49 replies to this topic

[Eider]

To make this aging mech competitive would require some serious quirks. And you know all clammers would scream at the top of their lungs how op it would be if it even competed with a kitfox.

[Slow and Decrepit]

I still say that it got nerfed so the timber wouldn't have any competition....

[Coralld]

The Victor doesnt need a lot of quirks to make it viable, but the current quirks are just there to say it has them, and they are tiny at best.

Possible base line Victor Quirks.

-10% Ballistic Cool Down
-10% AC20 Cool Down
-15% SRM cool down
+12% Acceleration
+12% Deceleration
+15% Energy Range
+10 Internal Structure LL
+10 Internal Structure RL
+10 Internal Structure LT
+10 Internal Structure RT
+10 Internal Structure CT
+15 Armor LT
+15 Armor RT
+20 Armor CT

beleneagle, on 10 June 2015 - 07:58 PM, said:

I still say that it got nerfed so the timber wouldn't have any competition....

Please remove your tin foil hat. It, as well as the Highlander, were nerfed so hard because they were the Timber and Crow of their time as they were the meta mechs when poptarting was horrifically rampant. That, and when PPCs synergies-ed far to well with, at first, Gauss, then AC5s, and then AC10s. It was a combination of out of balance mechanics that made it, and the Highlanders, complete monsters.

Edited by Coralld, 10 June 2015 - 08:15 PM.

[Slow and Decrepit]

Victors ruled the sky even far better than most mediums. That shouldn't be a issue, just make it harder to tart. When Paul stopped the turning while in the air, that really hurt the Victors ability to spread damage. To all the people that are afraid of Victors coming back, I would say worry about the clan mechs that have twice the firepower!

Edited by beleneagle, 10 June 2015 - 08:05 PM.

[Coralld]

beleneagle, on 10 June 2015 - 08:04 PM, said:

Victors ruled the sky even far better than most mediums. That shouldn't be a issue, just make it harder to tart. When Paul stopped the turning while in the air, that really hurt the Victors ability to spread damage. To all the people that are afraid of Victors coming back, I would say worry about the clan mechs that have twice the firepower!

Most people agree that poptarting with Heavies and Assaults should be made harder, or at least less practical. For example, my self, Bishop, and many others agree that adding at least 0.50 sec to the JJ shake after you let go of your JJ key would solve most of the poptarting fears. Sadly though, there are also a lot of people who want the pastry popping of doom to return for (Insert what ever insane reason here).

Edited by Coralld, 10 June 2015 - 08:18 PM.

[Slow and Decrepit]

Coralld, on 10 June 2015 - 08:00 PM, said:

Please remove your tin foil hat. It, as well as the Highlander, were nerfed so hard because they were the Timber and Crow of their time as they were the meta mechs when poptarting was horrifically rampant. That, and when PPCs synergies-ed far to well with, at first, Gauss, then AC5s, and then AC10s. It was a combination of out of balance mechanics that made it, and the Highlanders, complete monsters.

Sorry I don't have one to wear, could I borrow yours? Yea I was there when all the pop tarting was going on. I never did it, but I would get airborne when I was brawling to spread damage. If one grew tired of a pop tarter, you handled them the same as a LRM boat. Most tarters back then had 35-40 pt alphas. Nothing like what we have now....

Edited by beleneagle, 10 June 2015 - 08:54 PM.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

I think changing the mechanics of JJs would make the Victor and Highlander a lot better.
Imagine if you could jump into combat, blast some heavy hits, and jump back into cover or get some distance

[Coralld]

beleneagle, on 10 June 2015 - 08:43 PM, said:

Sorry I don't have one to wear, could I borrow yours? Yea I was there when all the pop tarting was going on. I never did it, but I would get airborne when I was brawling to spread damage. If one grew tired of a pop tarter, you handled them the same as a LRM boat. Most tarters back then had 35-40 pt alphas. Nothing like what we have now....

Sad to say I do not own a tin foil hat, partly because the sound it makes when it tears is just horrible.

I'm not accusing you of poptarting and that you were claiming to all that your "Crazy good". However, there was a known exploit with JJ that only recently had been fixed to prevent the warping of hit boxes/detection while using JJ. One of the reasons why poptarters were more durable in the air than when they were on the ground. You were probably using this exploit, as well as my self and many others, with out actually realizing it or meaning to.
Also, poptarters, the way the weapon meta was back then, made it really easy to compete with brawling builds, even with only 30 PPFLD, which I already mentioned in my previous post. It was super accurate, and crazy effective. Even when SRMs had their hit reg fixed for example, they were still inferior to the poptarting meta because the poptarter would for sure get at least one or two good shots on you before you got close enough to use your brawling weapons. From that point on, the popper would continue to drill into that section of your mech till you were dead.

As for the larger alpha mechs, most of those are a combination of laser vomit and SRM splat builds, all of which can have their damage spread. Even back then, you had mechs with builds similar to what we have now with high alphas, and they were still inferior to the 30 point toaster strudel.

Edited by Coralld, 11 June 2015 - 05:43 AM.

[Jazzbandit1313]

I mean I don't know if you've all played a Victor recently, but they're not bad right now. With an AC20, 2 LPL and max engine you can fit comfortably, I do damn well in my 9S still.

And no, they should not be brought back to poptarting days level. Thats a dumb idea. We all whined about poptarting and I don't think it should come back. The only thing I could see the Victor needing, if I was being super whiny, is a bit of twist speed buff and/or accel/deccel perks. Other than that, leave it where it is I say.

