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Help Me Use The Gauss Rifle

Gauss

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#41 Boulangerie

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Posted 08 September 2015 - 10:23 AM

I have been using Gauss since the Hero sales earlier this year. I picked up the Grid Iron and Firebrand (later got other Jagers to go along with it).

At first I was very ineffective. The Grid Iron is rapid fire Gauss with some MPL for backup (and with the quirks they are pretty good). The cooldown quirks made it so that I could fire much more quickly, but I didn't seem to do a lot of damage. This made me think that I wasn't being effective at all when actually it was the opposite. After some practice, I realized that my damage would always be slightly lower with the Gauss, but I could use that damage exactly how I wanted. I started taking a BAP on the GI, and using the quicker target info to specifically pop components and destroy limbs. If you can keep hitting the CT with a Gauss, the damage will be much less than if you are running a Laser or SRM machine, but your Kills will start to become higher. I had my first 4 kill game in the solo queue in the Grid Iron.

When I started playing the Jagers, I did a bunch of different builds. I tried out the Dual Gauss, with 2 ML as a backup since I still sucked and never got through all my ammo. I started seeing the potential. I was blowing through peoples damaged parts. I was destroying weapons and legs left and right. I got my first Headshot.

I'm not an expert by any means yet, but the more I play with them (currently on my Jager -A with the big range boost) the more comfortable I feel. It feels a lot slower to fire than my Grid Iron, because it is, but I do get two shots off at a time. Now I run with just one back up ML, and I'm getting closer to being able to use up all my ammo before I die or the match ends. Here's the moment I decided I loved this setup, and it was just the other day (I don't have the time to sink lots of matches a week, but this was still my 20th-30th dual gauss match):

I was playing on the new Forest Colony and my team started on the Mining side on Assault. Stayed with the team and we pushed into the middle area near all the boxes. I spotted a Jenner trying to flank us in the woods and got a shot off heavily damaging his leg (probably only hit with one round?) He ran away taking LRM fire and I didn't take the bait (you are NOT a brawling mech in this setup). I moved forward with my team when we discovered the enemy was taking the Trench route and the Jenner was their forward scout. Spent a couple of minutes popping up and down that little hill and taking potshots through the leaves. Got one or two kills and 3 assists. Starting to become the late game and they are down to 5-6 mechs so I slide to the right heading back to the middle and their base. Around the rock wall comes Direwolf, guns blazing. I start charging instantly and know I'm going down but slip into zen state.
I only have one shot, so line it up!
Double Gauss fires, both slugs slam into the Dire's cockpit and he goes down spitting sparks and smoke.

That's what a Dual Gauss setup can do. I only did 30ish damage to that Dire (his cockpit may have been damaged before I hit him, but his torso armor was still Yellow) and took out their strongest mech left.

Edited by Boulangerie, 08 September 2015 - 10:25 AM.


#42 IraqiWalker

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Posted 08 September 2015 - 10:34 AM

View PostBoulangerie, on 08 September 2015 - 10:23 AM, said:

Nice post


This posts illustrates the most important thing about using a sniper weapon: Efficiency. If you're using your Goosewaffles right, you're dealing about 100 damage per kill. Meaning you will rarely score high damage numbers, because you're not spraying your damage across 8 sections, the ground, and the sky. It's going right where you need it to go.

#43 Khereg

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 01:39 PM

View PostE n e r g Y, on 08 September 2015 - 06:34 AM, said:

*gauss master enters the room*

Ahermm.....

Yes. The gauss. You want to learn to shoot it eh? some quick tips to make this quick and short, baby:

(a bunch of solid advice - especially on the weapon group bindings and firing technique)



I was ready to post a bunch of stuff, but then read E n e r g Y's post.

Do all of that. Seriously. Especially the stuff in 1).

Once it becomes natural, you will be a force to be reckoned with on the battlefield. While you're learning, my advice would be to stay with only 2 weapon groups, which also implies only 2 weapon types. It's a key reason the Gauss + X ERML's is the standard clan build on so many clan mechs (G + 4 ERML SCR and HBR, G + 5 ERML TBR or EBJ, etc.).

Edited to add: Another reason these builds are so widespread is they also balance very well the lightweight, but high damage and high heat ERML's with the heavy, but cool running and pinpoint efficiency of the Gauss. Get good at keeping the ERML beam on the spot the gauss rounds land and you'll find yourslef drilling through armor like a blowtorch.

Edited by Khereg, 14 September 2015 - 02:06 PM.


#44 Storky

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 11:13 PM

Alright gausmasters, have a question for ya. How many players using full 18 armor on cockpit nowedays?
Good chance to aim for the head if there are 16- armor, otherwise shoot gonna be wasted.

