43 replies to this topic

[Wolf486]

Inherent flaw in the game when you have 120 armor on the CT and mechs with alpha strikes of 60+ that make slow targets a two shot kill for a faster mech. Any game that allows 12 direct fire weapons on one asset that can fire at the same time or in a quick one two punch is flawed. The game was designed with no consideration of past mistakes and a way to rectify them. Limiting the number of weapons per chassis and limiting the number of high damage weapons per chassis would have stopped most of the issue. PGI didn't want to alienate the people who exploit this and dump 6 PPC's on a chassis and didn't think about how ghost heat for 3 PPC's would screw the Awesome which was meant for such a load out.

Sadly this means GAME IS FLAWED

A mecha game that limits weapon counts to 3-6 per chassis would be much better for fun, competition, battles that ebb and flow, and over all satisfaction with the game. You'd have the ability to turn the tide in single combat or in a team battle.

Edited by Wolf486, 11 June 2015 - 10:12 AM.

[Tsuki Ookami vas Mugunghwa]

Wolf486, on 11 June 2015 - 09:31 AM, said:

A mecha game that limits weapon counts to 3-6 per chassis would be much better for fun, competition, battles that ebb and flow, and over all satisfaction with the game. You'd have the ability to turn the tide in single combat or in a team battle.

or, as has been suggested ever since the game went open beta, a sized/weighted hardpoint system could do that. it would make ghost heat obsolete which in turn would allow a reduction of quirks.

[Peter2k]

Nightmare1, on 11 June 2015 - 08:15 AM, said:

There's your problem right there. If you've got three MLs breaching your fresh armor and coloring your internals, then you don't have enough armor!

Try maxing out the values.

Frankly, I hear a lot of people complaining about being one-shotted but don't see it happening much.

I think quite some people have way too much rear armor and hence die too fast from the front

[Nightmare1]

Peter2k, on 11 June 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

I think quite some people have way too much rear armor and hence die too fast from the front

Possibly. There was only a single Mech, another CN9-YLW in fact, that I was able to one shot through his RRT. Of course, the YLW doesn't have much armor to begin with and the RRT has less than the RCT. This one ran an Excel too. That's the only time I can point to where I cored something (Mech or component) with one shot when it wasn't something that was already very fragile such as the arms on a Jenner or Locust.

[Revis Volek]

Wolf486, on 11 June 2015 - 09:31 AM, said:

Inherent flaw in the game when you have 120 armor and mechs with alpha strikes of 60+ that make slow targets a two shot kill for a faster mech. Any game that allows 12 direct fire weapons on one asset that can fire at the same time or in a quick one two punch is flawed. The game was designed with no consideration of past mistakes and a way to rectify them. Limiting the number of weapons per chassis and limiting the number of high damage weapons per chassis would have stopped most of the issue. PGI didn't want to alienate the people who exploit this and dump 6 PPC's on a chassis and didn't think about how ghost heat for 3 PPC's would screw the Awesome which was meant for such a load out.

Sadly this means GAME IS FLAWED

A mecha game that limits weapon counts to 3-6 per chassis would be much better for fun, competition, battles that ebb and flow, and over all satisfaction with the game. You'd have the ability to turn the tide in single combat or in a team battle.

No one wants vanilla warrior, sized hardpoints kills customization.

They dont want either of those...rolling back weapons dmg and quirks in and effort to balance clans is the way you do this while also raising TTK.

But PGI wont....It's not their idea.

[Nightmare1]

I see a lot of complaints about TTK, but I don't see TTK as a problem in the game.

In 1v1 or even 2v1 matches, it can take a while to kill someone. The only time that I see TTK as an issue is when there are 3 or more Mechs ripping into a single opponent. At that point though, it doesn't really matter what PGI does. Too much incoming fire from too many points of origin is still too much incoming fire from too many points of origin.

Best way to counter that is to stay with your team. Stay organized. Focus fire. This will increase your TTK while decreasing the enemy TTK.

