106 replies to this topic

[Kotzi]

The least amount to kill a mech. Better put the sum of that for a match of course.

[michaelius]

Jman5, on 12 June 2015 - 02:39 PM, said:

Average Damage for a Winning Player by Weight Class

• Lights: 196

• Mediums: 312

• Heavies: 333

• Assaults: 383

Thank You for calculating this data - I was wondering about it recently.

[Eboli]

Hmmm,

Never really liked the idea that the more damage you do per match means more effectiveness. To be honest I don't know whether there is a formula that can really be devised that can give a really suitable result.

Anyhow, thought I would have a go myself. My stats below show a number that I though may show effectiveness better. My formula is:

Total Damage ÷ Number of Matches ÷ Number of Kills.

In this case the lower the number the better.

99.5% PUGGING

Simple understanding :the closer your average kill damage is to your average damage per match the better. If you are below 1 that means you have killed more mechs than the number of games you have played for that mech variant.

Don't know whether this is useful. People can feel free to criticise as I really don't mind as I am just trying to come up with an interesting formula.

My top 10 mechs seems to be the mechs I like to play - apart from Sparky.

Cheers!
Eboli

My surprise in the stats below is that I hate Sparky and have a fairly useless k/d ratio for the Raven 3L as I was playing narcer and tagger role in that mech.

Edited by Eboli, 13 June 2015 - 02:25 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mcgral18, on 12 June 2015 - 02:59 PM, said:

Looks like rather low numbers.

I guess average does that, doesn't it. You prefer to forget the bad games.
What happens when you remove the sub 200 scores from the data?


If I'm in a light, I'd take 300 damage with disappointment, but certain that I at least did something. For anything that's not a Locust or Commando, at least.

If I do less than 600 in the WubShee, I'm very disappointed.


But, even that can be a bad measure. In a game with everyone more or less competent, not one of 12 people broke 400 damage, but our team only had one player under 200, everyone else was between 200 and 400 damage, spread pretty evenly.

Generally, you don't get that. Normally it's a couple players carrying the rest.

The face of 1st world problems!

[C E Dwyer]

ManDaisy, on 12 June 2015 - 04:14 PM, said:

well damage and kills go hand in hand. 1200 damage with 1 kill is horrible. 1200 damage with 4-5 kills is more like it. The most average kill to damage ratio is 4-kill 800 damage.

Untrue, 1200 damage and only 1 kill just means a light was hiding behind your arse, taking the kill shot, and is not a sideways swipe at Lurm boats at all

[YokiLin]

Mech_______________Matches Played_________Average dmg / match


Oxide ( for scout )_______13,209___________________ 356 dmg

Dire Wolf______________422_____________________ 504 dmg
Timber Wolf____________1,082___________________ 534 dmg
Summoner_____________1,575___________________ 502 dmg
Hellbringer _____________664_____________________ 403 dmg
Nova ( SPL )___________ 1,657____________________408 dmg
Stormcrow(srm boat)_____129_____________________ 532 dmg
Ice Ferret ( SPL )________113_____________________ 366 dmg


King Crab Kgc-000______ 106____________________ 416 dmg
Highlander Hgn-733_____ 310____________________ 451 dmg
Dragon Drg-1n_________ 126____________________ 477 dmg

Shadow Hawk Shd-2d2___ 544____________________ 463 dmg
Griffin Grf-2n___________ 44_____________________465 dmg

Edited by YokiLin, 13 June 2015 - 03:46 AM.

[TWIAFU]

Don't understand why, in a TEAM game, why people on concentrating on the SOLO score, the worse way to determine effectiveness in a team environment.

TEAM SCORE should determine effectiveness. It is the combined score of all factors.

Damage is important. Would be more important if this was all just a big furball with no teams, deathmatch, Solaris type settings.

You will earn more and score higher by working with your team then if you are off just worrying about damage.

[Richard Hazen]

I did 1k damage in a game the other day and still lost.

Edited by Deimos Alpha, 13 June 2015 - 04:15 AM.