#45 Mazzyplz

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 11:36 PM

the way you play gauss is you shoot and then after you let go you fire all the lasers into the target. since laser are hitscan and gauss takes like half a second or a whole second to hit it's target, the laser will get to their ct at the same time as the gauss.

brawling with gauss is an oxymoron; don't pair gauss with medlas or lpl, pair it with large lasers if you want to use it well.
from one side of the volcano to the other in terra therma you can own with just 2 large lasers and a gauss.

it seems like that build from metamechs has the idea of poking from afar until you just switch to pulses up close;

i do not like the build. but i guess some could make it work

#46 The Great Unwashed

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 11:49 PM

View PostStorky, on 16 September 2015 - 11:13 PM, said:

Alright gausmasters, have a question for ya. How many players using full 18 armor on cockpit nowedays?
Good chance to aim for the head if there are 16- armor, otherwise shoot gonna be wasted.


Actually, Gauss rifles have a good chance to do critical damage and all critical damage rolls back 15% of the critical damage to the section you hit. In other words, critical hits do 15% more damage. That is 34.5 pts for two Gauss rifles and that means any mech can be killed in one shot, no matter how much armor you carry. Note that critical damage is applied when the armor after a hit reaches 0 (getting 10 damage on 10 armor points means critical damage can occur. That does not seem fair to me but that is how it works. I'd prefer that all damage after armor destruction counts as critical damage... ).

Without a TC you have a 42% chance of critical damage per weapon, or 17.6% that both do critical damage.That is one in six shots, without a TC. So, you can still take off a few points because it does not protect you fully, but it does not mean you should not aim for the cockpit.

Edited by The Great Unwashed, 16 September 2015 - 11:58 PM.


#47 Storky

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 02:07 AM

View PostMazzyplz, on 16 September 2015 - 11:36 PM, said:

...

Forgot to say, that my subject is 2*Gauss Jager with 20% range quirk, no lasers there, but 30 pinpoint alfa.

View PostThe Great Unwashed, on 16 September 2015 - 11:49 PM, said:

Actually, Gauss rifles have a good chance to do critical damage and all critical damage rolls back 15% of the critical damage to the section you hit. In other words, critical hits do 15% more damage. That is 34.5 pts for two Gauss rifles and that means any mech can be killed in one shot, no matter how much armor you carry. Note that critical damage is applied when the armor after a hit reaches 0 (getting 10 damage on 10 armor points means critical damage can occur. That does not seem fair to me but that is how it works. I'd prefer that all damage after armor destruction counts as critical damage... ). Without a TC you have a 42% chance of critical damage per weapon, or 17.6% that both do critical damage.That is one in six shots, without a TC. So, you can still take off a few points because it does not protect you fully, but it does not mean you should not aim for the cockpit.

Cool, I really forgot about critical damage! But there goes second question:
Critical damage works only at shooting structure.
For example some component has 1armor and I hitting it with gauss slug, so 14dmg goes for structure after 1armor. Is this 14dmg able to do the critical hit?

#48 Mazzyplz

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 02:23 AM

View PostStorky, on 17 September 2015 - 02:07 AM, said:

Forgot to say, that my subject is 2*Gauss Jager with 20% range quirk, no lasers there, but 30 pinpoint alfa.


Cool, I really forgot about critical damage! But there goes second question:
Critical damage works only at shooting structure.
For example some component has 1armor and I hitting it with gauss slug, so 14dmg goes for structure after 1armor. Is this 14dmg able to do the critical hit?


no not responding to your comment i was talking about OP> the first comment of the thread; he says he is playin gauss with 2 large pulse and 3 mediums.
or that is the build they recommended to him;

my guess is that they are kind of expecting him to use the gauss from outside of range to poke 5 or 6 shots, then do 1 or 2 more when closing in and switch to ermed+clpl once none of the enemies have full armor

but this build can be improved by just either going for CERLL + gauss, or dropping the gauss and just pulsing i think

edit: oh now i get it, he is going just one gauss and one c.Largepulse and 3 ermed; but still - why is he using these omnipods again? seems like my suggestions still apply.

is this really the most optimized build?

Edited by Mazzyplz, 17 September 2015 - 02:27 AM.


#49 The Great Unwashed

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 03:17 AM

View PostStorky, on 17 September 2015 - 02:07 AM, said:

For example some component has 1 armor and I hitting it with gauss slug, so 14dmg goes for structure after 1armor. Is this 14dmg able to do the critical hit?


Critical damage is always equal to the base damage of the weapon and is applied when you hit the internals.

http://mwomercs.com/...67#entry3053467

So, even if you have 15 armor and you hit it with 15 damage (gauss slug, so pinpoint weapons only) then you have a chance to do the full 15 critical damage. Many components have only 10 internal health and can be destroyed by that hit (The IS AC20 has 18 health, Gauss rifles 5).