We don't need nerfs; we need smarter players.

[Almond Brown]

Wolf486, on 11 June 2015 - 09:31 AM, said:

Inherent flaw in the game when you have 120 armor and mechs with alpha strikes of 60+ that make slow targets a two shot kill for a faster mech. Any game that allows 12 direct fire weapons on one asset that can fire at the same time or in a quick one two punch is flawed. The game was designed with no consideration of past mistakes and a way to rectify them. Limiting the number of weapons per chassis and limiting the number of high damage weapons per chassis would have stopped most of the issue. PGI didn't want to alienate the people who exploit this and dump 6 PPC's on a chassis and didn't think about how ghost heat for 3 PPC's would screw the Awesome which was meant for such a load out.

Sadly this means GAME IS FLAWED

A mecha game that limits weapon counts to 3-6 per chassis would be much better for fun, competition, battles that ebb and flow, and over all satisfaction with the game. You'd have the ability to turn the tide in single combat or in a team battle.

120 pts of armor on a slow mech? WTF! Most all Mechs in MWO that would be rated as "SLOW" have 120 in one section ffs (84 + IS). And what is a "FAST" (please define) as not one FAST Mech, as far as moat players would rate as "FAST" carries a 60+ pt alpha.

PGI did not create these Mechs we drive, they have replicated almost all of them pretty close to BT standards. Sure a few were given added stuff, but nothing that would warrant a BS statement like

Quote

Limiting the number of weapons per chassis and limiting the number of high damage weapons per chassis would have stopped most of the issue.

I cannot imagine an MWO with a Nova chassis that is not allowed a Stock 12 Energy slot setup or a possible 5 Ballistic slot DireWolf build just because some players can't seem to handle it and whine about flaws.

MWO may not be the top of the Thinking Mans just game yet, but it certainly is a Man's/Gals game. Either step up your play to that level or take your gaming back to your phone.

[FupDup]

If you feel armor doesn't do much for you, try some test-runs with a completely armorless mech. For bonus points, try to slog out at least 10 full matches with it.

[mogs01gt]

MWO is not a simulator, its more FPS like. Meaning you have multiple weapons converging onto one exact spot to cause damage.

[Nightmare1]

Almond Brown, on 11 June 2015 - 10:06 AM, said:

120 pts of armor on a slow mech? WTF! Most all Mechs in MWO that would be rated as "SLOW" have 120 in one section ffs (84 + IS). And what is a "FAST" (please define) as not one FAST Mech, as far as moat players would rate as "FAST" carries a 60+ pt alpha.

PGI did not create these Mechs we drive, they have replicated almost all of them pretty close to BT standards. Sure a few were given added stuff, but nothing that would warrant a BS statement like



I cannot imagine an MWO with a Nova chassis that is not allowed a Stock 12 Energy slot setup or a possible 5 Ballistic slot DireWolf build just because some players can't seem to handle it and whine about flaws.

MWO may not be the top of the Thinking Mans just game yet, but it certainly is a Man's/Gals game. Either step up your play to that level or take your gaming back to your phone.

Yep.

With regard to the Thinking Man billing, I would say that the lethality makes it even more of a thinking game. If you make a wrong move you pay for it; like chess. I know, for example, that I don't have the skills that a lot of players have in terms of reflexes and aim. I also don't have the fancy PCs or gaming equipment. I make up for it by out-thinking my adversaries. I maneuver them and myself like I would a chess opponent.

In this game, your mind is your greatest weapon. 12-0 rolls? That's because the other team was smarter than yours. If you can't even get one kill, it has nothing to do with you fighting skill, and everything to do with your ability to stay levelheaded and focused.

Here are two vids demonstrating this (50 secs each):




In that first video, I was the last Mech standing on my team. Rather than panic or try to run, I kept my head and continued to target the most vulnerable part of the enemy Blackjack. I was determined to take it with me. I've often watched pilots lose their cool here and start trying to spread/tank too much damage or run. There's nothing you can do except keep firing in this case. The clearer your mind is and sharper your focus, the better your chances of winning.



