58 replies to this topic

[King Chimera]

My Dragons are ready. Oh and have this.

This is the real reason for needing knockdown.

[Flawed]

Xiyumos, on 13 June 2015 - 09:17 AM, said:

My Dragons are ready. Oh and have this.

This is the real reason for needing knockdown.

you made soda come out my nose

[Khorender]

Since a lot of people want to cherry pick what they want to use from other BT and MW sources, ( I ) feel reactor explosions should be brought in when your engine is destroyed, from collisions etc. etc. etc.

{ walks away whistling Que Sera, Sera }

[King Chimera]

Khorender, on 13 June 2015 - 10:53 AM, said:

Since a lot of people want to cherry pick what they want to use from other BT and MW sources, ( I ) feel reactor explosions should be brought in when your engine is destroyed, from collisions etc. etc. etc.

{ walks away whistling Que Sera, Sera }

Do you mean like how the mechs exploded in Mw4 Mercs? One thing I'd like is the slowdown from massive heat.

[stevemac]

I want knock downs back because all those lelt light drivers cant face hug a 100 ton mech with out getting kicked across the map.

[Moldur]

Let's not forget the awesome scaling in this game that everyone complains about and how awesome it would make knockdown.

The only knockdown I could agree with, maybe, is assaults knocking down lights and that's it. All other combinations of weight class have no knockdown because it was already frustrating in CB when your practically-same-size mechs would fall over from elbow bumping something slightly heavier thus starting the ten hour Get Back Up animation.

Video of old Knockdown:

Edited by Moldur, 13 June 2015 - 11:51 AM.

[Soy]

Fup, according to your logic, knockdowns have been tried before in the game and didn't work well, so they took it out rather than fix it and they won't fix it cuz it's too hard, and they likely cannot come up with a balanced solution.

That's your own logic and position. Ok. So...

By your logic spawn points in CW are flawed, so... what... should they just scrap CW and not try it again?

That's using your own logic. Like what, are you gonna argue ganking a player the moment he drops out of a ship is intent of design? Or that it's balanced 'cuz it happens to both sides'? (which would happen with knockdowns)

Also, you keep suggesting knockdowns would make the game into a rugby wrestling orgy. Stop the hyperbole, stop it. Bad dog.

Edited by Soy, 13 June 2015 - 12:03 PM.

[King Chimera]

Soy, on 13 June 2015 - 12:01 PM, said:

Fup, according to your logic, knockdowns have been tried before in the game and didn't work well, so they took it out rather than fix it and they won't fix it cuz it's too hard, and they likely cannot come up with a balanced solution.

That's your own logic and position. Ok. So...

By your logic spawn points in CW are flawed, so... what... should they just scrap CW and not try it again?

That's using your own logic. Like what, are you gonna argue ganking a player the moment he drops out of a ship is intent of design? Or that it's balanced 'cuz it happens to both sides'? (which would happen with knockdowns)

Also, you keep suggesting knockdowns would make the game into a rugby wrestling orgy. Stop the hyperbole, stop it. Bad dog.

Pretty much anyway that they implement it, mechs that are fast for their weightclass like the Dragon or Gargoyle would probably have better knockdown.

Also, they could put it back in with a different system. Make it so that Dragons are still really good with knockdown but maybe not so dumb as dragon bowling.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Xiyumos, on 13 June 2015 - 12:17 PM, said:

Pretty much anyway that they implement it, mechs that are fast for their weightclass like the Dragon or Gargoyle would probably have better knockdown.

Also, they could put it back in with a different system. Make it so that Dragons are still really good with knockdown but maybe not so dumb as dragon bowling.

The Dragon in TT is known for being hard TO knockdown, not for it's ability to DO knockdowns, and it's actually a very melee oriented Mech in TT, just not really big enough to be knocking other Mechs down a lot. Dragon bowling was a screwup, not an intended result by any means, and once someone at PGI got mauled by it, they realized how badly they'd screwed up and took it out(that video STILL cracks me up, honestly surprised he didn't ban people outright on the spot and you KNOW he wanted to!).

