37 replies to this topic

[guy0320]

With the movement of O-gens to within 200 meters of Omega, CW has now been reduced to a glorified team deathmatch. The O-gen casing was a decent change, but the relocation of the O-gens means that there is only one way to win an attack, kill 48 mechs.

Gone are the days where distracting the enemy with an assault lance would allow for a lance of mediums with ecm cover to reach and destroy an O-gen. Gone are the smoke and mirror tactics that could allow a weaker team to beat a stronger team if they could out-think and out-maneuver them. We now enter the dark days where the only viable tactics are deathballing and focusing fire.

Gone are the days when commanders played a greater role than yelling push now. Gone are the days when the positioning of scouts determine the course of a battle. We now enter the dark days where mechs pointlessly charge at a line of entrenched defenders at an and die one by one.

Gone are the days of lance tactics. Today we enter into the dark days of the unending deathball.

[Tywren]

I've played in matches where my side has both won by, and lost to Omega destruction. If anything i've see a small uptake in Omega destruction victories due to the fact that it's now harder to completely wipe out team members.

Instead i now see teams fort up in their drop zone and have peek & poke fights out of the exits. Any attempt to drive into the drop zone ends with attackers getting gunned down. Same thing happens when the defenders try to push out the exit. So both sides peek, and trade shots until the last few minutes, at which time the attackers break off to take out the cannon. This usually leaves a weak point where the defenders will finally push out, and try to keep the attackers distracted long enough for the clock to run out.

[guy0320]

The problem that I am upset with is the fact that all the objectives are in the same place which means that all that happens is the defense balling up near omega and the attackers throwing mechs at the defensive line. They might as well just get rid of the O-gens and quadruple the health of Omega. Strategic use of tactics is dead. This is great for those who just want to shoot other mechs in arena combat with respawns. This is terrible for people who want to play a thinking-man's game where flanking, counter-flanking, and feinting can actually make a difference.

[Mystere]

It's all being done in the name of ... drum roll please ...

eSports

<and to cater to all the Cod and "Rock 'em, Sock 'em" robot types>

Edited by Mystere, 20 June 2015 - 05:08 PM.

[Kin3ticX]

Gen rushing was getting abused.

[Mystere]

Kin3ticX, on 20 June 2015 - 05:28 PM, said:

Gen rushing was getting abused.

Abused, or were the people crying just incapable of countering them -- especially after others already learned how to counter them a mere few days after they started?

Edited by Mystere, 20 June 2015 - 06:16 PM.

[Kin3ticX]

Mystere, on 20 June 2015 - 06:15 PM, said:

Abused, or were the people crying just incapable of countering them -- especially after others already learned how to counter them a mere few days after they started?

Pretty sure when you have 12-mans gen rushing randos its called abuse

[guy0320]

As long as you scouted and kept your forces within running distance of the gens, light rushes were fairly easy to fight off.

[Mystere]

Kin3ticX, on 20 June 2015 - 06:47 PM, said:

Pretty sure when you have 12-mans gen rushing randos its called abuse

Crack 12-man vs. 12 clueless randoms always ends in defeat for the latter, no matter what game mode.

[Davegt27]

new rules bring new tactics just need to play more

[Weztside]

The problem isn't that simple. It's not just the Gen placement that's caused the tactics to be watered down to a numbers game. The biggest of all is that objectives are incredibly boring an unsatisfying to capture or destroy. They aren't dynamic. They are always in the same spot every single game and they never vary. Whenever I win a game by destroying Omega I feel cheated out of a good fight and a fun time. People want to shoot mechs not shoot at stationary targets through little windows that are always in the same place surrounded by poorly programmed AI turrets while being pestered by drop ships that core them through the CT on poorly designed maps that are not only a hassle to navigate but look like they could be played on an Xbox 360. Compared to that racking up kills while ignoring the insignificant objectives is so much more fun, satisfying, and rewarding. If the developers can't make fun objectives you have to make your own.

