77 replies to this topic

[DONTOR]

All I have to say is L2MASC, IF you L2MASC you will immediatly see that it can do things no other mech its size could ever dream of. Its agility is truly amazing when you get ahold of it.

[Khobai]

Quote

I'd agree, except the other 95 tonner we have is quite a bit more agile than a Direwolf. One model uses a Std335 and the other bounces between a Std350, XL380, and XL400 depending on my mood that day.

um the executioner is more agile than the banshee. so whats your point exactly?

are you saying that the executioner should be more agile than it currently is because its already the most agile 95 tonner?

because thats the worst argument ever...

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Khobai, on 17 June 2015 - 12:13 PM, said:

um the executioner is more agile than the banshee. so whats your point exactly?

are you saying that the executioner should be more agile than it currently is because its already the most agile 95 tonner?

because thats the worst argument ever...

Er... no...

Banshee: 108 degrees
Sexecutioner: 84 degrees

Banshee's max armor payload w/STD350 and 16 DHS: 29 tons
Banshee's max armor payload w/STD335 and 16 DHS: 33 tons
Banshee's max armor payload w/XL380 and 16 DHS: 38 tons
Sexy's max armor payload: 24.75 tons

In order to out maneuver the Banshee by the hair on a gnat's ass it has to dedicate 12 tons to fixed equipment. Eight of those tons don't work. The other four are great.

[Khobai]

Quote

Er... no...

Banshee: 108 degrees
Sexecutioner: 84 degrees

Banshee's max armor payload w/STD350 and 16 DHS: 29 tons
Banshee's max armor payload w/STD335 and 16 DHS: 33 tons
Banshee's max armor payload w/XL380 and 16 DHS: 38 tons
Sexy's max armor payload: 24.75 tons

In order to out maneuver the Banshee by the hair on a
gnat's ass it has to dedicate 12 tons to fixed equipment. Eight of those tons don't work. The other four are great.

Um yes. Executioner is far more agile than the Banshee because of MASC/JJs. Also XL in a Banshee is suicide, youre literally cutting your survivability in half, because its obvious when a Banshee has an XL and you can just blow out its side torso. So you have to factor that in as well.

And the Executioner actually jumps pretty okay. I wouldnt call its jumpjets useless. It can jump up the walls in canyon without much trouble, which is generally the benchmark for jumpjets being useful.

Executioner is by far the most agile 95 tonner. It doesnt need to be anymore agile than it already is.

Edited by Khobai, 17 June 2015 - 01:14 PM.

[Yosharian]

95 ton hoverjet mech is useless?

*******, what a surprise

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 17 June 2015 - 01:08 PM, said:

Um yes. Executioner is far more agile than the Banshee because of MASC/JJs. Also XL in a Banshee is suicide, youre literally cutting your survivability in half, because its obvious when a Banshee has an XL and you can just blow out its side torso. So you have to factor that in as well.

And the Executioner actually jumps pretty okay. I wouldnt call its jumpjets useless. It can jump up the walls in canyon without much trouble, which is generally the benchmark for jumpjets being useful.

Executioner is by far the most agile 95 tonner. It doesnt need to be anymore agile than it already is.

You don't HoverJet very often do you? I almost NEVER use them because taking off and landing bogs the mech down too much. I standby that a slight tors twist range increase is warranted. The funny thing is if it came with 80 or even 90 degrees stock no one would be complaining about it being too good/agile.

[Hit the Deck]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 17 June 2015 - 01:03 PM, said:

....Eight of those tons don't work. The other four are great.

You were in my "EXE can jump" thread so you must know what it can do. Do you think that it can't jump high or far enough? If yes then how much more do you want?

As a side note, I think people who aren't pleased with the JJs mainly could because of the sluggish acceleration. I think if PGi upped the accel. somewhat it couldn't hurt and JJs would be funner to use.

[Gas Guzzler]

Hit the Deck, on 17 June 2015 - 01:46 PM, said:

You were in my "EXE can jump" thread so you must know what it can do. Do you think that it can't jump high or far enough? If yes then how much more do you want?

As a side note, I think people who aren't pleased with the JJs mainly could because of the sluggish acceleration. I think if PGi upped the accel. somewhat it couldn't hurt and JJs would be funner to use.