[LordNothing]

i dont really think damage is a good yardstick for skill.

sure you can shotgun damage all over an enemy and get your damage in, usually with lerms, srms, lbs, or poorly placed laser shots (slicers i call em) and get a lot more damage in than an individual who can aim. but then again this leaves a lot of mechs in the game. mechs that if allowed to live, no matter how beat up, it can still do damage to your team. you know how many times ive seen 10 beat up mechs who are each a couple hits from death group up and slaughter the handfull of mechs still on your team. scores say everyone pulled their weight but its a loss none the less because people were really good at damage and not very good at kills.

then on the other side you have those players who place their shots well so that they can properly neutralize the other side's mechs. sometimes you get a light behind a whale or an atlas tears through the 12 or so points of armor there to get to the creamy center inside. or the guy who can headshot anything at 500 meters. or even a kill stealer out hunting for those damaged mechs so they can nudge them into the scrapheap.

im not going to say kills is a good yardstick either, its probibly on even more shakey ground than damage. you could just be the lucky sob who fires at the enemy totally unaware of its damage and it goes down. i know today that happened to be about 4 times today. and there are always those in the wrong place at the wrong time moments when a scout ends up in the middle of an entire lance of mechs with high alphas, gets legged and carved.

[Bishop Steiner]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 12 June 2015 - 10:11 PM, said:

Well sometimes you can't get the kill shot, but sometimes you can take another component away from them like a leg or maybe an arm that has something important in it.

Then there's functionally killing something, like ripping the right arm off a WVR-6K which is often easier than outright killing the mech or blowing out the left torso of a laser vomit Hellbringer. Its what I like about MWO over standard FPS shooters, sometimes the more tactically sound decision is ripping off an open component to critically wound an opponent than hitting the CT that may not outright kill the enemy.

very true. Kills are nice, but ending their effectiveness as a threat is my first goal in a HBK-4G, and I feel it's pretty uniquely equipped for that role. On a Light, I always focus on the legs first, unless they are going in a straight line or stupidly stop....then I CT/H shot em. An Assault I juggle which side to take first, because if I focus solely on CT, he has enough firepower to kill me no matter how much I twist, in most cases. But most people run lopsided builds, so I can usually take 2/3 or more of their firepower. As tough as these new Zeus are for instance, 90% of people run Sword and board left side... I only need split second to land an ac20 there. And especially with these laserrangers, they need to stare, I don't, so it's the patience game.

Clan Mechs can be tougher simply because some, like MDDs or TBRs pack more than enough firepower in one side to still ruin your day. So those I usually go CT or Leg (giving me the mobility edge to deal with them). Really situational, depending on the opponent, the amount of help they have with them, even the map.

But I still consider 150 a kill about the right avg in a HBK-4G.

Deimos Alpha, on 13 June 2015 - 04:07 AM, said:

I did 1k damage in a game the other day and still lost.

I've killed half the enemy team, and relatively early in the match, only to watch the remaining 10 people on my team lose it still, by playing Hide and Peek.

One of the few times I went on a full rant in chat. 10 on 6, with 3-4 of the remaining enemy showing significant damage, and they lost.

Unbelievable.

[T0rmented]

YueFei, on 12 June 2015 - 08:14 PM, said:

You can't multiply CT health by 3.
To be precise:
124 CT armor, 62 internal.
84 ST armor, 42 internal plus 11 quirk

CT is 186.
ST is 137. x2 is 274.
274 plus 186 is 460.
that assumes zero back armor.

Like I said, about 400.

I was not arbitrarily multiplying CT health by 3, I was tired when i read the post above mine and I read it as 3 atlas (not 3 atlas torso).
The point i was making still stands however, killing 3 atlas via CT is still going to be minimum of 486 damage assuming all shots go centre and those atlas are all running more back armour than I ever would.

[Zookeeper Dan]

OP, thanks for putting this together.

Using your stats, it looks like winning teams do 3657 total damage, where losing teams do about 2/3 as much, 2469.5.

I think you may be on to something about mediums being the key to games. Generally the team that can take out 2-3 mechs first will snowball to a victory and mediums as a group have the lowest TTK. They aren't protected by the speed of lights or the armor of heavy and assault mechs.

[LowSubmarino]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 June 2015 - 06:04 PM, said:

Here's the thing.... I have found...that most people when HONEST about averaging their own damage...are seldom the Damage Gods they claim to be. Heck, I think I have one chassis that is holding above 500 avg dmg.  

Funny thing is my Lights are all predictably low averages (hey, I suck at Lights) But my avg damage between my good Medium Chassis and Heavies and Assaults, really has minimal difference.