Mechs don't actually knock each other flat all that often in TT, it's a damage based thing with collisions and melee, 20 damage in a single turn required to check for a knockdown. Going by damage isn't good, already said that, due to how many Mechs we have that do alphas of that repeatedly, NOT a TT standard! So we use good old fashioned physics, the game engine already has that built in, it just needs to be adjusted for the 3.6g setting, which after thinking on it, could actually make it better for the Lights than 1g would, that extra mass will give them lesser chance of being knocked down AND gives them a better chance of taking down larger Mechs if they apply the force right, ie : use JJs to hit them in the upper torso at full speed instead of ramming the legs/lower body. Jenner hits the legs of an Atlas, the Jenner falls down and that's all. Jenner gets airborn at full speed and hits the Atlas in the upper body, BOTH go down.

[Boris The Spider]

stevemac, on 13 June 2015 - 11:44 AM, said:

I want knock downs back because all those lelt light drivers cant face hug a 100 ton mech with out getting kicked across the map.

I think assaults should get the ability to knock down lights and stomp on them, when lights get the ability to kick an assault mech in the head and LOL as it rolls down a mountain side destroying itself with its own weight.

[A Man In A Can]

Soy, on 12 June 2015 - 03:23 PM, said:

How about in MechCommander, using Jump Jets might just arbitrarily lead to your mech falling over and stunlocking itself for about 10 seconds.

Add that as the counterbalance to increased thrust jets and I'd dig that as a partial solution.

[topgun505]

This game is in no shape to handle even collisions, much less knockdowns. Until they can fix up the physics, knockdowns should be on the bottom of the To Do list.

[Fleeb the Mad]

Uh, I think with knockdowns in, friendly mechs would experience them more than enemy mechs.

People crashing into each other is vastly more common amongst a gaggle of friendly mechs. People think piloting a light is hard now.

[Khan Warlock Kell]

Ahhh fond days of yore when dragon bowling was fun... Personally I don't see mechs falling over as the issue back then. Yes it happened and it was often a death sentence the issue was I think was more the rubber banding caused by the collisions. Bringing back collisions and knockdowns would force people to be more aware of their surroundings and mech movement then they are now. right now people bunch up and bump each other all the time, collisions would force them to think. and as a side benefit it would stop what should be lights running around assaults and heavys without fear of falling over if they ram one of the mechs.

If the rubber banding can be fixed from collisions and be implemented in a sensible way im all for bringing it back. As for standing up after a knockdown, you could go with something like 2 seconds for a light, 2.5 medium, 3 for a heavy, 3.5 for an assuault. If said mech has arms they get a .5 second bonus to stand time.

[Rushmoar]

Praetor Knight, on 12 June 2015 - 03:46 PM, said:

The devs first need to work on collision code before tackling knockdowns.

The rubber banding needs to go away asap. The knockdown needs never to come back. If you want the light que to be 0% from here on out then bring it back. We have lights that won't break 107 kph now in game.

We have 12 v 12 now not 8 on 8. Also clan tech that hits harder and gives us higher alphas. The second a light hits the deck it will be out of the fight period.

[stevemac]

Fleeb the Mad, on 13 June 2015 - 06:18 PM, said:

Uh, I think with knockdowns in, friendly mechs would experience them more than enemy mechs.

People crashing into each other is vastly more common amongst a gaggle of friendly mechs. People think piloting a light is hard now.

How many people remember ok lights move out first

[Khan Warlock Kell]

Then lights need to remember to play smart and play like lights, not mini assault mechs

[Averen]

I wouldn't mind getting rid of the stupid 'light blocks 100tons' nonsense.

And btw, lights really aren't hard.

[Rhent]

Its pretty easy to implement. You have to factor in:

#1. Piloting skills of the pilots. Make it possible where a Dragon charging full tilt at a hunchback could screw his roll and fall down and the hunchback would get free shots on the dragon.
#2. Momentum of the mechs involved in a collision. Moment = Mass * Velocity.
#3. Mechanism to prevent perma lock down (you can say this isn't realistic, however no game allows perma crowd control and this is what collisions are)
#4. Mechs with lower actuators get up quicker than mechs without lower actuators

All of these are common sense points, but it depends on if PGI has people who can actually understand and develop a working ruleset. PGI has artists, not game mechanic developers. So good luck.