I tend to agree, initial acceleration on lift-off would be welcome, along with a slight increase in max height. Just for Class 1 JJs though, I don't think the rest need any help.

90-100 tonners are punished most per JJ (highest JJ weight to Mech weight ratio) yet they perform the worst. If the Jump Jets are so heavy, they should be able to lift up heavy mechs like .5 ton JJs lift 45-50 ton mechs!

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 17 June 2015 - 01:53 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Khobai, on 17 June 2015 - 01:08 PM, said:

Um yes. Executioner is far more agile than the Banshee because of MASC/JJs. Also XL in a Banshee is suicide, youre literally cutting your survivability in half, because its obvious when a Banshee has an XL and you can just blow out its side torso. So you have to factor that in as well.

You've never used an XL in a Banshee then.

One of the safest Assault mechs to XL, actually. Gigantic arms with no weapons and large shoulder pads mean they take more damage.
Small STs mean not much ST damage, and easily spread. Larger CT means you'll get CT cored more than anything.


108 degrees of torso twist means you can spread damage between those wonderful soaking components.

Edited by Mcgral18, 17 June 2015 - 02:05 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Hit the Deck, on 17 June 2015 - 01:46 PM, said:

You were in my "EXE can jump" thread so you must know what it can do. Do you think that it can't jump high or far enough? If yes then how much more do you want?

You answered your own question, it takes too long to reach that height to actually be useful for "maneuvering."

Khobai, on 17 June 2015 - 01:08 PM, said:

And the Executioner actually jumps pretty okay. I wouldnt call its jumpjets useless. It can jump up the walls in canyon without much trouble, which is generally the benchmark for jumpjets being useful.

I would, you can shimmy up the walls on canyon with only a couple JJs and some speed. The benchmark for JJs being useful is being useful for poptarts or making it harder to hit you while moving which Mark I JJs do neither of.

[Gas Guzzler]

DONTOR, on 17 June 2015 - 11:59 AM, said:

All I have to say is L2MASC, IF you L2MASC you will immediatly see that it can do things no other mech its size could ever dream of. Its agility is truly amazing when you get ahold of it.

So if it had 80 or 90 degree torso twist range to start, it would OP/meta/ultra-comp/try-hard status then?

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Hit the Deck, on 17 June 2015 - 01:46 PM, said:

You were in my "EXE can jump" thread so you must know what it can do. Do you think that it can't jump high or far enough? If yes then how much more do you want?

As a side note, I think people who aren't pleased with the JJs mainly could because of the sluggish acceleration. I think if PGi upped the accel. somewhat it couldn't hurt and JJs would be funner to use.

I can live with the current heights if it did them with expediency. If we don't get expediency, then I'd rather have height.

More acceleration or more height. Also, I posted recently in a thread about Highlander JJs. A HGN only gets 9m of vertical height with 3 JJs, according to TT rules, 3 JJs will move a HGN up 3 levels. A level is six meters, so a stock HGN should be getting 18m of jumps. I also discovered the 3D with 4JJ only gets 12m when it should be getting 24m.

[Hit the Deck]

WM Quicksilver, on 17 June 2015 - 02:01 PM, said:

...
The benchmark for JJs being useful is being useful for poptarts or making it harder to hit you while moving which Mark I JJs do neither of.

Well, your opinion quite surprised me. I thought JJs are for jumping and general maneuvering purposes.

I had to reread it to make sure that I'm reading correctly.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Although I need to test mechs with 5+ JJs, since JJs have a ramping performance. I'll do that when I get home.

[Gas Guzzler]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 17 June 2015 - 02:11 PM, said:

Although I need to test mechs with 5+ JJs, since JJs have a ramping performance. I'll do that when I get home.

Heavy Metal is all ya got for Class 1s

[1453 R]

Gas Guzzler, on 17 June 2015 - 02:02 PM, said:

So if it had 80 or 90 degree torso twist range to start, it would OP/meta/ultra-comp/try-hard status then?

C'mon man, don't be a goober.

M.A.S.C. is a game-changer. It really is. It's utterly pointless for 'Sprint Mode' as people were figuring it'd before and it has nothing to do with twist arcs so that's a bad argument - if you're burning your M.A.S.C. endurance to pick up an extra fourteen klicks in a straightaway you're doing it so wrong I can't even, bro.