Edited by Jazzbandit1313, 10 June 2015 - 09:15 PM.

[Coralld]

Jazzbandit1313, on 10 June 2015 - 09:13 PM, said:

I mean I don't know if you've all played a Victor recently, but they're not bad right now. With an AC20, 2 LPL and max engine you can fit comfortably, I do damn well in my 9S still.

I to enjoy runny my Victor 9S, AC20, 4 or 5 tons of ammo with 3x SRM4s with 3x tons of ammo, 3 JJ so I can get over small obstacles (and because of possibly PGI fixing them to be viable again) with a STD Engine who's size escapes me at this time but I know for a fact allows me to run at 75KPH Speed Tweaked. So more or less a heavier more mobile Cent.

[Jazzbandit1313]

Coralld, on 10 June 2015 - 09:20 PM, said:

I to enjoy runny my Victor 9S, AC20, 4 or 5 tons of ammo with 3x SRM4s with 3x tons of ammo, 3 JJ so I can get over small obstacles (and because of possibly PGI fixing them to be viable again) with a STD Engine who's size escapes me at this time but I know for a fact allows me to run at 75KPH Speed Tweaked. So more or less a heavier more mobile Cent.

I don't get why people are even bringing up poptarting lol. Victors are meant to fire lead, not tungsten and energy slugs. Let our glorious Victors sling AC/20 slugs in peace (kinda).

[Coralld]

Jazzbandit1313, on 10 June 2015 - 09:23 PM, said:

I don't get why people are even bringing up poptarting lol. Victors are meant to fire lead, not tungsten and energy slugs. Let our glorious Victors sling AC/20 slugs in peace (kinda).

The reason why people bring up poptarting with the Victor was because it was th-E mech to poptart in back in the day. Victors are suppose to be fast and mobile Assaults. Currently, they are fast, but with out their JJ's, mobile, they are not.

And yes, Victors are meant to punch people in the face with AC20s, which is why they need better ballistic and AC20 quirks.

Edited by Coralld, 10 June 2015 - 09:29 PM.

[Slow and Decrepit]

Coralld, on 10 June 2015 - 09:10 PM, said:

However, there was a known exploit with JJ that only recently had been fixed to prevent the warping of hit boxes/detection while using JJ. One of the reasons why poptarters were more durable in the air than when they were on the ground. You were probably using this exploit, as well as my self and many others, with out actually realizing it or meaning to.

Never even thought about that issue, good point.

[627]

I think it wouldn't need any quirks if they fix jump jets at last. Not for poptarting. Just let the mech catapult into the air. And while Airborne, make shots go everywhere like now, just not only when thrusting up but always.

Jumpsniping wouldn't be a problem because you can't hit sh!t on long distance but you could still fight in close combat. But the mobility would be the kicker, not only for this mech but for all Jumpers.

Living legends had it right imho with Jumpjets for mechs.

[XX Sulla XX]

Eider, on 10 June 2015 - 07:54 PM, said:

To make this aging mech competitive would require some serious quirks. And you know all clammers would scream at the top of their lungs how op it would be if it even competed with a kitfox.

From testing it would not have to be a huge amount. For non poptart it really needs two things. Stronger side torsos and weapons quirks since it has just a limited number of hard points. If it had Grasshopper level quirks it would be viable but not OP.

[Gas Guzzler]

XX Sulla XX, on 10 June 2015 - 11:41 PM, said:

From testing it would not have to be a huge amount. For non poptart it really needs two things. Stronger side torsos and weapons quirks since it has just a limited number of hard points. If it had Grasshopper level quirks it would be viable but not OP.

Yeah I would be pretty happy with the DS as is if it had some armor/structure quirks honestly.

[XX Sulla XX]

Coralld, on 10 June 2015 - 08:00 PM, said:

The Victor doesnt need a lot of quirks to make it viable, but the current quirks are just there to say it has them, and they are tiny at best.

Possible base line Victor Quirks.

-10% Ballistic Cool Down
-10% AC20 Cool Down
-15% SRM cool down
+12% Acceleration
+12% Deceleration
+15% Energy Range
+10 Internal Structure LL
+10 Internal Structure RL
+10 Internal Structure LT
+10 Internal Structure RT
+10 Internal Structure CT
+15 Armor LT
+15 Armor RT
+20 Armor CT

It needs energy heat generation quirks etc more. Most of the best non pop tart mid range builds for the K and Dragon Slayer would be 3 large pulse lasers as a base. Combined with an Gauss or AC10. Give you a nice range in the 400s. Something like that with decent quirks would be a nice mech for solo and group play without being OP.

Gas Guzzler, on 10 June 2015 - 11:43 PM, said:

Yeah I would be pretty happy with the DS as is if it had some armor/structure quirks honestly.

Exactly it is just to easy with the current fire power to shoot out the side torsos. And you really pretty much have to have an XL to have any chance of bringing enough fire power and speed.

[SgtMagor]

haven't used my DS since the nerfs, doesn't look like PGI will do anything to change that...

[LordBraxton]

Darth Bane001, on 10 June 2015 - 07:43 PM, said:

Basically the victor back then before nerf was how the tbr and scr were before nerf.

Deal with it.

LOLOLOLOLOLOOLOLLLOLOLLOLOLOLOL

[skorpionet]

I'm with you. Victor needs heat, armor and ACs quirks.