46 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 16 June 2015 - 04:20 AM, said:

Im sure theres some way to abuse masc.

When has PGI ever released something new that wasnt abused? lol.

ECM, new LRM trajectory, ghost heat, etc...

You act like PGI is alone in this happening Khob. They aren't. Not by a long shot.

[Koniving]

Khobai, on 15 June 2015 - 05:53 PM, said:

An experiment for tomorrow...

What would happen if you pulsed MASC on for .49 seconds then turned it off then pulsed it back on for .49 seconds? Could you indefinitely avoid taking damage because MASC is never on for .5 seconds?

I seriously hope PGI put some kindve delay on MASC to prevent abusing it by pulsing it on/off.

This is one of the first things I thought of when I saw how it's intended to work.

Scout Derek, on 15 June 2015 - 05:55 PM, said:

Um, yeah, it hits 100 you can't use it and will take damage if it reaches it, also don't think that it will have any advantages for pulsing it...

Flamers... Pulsing flamers will produce a removal of ALL penalties that flamers incur upon the player. To date this is one of the reasons they won't touch or try to rebalance flamers.

(This is the only reason that the Flamer Stalker is even viable let alone extremely effective. Set two flamers or pairs of flamers in their own groups and set chain fire. Fire without ever gaining heat or incurring "heat retention.")

High score. Tylerchu was here and can verify it.


Jumpjets, pulsing jumpjets due to lack of a delay mechanic will cause a rapid Z-flutter-like effect, rendering mechs that still have the 'offending animation' calls to rapidly be on the ground and in the air according to the server-side perspective to be invincible or massively spread damage.

Edited by Koniving, 16 June 2015 - 04:57 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

You act like PGI is alone in this happening Khob. They aren't. Not by a long shot.

The only other games I play are farmville and hello kitty island adventure and theyre both perfectly balanced.

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 16 June 2015 - 04:45 AM, said:

The only other games I play are farmville and hello kitty island adventure and theyre both perfectly balanced.

That entire statement is a lie. And funny as well.

[EvilCow]

Pulsing MASC could really affect HSR, I hope they did their homework.

[Gyrok]

Khobai, on 16 June 2015 - 04:20 AM, said:

Im sure theres some way to abuse masc.

When has PGI ever released something new that wasnt abused? lol.

ECM, new LRM trajectory, ghost heat, etc...

Sure...there will be lots of easily legged mechs running around...

[Bishop Steiner]

Joseph Mallan, on 16 June 2015 - 03:54 AM, said:

so ride 74% and you never have to worry? Not how MASC is meant to be.

have you paid attention to the other details?

The MASC gauge stacks at 10% a second, and cools down at a mere 2% per second. And while MASC is engaged you have reticle shake that also has a short cooldown after you disengage. So not only is it not actually possible to "cruise around" continuously at 74% but you aren't hitting the broadside of a barn if you did.

About the only thing they did, was remove the (stupid) chance of MASC locking up immediately on use. But since as you like to live in a TT world, each turn is 10 seconds, being able to run MASC for only 7.5 seconds before certain damage?

Koniving, on 16 June 2015 - 04:45 AM, said:

This is one of the first things I thought of when I saw how it's intended to work.


Flamers... Pulsing flamers will produce a removal of ALL penalties that flamers incur upon the player. To date this is one of the reasons they won't touch or try to rebalance flamers.

(This is the only reason that the Flamer Stalker is even viable let alone extremely effective. Set two flamers or pairs of flamers in their own groups and set chain fire. Fire without ever gaining heat or incurring "heat retention.")

High score. Tylerchu was here and can verify it.


Jumpjets, pulsing jumpjets due to lack of a delay mechanic will cause a rapid Z-flutter-like effect, rendering mechs that still have the 'offending animation' calls to rapidly be on the ground and in the air according to the server-side perspective to be invincible or massively spread damage.

Yes Kon, except I already have shown why barring a major fubar, that wont be so here. But just in case, and because I believe in being proactive, have tweeted Russ.

The concern being that after one takes the "initial immediate" damage, one could then pulse the MASC indefinitely while over threshold because of the .5 second damage rules, correct? So if MASC doesn't automatically cause new "immediate" damage when reengaged while over 75%, one could in theory, pulse for .4 seconds, let off, etc?

Just making sure I have the "concern" straight?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 16 June 2015 - 05:46 AM.

[Nightmare1]

Khobai, on 15 June 2015 - 05:59 PM, said:

Read the patch notes though. MASC only does damage every .5 seconds. And if MASC is off it does no damage to you regardless of where the gauge sits.

So if you pulse MASC on for .49 seconds using a macro, you could theoretically avoid the damage, by having it on for less than the .5 seconds required to suffer damage.

Unless PGI coded a delay on MASC so you cant turn it on again immediately after its been turned off.

Its something that should be tested thoroughly tomorrow.



So just have a macro that turns off MASC a fraction of a second before you fire.

Trust me if you can use it nonstop it will be abused.

Oy, Macros...MechWarrior Training Wheels those!

[DONTOR]

I hope they didnt prevent something like that, sounds really fun. Besides using MASC for 7 seconds, then havng it cooldown for 35 seconds is BS!