What M.A.S.C. does is provide tighter turns and nigh-instantaneous accel and decel, both of which truly shine in a cover-choked environment like our city maps or Bog. The speed bonus M.A.S.C. provides is largely meaningless; the agility bonus is intense. On a Frozen City match I was in especially, I was riding the M.A.S.C. hard, ducking in and out of alleyways like a pretty pretty butterfly, and managed to get off a solid two minutes' additional fighting with half my CT structure gone in the thick of an enemy push.

Now, the Executioner is currently burdened by stupidly restrictive 70-degree twist arcs it has no business suffering from, and if that gets fixed - and if they put elbows on more than two of eight arm pods - we'll be in business. The 'Mech does have its weaknesses, they are significant and will keep it from ever being truly competitive the way hardcore ultracomps define the term, but the Executioner is nevertheless currently unique. 'Unique' is hard to get these days.

Now if only I could figure out what to run on the damn thing...

Edited by 1453 R, 17 June 2015 - 02:20 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

1453 R, on 17 June 2015 - 02:20 PM, said:

C'mon man, don't be a goober.

M.A.S.C. is a game-changer. It really is. It's utterly pointless for 'Sprint Mode' as people were figuring it'd before and it has nothing to do with twist arcs so that's a bad argument - if you're burning your M.A.S.C. endurance to pick up an extra fourteen klicks in a straightaway you're doing it so wrong I can't even, bro.

What M.A.S.C. does is provide tighter turns and nigh-instantaneous accel and decel, both of which truly shine in a cover-choked environment like our city maps or Bog. The speed bonus M.A.S.C. provides is largely meaningless; the agility bonus is intense. On a Frozen City match I was in especially, I was riding the M.A.S.C. hard, ducking in and out of alleyways like a pretty pretty butterfly, and managed to get off a solid two minutes' additional fighting with half my CT structure gone in the thick of an enemy push.

Now, the Executioner is currently burdened by stupidly restrictive 70-degree twist arcs it has no business suffering from, and if that gets fixed - and if they put elbows on more than two of eight arm pods - we'll be in business. The 'Mech does have its weaknesses, they are significant and will keep it from ever being truly competitive the way hardcore ultracomps define the term, but the Executioner is nevertheless currently unique. 'Unique' is hard to get these days.

Now if only I could figure out what to run on the damn thing...

Are you like quoting the wrong person? I said nothing about using MASC in sprint mode..MASC is awesome. All I am saying is the 70 degree twist arc is bogus..

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 17 June 2015 - 02:33 PM.

[1453 R]

Gas Guzzler, on 17 June 2015 - 02:23 PM, said:

Are you like quoting the wrong person? I said nothing about using MASC in sprint mode.. all I am saying is the 70 degree twist arc is bogus..

Ya know, I had a point when I started writing, but then brain happened and I don't even remember what it properly was anymore. Think it had something to do with snark, but...blagh. Heh, never mind me, this happens a lot in my head. Carry on.

[Gas Guzzler]

1453 R, on 17 June 2015 - 02:33 PM, said:

Ya know, I had a point when I started writing, but then brain happened and I don't even remember what it properly was anymore. Think it had something to do with snark, but...blagh. Heh, never mind me, this happens a lot in my head. Carry on.

Yes I was a little snarky, sorry. I don't think upping the 70 degree twist arc a bit would make it OP, and that was my point

[The GaussFather]

s0da72, on 17 June 2015 - 01:22 AM, said:

It's not surprising to see people disappointed with the Executioner. A lot of people dislike the Gargoyle for various reasons and this new mech is basically a slower version of the Gargoyle with jump jets. If you try a heavy caliber ballistic build you will most likely run out of ammo half way through the match. Go with a smaller caliber build for more ammo but now you basically have the same fire power as a medium mech plus have less maneuverability. So that leaves you with the boat as many lasers as possible build, which I can already do with my current Gargoyle, plus move at 81kph without MASC.

You hit the nail on the head... for 95 tons it has the armament of a medium/heavy mech... while the Ebon Jaguar at 65 tons has the loadout my Executioner should have. With the lack of torso twist and low arm hardpoints its just a bad design for MWO. If you had the chance to remove some JJs and MASC you could have something that could compare with a Banshee.