In the second video, I planned that tunnel rush (not the whole team's, just my part of it). Every move I made I had already decided upon before leaving the Stalker's corpse. I spread the damage and went through the movements perfectly while my team performed as I expected. This netted me two kills.

Those are far from being good matches for me, but they demonstrate the important concept that it's not necessarily what you drive so much as it is how you drive it. That BJ in the first vid should have killed me. He didn't because he couldn't keep his focus and I did. Competent pilots would have killed me in the second video. They didn't because I planned for their behavior based on how they had been fighting the entire match.

Despite claims to the contrary, this remains very much a thinking game. If you make a mistake, it costs you dearly. If you plan correctly, you can roll the enemy so hard and fast that it will make them scream, "Y'all quit!"

Lastly, if you note, the TTK in both those vids wasn't all that bad. The BJ and I went at it for a bit. The tunnel rush featured focus firing, so the enemies dropped faster, but even so, TTK wasn't really an issue.

[Mcgral18]

Stock Loki?

That's going to happen.

[Wolf486]

and there's your problem with MW. The fans who refuse to give up the weapons gluttony in favor of a better game over all. Every iteration of MW is doomed to repeat the same mistakes because of the trend started in the very beginning of having an open mech labs that allow boating and over the top high alpha damage loadouts. I get the allure of putting together an assault mech with an alpha of over 100 and I use to do the same stuff and then I realized the game just becomes one thing over and over with no end in sight. High Alpha + High Skill = lopsided game design with high turnover rate in player base as the new players get decimated. The evidence is in almost every drop you make in the game when your team is down or up 2-4 kills in a match then the match is almost always decided at that point. It's rare to turn around that kind of deficit because every mech puts out so much fire power that once a team has numbers they can concentrate it more and more as the other teams numbers drop.

[Moldur]

Well OP, armor is put onto your mech in order to allow it to survive more damage. Armor is primarily dependent upon tonnage of the mech. An assault mech for example will be able to equip more armor than a light mech. Armor is independent on each component of your mech. Your side and center torsos have a front and rear armor which take damage separately. Once armor on a component is completely gone, the inner structure of that component then takes damage. Once its health is gone, that component is destroyed along with all equipment in it. Also, equipment in an exposed component has a chance of getting destroyed through RNG "critical hits" which are dependent upon how many slots an item takes to equip (so Gauss and AC 20s have the biggest chance of getting destroyed.)

I hope this has helped you understand what the purpose of armor is in Mechwarrior Online. Happy Hunting! (Next time, post in New Player Help!)


edit: I'm being condescending.

Edited by Moldur, 11 June 2015 - 10:38 AM.

[PACoFist]

Denal Ryker, on 11 June 2015 - 06:51 AM, said:

That's fine and dandy if I've seen them shoot first, though. I'll take a hit, get rocked, look down at my damage and get audio confirmation of "right/left torso/arm critical damage".

You wrote you get rocked by the hit. If you mean your cockpit is shaking after the hit, you were not hit only by lasers. Lasers don´t shake your cockpit only ballistics and missiles do.

I suppose you were maybe hit by a Gauss sniper.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Denal Ryker, on 11 June 2015 - 06:28 AM, said:

Before I say anything more: yes, this is a rage post. Possibly profanity-laden.

Why do we even have armor now? In my Hellbringer, Orion; hell, even my assault mechs might as well be wet paper bags than eighty foot tall hulking war machines. A mech kitted with two or three medium lasers at just outside optimum range will zap straight through my armor and still have the punch to damage the piece underneath. Seriously, why should I bother? Three shots from a couple of lasers brings down the maxed-out front of my Hellbringer with absolutely no trouble.