[Roadkill]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 June 2015 - 06:03 PM, said:

the moment you cross the threshold you still take damage. You would have to keep it under .75 no matter how much you pulse it, or you take that damage.

But only that first pulse of damage, which really isn't that significant.

After that it's supposed to do damage every 0.5 seconds, but pulsing may allow you to run the gauge all the way to 100% without taking any further damage.

[Widowmaker1981]

Joseph Mallan, on 16 June 2015 - 03:54 AM, said:

so ride 74% and you never have to worry? Not how MASC is meant to be.

If what you want is TT rules where you have a random chance of immobilising yourself permanently ANY time you use MASC, that would be utterly terrible and the forums would explode in rage. Justifiably, because it would be useless. RNG is bad for this type of game, really. TT is based on RNG so there are problems being too literal.

[odiemoncrew]

now this is funny. wonder how many people will use MASC and leg themselfs today

[Roadkill]

odiemoncrew, on 16 June 2015 - 10:12 AM, said:

now this is funny. wonder how many people will use MASC and leg themselfs today

Especially since there's a toggle key that you can map, too. That just seems like a really bad idea to me.

[Almond Brown]

Scout Derek, on 15 June 2015 - 09:31 PM, said:

Dude, "MascTarting" ^TM is a thing now. Just started today actually. LOL!

[Almond Brown]

Joseph Mallan, on 16 June 2015 - 03:54 AM, said:

so ride 74% and you never have to worry? Not how MASC is meant to be.

Nigh impossible to maintain 74% when the Bar fills 5X faster than it drains. Thus to hold the button, for even 1s, once near 74%, would mean releasing it for > 5s to drain down allow for a 1s hold threshold to get back to <75% over and over.

What real benefit would any 1s burn be? Hard to fight very well when all you can watch the whole time to prevent Leg damage is the GD MASC Bar...

[1453 R]

Okay, okay, okay, folks. Settle thine jimmies.

What's likely happening is that M.A.S.C. damage is in 'tics' of 0.5s, much akin to a laser firing in 0.1s tics rather than a server-killing analog continuous damage stream. Every 0.5s,, if the system is over 75% it'll take a bite out of your legs. HOWEVER... every other tic-based weapon/system in the game (machine guns, lasers, flamers, AMS, etc.) also deals its first tic of whatever immediately upon engaging. AMS, the closest comparable system, doesn't wait until the end of its first time period to do its thing, it does its thing instantly upon engaging, and then continues at its given tic rate.

So what you'd likely get by fluttering M.A.S.C. for 0.49s is...actually faster leg damage than just leaving the system on, as you would be incurring that initial instantaneous tic of leg damage more often than if you just let the system do its thing.

Short Version: don't macro M.A.S.C., bro. It's bad for the feeties.

[Greenjulius]

I just want to chime in here... it looks like you can indeed pulse MASC to get a near infinite speed boost. Not the full top speed, but it seems easy to get a few extra kph at all times, even without a macro.

I'm sure someone will figure out a macro to get it running a permanent few kph higher. The accel/decel boosts will be interesting as well.

Edit: Climbing high slopes is much easier with pulsed MASC as well.

I'm expecting this to get patched out within the week.

Edited by Greenjulius, 16 June 2015 - 10:57 AM.

[Koniving]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 June 2015 - 05:36 AM, said:

Yes Kon, except I already have shown why barring a major fubar, that wont be so here. But just in case, and because I believe in being proactive, have tweeted Russ.

The concern being that after one takes the "initial immediate" damage, one could then pulse the MASC indefinitely while over threshold because of the .5 second damage rules, correct? So if MASC doesn't automatically cause new "immediate" damage when reengaged while over 75%, one could in theory, pulse for .4 seconds, let off, etc?

Just making sure I have the "concern" straight?

Seems like the right sort of concern. The initial concern that like the flamer's 'stacking' heat (or as Paul straight up called it "heat retention") or the jumpjet fluttering/throttling, that MASC could be similar abused. Considering the little details I originally saw between the initial patch notes and video introducing MASC... there wasn't anything to dissuade that fear.

You've provided quite a bit more information. Either someone truly thought this one through (unlike many past balance and design decisions) or somebody somewhere learned something. Someone at PGI is getting a pat on the back.

[Dino Might]

After using MASC on the Executioner, I think they need to get lower the acceleration bonus or change the damage threshhold. It's basically the best reason for using it and a bit too good in my opinion. You can accelerate like a light and get out of dodge in a hurry, with no ill effects - you jump to maybe 30% before you're out of danger if anywhere near cover. More testing will be needed, but my first impression is that on an assault, MASC = can I have this on all my mechs?

[Bishop Steiner]

Dino Might, on 16 June 2015 - 01:20 PM, said:

After using MASC on the Executioner, I think they need to get lower the acceleration bonus or change the damage threshhold. It's basically the best reason for using it and a bit too good in my opinion. You can accelerate like a light and get out of dodge in a hurry, with no ill effects - you jump to maybe 30% before you're out of danger if anywhere near cover. More testing will be needed, but my first impression is that on an assault, MASC = can I have this on all my mechs?

only if all of them also are forced to carry the firepower of a mech two weight classes lower.