[DivineEvil]

The problem itself were the fact, that some of those Gens could be even destroyed without actually enetering the turret-protected zone. Recent changes has fixed that issue ultimately, and rightfully so.

Now you just need to consider two elements of tactics - you need to distract the enemy, so that Light Lance could get to the Gens unhindered, and you also have to consider to drive a strong push in order to reduce turrets, so that that Light Lance could do what they're supposed to.

[Weztside]

You could always just kill the entire enemy team first and accomplish the objective afterwards. You then earn more cbills, xp, and gxp that way. Not to mentions it's also more fun and more challenging. As long as it's possible to win on kills players will choose that option over blowing omega. Especially since winning on kills is more rewarding in every way. If you want more complex tactics the objectives actually have to be more engaging than they are now. Otherwise, team death match.

[Davegt27]

We did one change to tactics by sending a lance to distract the snipers that where on the high ground
behind Omega

The rest went for the gens

I can list 4 or 5 other tactics if you like

Edited by Davegt27, 20 June 2015 - 07:59 PM.

[Saint Atlas and the Commando Elf]

guy0320, on 20 June 2015 - 03:58 PM, said:

Gone are the days...

Dude, your account is barely 7 weeks old! Plus, you liked your own post.

[guy0320]

Sthtopokeon, on 21 June 2015 - 01:45 AM, said:

Dude, your account is barely 7 weeks old! Plus, you liked your own post.

Should a post be judged by the age of the account that posted it or by the content that resides within it?

[guy0320]

Weztside, on 20 June 2015 - 07:51 PM, said:

You could always just kill the entire enemy team first and accomplish the objective afterwards. You then earn more cbills, xp, and gxp that way. Not to mentions it's also more fun and more challenging. As long as it's possible to win on kills players will choose that option over blowing omega. Especially since winning on kills is more rewarding in every way. If you want more complex tactics the objectives actually have to be more engaging than they are now. Otherwise, team death match.

Any goober on the street with decent reflexes, good hand-eye coordination, some practice, and the willingness to focus-fire with his team can kill an enemy mech. If I wanted almost mindless killing, I would be playing pubs. I would like a little more actual warfare in my community warfare.

[TWIAFU]

Kin3ticX, on 20 June 2015 - 06:47 PM, said:

Pretty sure when you have 12-mans gen rushing randos its called abuse

Link the statement by PGI confirming your abuse statement. Can't? I knew it did not exist when I asked, it's ok.

But it is not abuse for PUG to do it to PUG? Or 12 man vs 12man?

Or are we just using 12mans as the boogie man for a bunch of people that have the power and tools to face them and win but choose not to use them, just complain and bring on these "wonderful" changes and start to complain again when recent changes are overcome.

Edited by TWIAFU, 21 June 2015 - 04:00 AM.

[Saint Atlas and the Commando Elf]

guy0320, on 21 June 2015 - 03:49 AM, said:

Should a post be judged by the age of the account that posted it or by the content that resides within it?

Of course not and that is not what I meant. You are just writing as if you are having a year long history of MWO which seems odd given the age of your account. But nevermind, maybe it's just my age that lets me think of 7 weeks as a ridiculously short period of time.

However, liking your own post does devaluate its content. Ah okay, he changed that.

Edited by Sthtopokeon, 21 June 2015 - 07:01 AM.

[Weztside]

guy0320, on 21 June 2015 - 03:56 AM, said:

Any goober on the street with decent reflexes, good hand-eye coordination, some practice, and the willingness to focus-fire with his team can kill an enemy mech. If I wanted almost mindless killing, I would be playing pubs. I would like a little more actual warfare in my community warfare.

I totally understand that want because I want it too. The only problem is you need better and more interesting objectives than what we have now in order for those kinds of tactics to emerge. Even if they do emerge flat out wrecking the enemy team is the best response to any so called tactic I've seen. Playing for kills often times is the most practical and simple tactic to play. In their current state playing the objectives is just as mindless as killing the enemy team. The entire game has been watered down to a twitch shooter level via PGI's lack of creativity.