My top avg damage mechs, with at least 25 matches
(that 500 damage actually has less than 25 matches, so nope, doesn't count!)
Assaults:
-ZEU-6S (65 matches) 427 avg dmg
-BNC- 3E (27 matches) 418 avg dmg
-BNC-LM (37 matches) 391 avg dmg
Heavies:
-TDR-5S (30 matches) 435 avg dmg
-ON1-VA (76 matches) 431 avg dmg
-CTF-IM (64 matches) 390 avg dmg
-JM6-DD (68 matches) 390 avg dmg
Mediums:
-HBK-4J (77 matches) 444 avg dmg
-CN9-D (57 matches) 411 avg dmg
-HBK-4G (262 matches) 399 avg dmg
Lights:
-UM-R60 (44 matches) 262 avg dmg

So my highest avg comes from a Medium,but because it's a LRMboat.  Yet it sits with a 2.34 KDr and 1.17 W/L while my 4G which scores significantly lower damage (45 pts on avg) sits with a 2.86 KDr and 1.54 W/L... because LRMs generate more damage, but are inefficient killers. Honestly, if I have to spend more than 150 damage to kill you in a 4G, I'm doing something wrong.

But I found it interesting how little difference I have in avg damage with mechs between 50 and 100 tons.

But while I am certainly no Pro (though I'll happily face off against any other 4G pilot)...most people's actual averages have not been massively higher (and it's funny how often I drop with the 1337s and how often their scores.....were not wow worthy).  We all have those awesome high scoring matches, but tend to forget how many times we turned around a corner and got dual gaussed to the face, game over, etc.  And too many people eppen keeps them from being honest on forums which is funny... people are worried about what a bunch of strangers think.

Of course 97 % of the guys worry very much about what everybody thinks.Why do you think every guy stares at gorgeous girls but only a tiny fraction approaches them hehe.Naturally, that fear is present. Even in an mwo forum.It is definitely funny. But it's not surprising. Ppl believe very strongly that they must maintain a reputation.This is how i make my money.

[Bishop Steiner]

Danth Reduviid, on 13 June 2015 - 05:13 AM, said:

OP, thanks for putting this together.

Using your stats, it looks like winning teams do 3657 total damage, where losing teams do about 2/3 as much, 2469.5.

I think you may be on to something about mediums being the key to games. Generally the team that can take out 2-3 mechs first will snowball to a victory and mediums as a group have the lowest TTK. They aren't protected by the speed of lights or the armor of heavy and assault mechs.

That's because elite Medium Mech Pilots are usually the best actual pilots in the game.

[Water Bear]

Huh. Now I'm curious. I'll post numbers for some of my favorite mechs and see what I get.

AWS-8Q: 416
Pretty Baby: 434
TBT-7M: 435
BJ-1: 329
JM6-DD: 526
WVR-6K: 521 (304 matches played, but most before nerfing)
BNC-3E: 582
King Cool: 406
ZEU-9S: 478

Most of my mechs are below these numbers, eye balling it a lot are 300-400.

[Saliddry]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 12 June 2015 - 03:56 PM, said:

So it takes on average 306 damage to kill a mech. So if everyone deals around 300 to 400 damage then your team did well. If you have a guy deal 0 damage, then the team needs to deal an extra 30 each.

so many dumb idiot teams around with people not even reaching 150-200 damage

[KodiakGW]

Have to agree. 200 damage is the watermark to me for the minimum viable contribution. More like 300 for assaults and heavies.

Kills mean nothing. I've had rounds where I see someone with sub 200 damage and 3 kills...in an assault. What were they doing? Yep, hiding and kill stealing.

I'm sorry, but if you are taking an assault or heavy and constantly do less than 100 damage, you need to do one thing....

STOP TAKING ASSAULTS OR HEAVIES

Get better in mediums before tonning up. Getting tired of seeing that every round when I solo PUG (usually leveling a mech before taking it into group PUG).

Edit: I'm going to have to add, if you have disconnect issues..ALSO DO NOT TAKE ASSAULTS OR HEAVIES.

Edited by KodiakGW, 13 June 2015 - 07:30 AM.

[Sir Wulfrick]

Jman5, on 12 June 2015 - 02:39 PM, said:

...Statistics...

* Ok I said average, but technically I calculated median. It's basically the same thing except median is better if you want to cut through outliers on the high or low end.

That's actually very interesting. I would have suggested, as an assault driver, perhaps 500 damage for a group / PuG drop and 1500 for a CW match. Very interesting.

As a matter of personal interest, would you mind outlining how you carried out the median calculation?

Thanks for that thoughtful post though - this is the sort of post this forum needs more of.

[Mavairo]

I feel like a scrub if I score less than 350, in my heavies. Win OR lose.

[sneeking]

Anyone can post a big damage game but its meaningless.

Just as meaningless is a high kill count.

Either one can be achieved without having a good match.

When damage kills locks spots and assists are all in balance then you have had a good game.