So, if you need to choose between the AC10 and the LBX10, the LBX10 does great internal damage as it has a modifier, but it spreads out critical damage---as lasers do---but only the AC10 can destroy a component (up to three) in one shot and it can do so at its maximum range when the LBX doesn't even end up in the same component.

For brawling range the LBX10 is nice: it is lighter and cooler. Otherwise the AC10 is a better choice but people end up with lots of AC5s anyway.

Edited by The Great Unwashed, 17 September 2015 - 03:29 AM.


#50 Khereg

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 05:50 AM

View PostStorky, on 16 September 2015 - 11:13 PM, said:

Alright gausmasters, have a question for ya. How many players using full 18 armor on cockpit nowedays?
Good chance to aim for the head if there are 16- armor, otherwise shoot gonna be wasted.


We advise all our pilots to carry at least 16 armor in the head in everything but lights for just the reason you mention (crit chance is low enough that you just chalk that up to bad luck if it happens). In lights, you may see less, but if you headshot a light...well, he deserved it.

#51 Storky

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 10:51 PM

The Great Unwashed

Correct me if I'm wrong:
If 1x crit happens, 15% of damage adding to structure, 2.25dmg for gauss rifle slug. Its enought to do 32.25dmg to oneshoot cockpit, x2 and x3 crits deal even more damage.
2 gauss slugs hiting target always in different time, then 1st gauss slug just hiting 15 of armor without any crit chance.
2nd slug hits 3 armor and 12 structure, 42% chance of providing 15dmg to modules and add 2.25+ dmg.

42% to oneshoot cockpit with dual gauss.
In testing grounds on HPG I oneshooted 2 mechs of 10, means mistake somewhere above.
Khereg

Sometimes using extrapowerfull assault builds with 20 armor on arms, 30 on legs, 75% on side torsos and 5 on head. Was punished only for the head and increased it to 16.

#52 The Great Unwashed

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Posted 17 September 2015 - 11:46 PM

As I understand it, the double hit is registered by the game and after the hit the armor is below zero. At this time critical damage by both weapons may occur and the changes of both happening should be taken into account. So now it's basic statistics:
  • the chances of a double critical hit is 0.42*0.42=0.1764
  • the changes of no critical hits (1-0.42)*(1-0.42)=0.3364
  • the changes of a single critical hit are 1-0.1764-.3364 = 0. 4872 (or 2*0.42*(1-0.42))
So, without the TC you should head shoot about every 6th mech in the game (1/0.1764=5.66) and you do additional damage 50% of the time you hit an unarmored section. I'm not exactly sure how to take targeting computer modifiers are taken into account, if you need to add the bonus or multiply... but in any case, they increase the crit chances and add critical damage to lasers meaning that once the armor is gone you do additional damage and you kill your target faster.

I do not get head shot very often but it occasionally happens and it's (nearly?) always a twin gauss mech... and sometimes the head is severely damaged and that means the enemy just wasted a shot. As Khereg mentioned, keep your armor count at 16 if you want to survive a regular twin gauss hit to the cockpit but realize that happens only in 1 out of 3 hits and the other 2 will kill you as a single critical hit (32.25 dmg) will already require the full 18 points of cockpit armor to survive. Your changes increase to 82.36% for all hits with 18 points. So either go for all, or go for very little and take your chances.

Edited by The Great Unwashed, 18 September 2015 - 12:46 AM.


#53 Petard

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Posted 18 September 2015 - 01:04 AM

Practice, practice, practice. :ph34r:

Go in the training grounds and practice headshots while you are standing still. When you can hit the head every time on every mech, start running and trying to do headshots while on the move, also worth practicing targeting other components. Once you feel that you are becoming competent at this, put a gauss on something with jumpjets, and practice running at speed and jumping at various angles to the targets, and charging and firing your gauss while jumping.

Gets as boring as hell after a while, but it's well worth the time invested. You will thank me when you dual gauss that annoying ACH to death while he tries to circle jerk you. Good luck, and good hunting.

#54 Petard

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Posted 18 September 2015 - 01:16 AM

View PostSaxie, on 07 September 2015 - 06:41 AM, said:

I wouldn't recommend selling them...

Currently sitting over 70% on accuracy and I've done a heap amount of damage... 15 damage no heat, once you learn to use it, it will kick so much butt.


