getting that done prior to the 16th

How much time does it take to dig a hole in an existing map off to the side? And i agree, they absolutely do have to do that.

[RustyBolts]

How much time does it take to fix simple geometry issues with a mech? Evidently it takes PGI years.

[Anjian]

They definitely need to make map changes in my opinion. This game has been error and experience.

[Lord0fHats]

Gas Guzzler, on 10 June 2015 - 02:16 PM, said:

I think he also said the defense drop points are going to be moved, areas are being added to the maps that are more secluded and out of the attack lane.

This. Are people really thinking they're not gonna move the drop ships? Buffing them this much and leaving the drop zones where they are turns every game into an auto win for defenders

Expect every map to start looking more like Vitric Forge (for spawns). Of course, people who aren't stupid have realized you still get drop camped on Vitric Forge, and the drop ships don't even shoot at mechs not standing in the landing zone, so nothing is going to change except you'll get to take five steps and hide behind a wall before you get blow up