While I'm on the topic of that, I can do the exact same thing and zap someone with four medium lasers, usually in the arm, inside optimum range, and I get a yellow, maybe a yellow-orange damage result. Is there some sort of secret I'm missing out on? A Dire Wolf can knock out my maxed-armor Atlas in the torso inside 15 seconds, but if the reversed situation occured I would barely scratch them.

And the ******* laser boats. They're everywhere. I'll go matches where I'm getting shot across the map by several mechs at once with large lasers, and if I'm in a slow mover, I'm screwed! The way it seems to stand for me right now, those large lasers, even medium lasers, act as if there's no armor to my 'Mech and just outright core me if I'm unlucky enough to not have cover.

I spent $80 on this game, and the majority of the time it's not fun because everyone sits back and laughs as they lance out with blue beams.

It's a situational awareness problem for you. you have to pay attention to all your readouts while playing. You have to take in everything on the screen, process that information, and react accordingly.

No, it's not easy, it's not simple, and it's not Pick up and Play. You have to LEARN this stuff.

I remember when I first picked up Steel Battalion on Xbox, which is considered one of the best Mech SIM'S on the planet. Fun fact, the instruction manual actually says you should have a drivers license to pilot a VT [vertical Tank]. MWO's not much different in the way you have to process the information coming to you.

Just keep learning man.

[Voivode]

Yes, game was much better with 8 v 8 matches. Granted, the weapon balancing was WAY worse in those days. I'd like to see what 8 v 8 is like with the weapon setup we have now. I'll bet matches would be quite a bit more intense and interesting with 8 fewer mechs on the field.

[FupDup]

Mcgral18, on 11 June 2015 - 10:36 AM, said:

Stock Loki?

That's going to happen.

That would explain his results...

[Nightmare1]

Wolf486, on 11 June 2015 - 10:36 AM, said:

and there's your problem with MW. The fans who refuse to give up the weapons gluttony in favor of a better game over all. Every iteration of MW is doomed to repeat the same mistakes because of the trend started in the very beginning of having an open mech labs that allow boating and over the top high alpha damage loadouts. I get the allure of putting together an assault mech with an alpha of over 100 and I use to do the same stuff and then I realized the game just becomes one thing over and over with no end in sight. High Alpha + High Skill = lopsided game design with high turnover rate in player base as the new players get decimated. The evidence is in almost every drop you make in the game when your team is down or up 2-4 kills in a match then the match is almost always decided at that point. It's rare to turn around that kind of deficit because every mech puts out so much fire power that once a team has numbers they can concentrate it more and more as the other teams numbers drop.

I disagree. The open Mechlab is one of the main reasons why I play the game; it's like BattleMech Legos! Taking that away removes a pillar of the game and one of its primary draws.

Also, being down 4 Mechs does not decide the match. I've seen comebacks from as many as 5 down (led one myself). The match is only over when you give up, not when you are at a numbers disadvantage.

[Revis Volek]

One thing i see the Op may be having issues with is that Gauss and Laser vomit builds hide the Gauss round and hit (kinda, unless you know what to look for)...all you see is the lasers. Same thing when i rock my 2xppc 1x a/c10 Firebrand....no one sees the AC round and wonder how im doing so much dmg with 2 ppc's.

Its got a nasty secret ballistic hiding in the furball of fire coming at ya!

So unless you saw the mech shooting at you and got target info and his loadout you are just guessing...Maybe it was 3 lasers maybe it was 6?

My Commando has a medium pulse and sm pulse in the same are and use the same lens even on the model so they come out the same spot and looks like im only shooting two medium pulses and the one if kinda brown.

I often double take when i see Yellow lasers come off spiders? Huh? Blue and green make yellow...duh.

[ScoutMaster]

I love laying low in my gargle then pop up and insta gib any mech with my 12 small pulse lasers.

I could understand someones frustration over dying like this, but other than that at normal engagement ranges you should'nt be dying that quick, learn to torso twist and maneuver.

Or play like me and kill the guy before he kills you ( Since TTK is so low amiwhite?)