Showoff, I'm only at 67 percent. :(

#55 Storky

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Posted 18 September 2015 - 04:56 AM

Lol , I found that full cockpit hp is 33, thought its just 32, damn that's why 32.25 not works))

Significant questions is to BELIEVE or NOT in double hit. (when server calculates it like one 30dmg shoot)

Case 1 - we DO believe
There is a 37% to smash 33hp with at least one x2x3 crit or double x1.
0.25*0.25+ (1-(1-0.17)*(1-0.17)).
JavaScript backup:
for(var i = 0,ga1=0,ga2=0,H=0; i<=100000; i++){
ga1 = Math.random();
ga2 = Math.random();
if((ga1<=0.42 && ga2<=0.42) || (ga1<=0.17 || ga2<=0.17)) {H++};
}
alert(H/100000);


Case 2 - NOT believe. Server may count different length, or just use arrays.
Simply First Gauss hit armor, and 17% for the x2x3 crit of the Second.


The Great Unwashed
Great match skills, I failed yesterday digging probabilities in the web and used loops in JS.

#56 The Great Unwashed

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Posted 18 September 2015 - 01:39 PM

View PostStorky, on 18 September 2015 - 04:56 AM, said:

The Great Unwashed
Great match skills, I failed yesterday digging probabilities in the web and used loops in JS.


I think something is lost in translation! I do not quite understand what you mean ;)

#57 John McHobo

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Posted 18 September 2015 - 04:20 PM

Quote

The Gauss seems to deal pathetic damage. 2 alphas into the CT of an atlas using a brawler build is enough to kill it. In real time, its almost 5 seconds of shooting to kill anything. I counted the number of alphas, using the gauss build and it took me 4.5 alphas just to core it. This translates into about 30 sec. of shooting IF,I can hit CT. I understand its 15 dmg, but its really slow to cooldown, not to mention charge.

Is no one bothered by the fact that a 100ton assault mech (and a known brawler) is 2 Alphas away from destruction if he encounters a 25tons lighter heavy mech!?

Apart from that a fun fact about the Gauss that I did not yet see posted here: Gauss maximum Range is triple, not double the basic range, so shooting something at 1000m distance is still worth the ammo.

#58 Boulangerie

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 02:27 AM

View PostJohn McHobo, on 18 September 2015 - 04:20 PM, said:

Is no one bothered by the fact that a 100ton assault mech (and a known brawler) is 2 Alphas away from destruction if he encounters a 25tons lighter heavy mech!?

Apart from that a fun fact about the Gauss that I did not yet see posted here: Gauss maximum Range is triple, not double the basic range, so shooting something at 1000m distance is still worth the ammo.


Yes, it's a result of the super convergence. High damage on a pinpoint location for no real penalty for firing everything you got a going to high heat each time. In contrast, my Atlas is going to return fire with 20-30 right where I want it, and 36-48 damage spread mostly over the middle of their mech and the hill behind them.

#59 Lightfoot

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 09:27 AM

View PostDomoneky, on 15 June 2015 - 10:34 PM, said:

Want to use the Gauss? Don't Equip it.


Priceless.

The only time MWO's apocryphal Gauss is effective is when players don't know you have it or have not spotted you. Once they do the defense of making slashing attacks from cover usually counters the Gauss due to the charge-up aiming problems compounded by incoming weapon damage knocking the aim off. Usually the damage even from 2xGauss is light and spread to different sections. In my opinion any other weapon is better since most battles are face-offs or end that way.

For Clan mechs it might have more value since the ACs are all streamed bursts and the LBX don't crit any better but still do poor armor damage as if they had higher crit chance.

#60 Boulangerie

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 02:58 AM

View PostLightfoot, on 26 October 2015 - 09:27 AM, said:


Priceless.

The only time MWO's apocryphal Gauss is effective is when players don't know you have it or have not spotted you. Once they do the defense of making slashing attacks from cover usually counters the Gauss due to the charge-up aiming problems compounded by incoming weapon damage knocking the aim off. Usually the damage even from 2xGauss is light and spread to different sections. In my opinion any other weapon is better since most battles are face-offs or end that way.

For Clan mechs it might have more value since the ACs are all streamed bursts and the LBX don't crit any better but still do poor armor damage as if they had higher crit chance.


I agree with you that it's difficult to use in a 1v1 matchup if your opponent has a hit and run capable loadout and mech, I don't think that is enough to say the weapon system isn't worth taking.

Incoming weapon damage doesn't move your targeting reticle, only makes your screen shake. Your shots aren't affected by screen shake at all.

As far as your damage being light and spread over a whole mech, I would suggest take your time and line up your shots to hit the same component. It is very powerful at drilling a hole into a specific spot, or taking advantage of exposed internals. This is actually a true Critical hit weapon (like the IS AC10 and AC20) in that if you score a Crit, it is taking a piece of equipment out of that section. Your damage is light in the beginning because your shots deal 15-30. You really have to take advantage of the fact that it is point and click damage wherever you want, and at crazy ranges.

IMO it is a bit underwhelming when equipping just one IS gauss (unless you are bringing the Grid Iron), but once you have two of them rocking, it is great! If using a single Gauss, you are taking a chance having it in your ST, so you had better make the most of it.





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