279 replies to this topic

[Mudhutwarrior]

a hacker, on 21 June 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

[Redacted]

You missed the point one is following the RULES and the other is not. The other is trying to justify their breaking of the rules.

Edited by Rhazien, 23 June 2015 - 04:11 PM.

[Mystere]

a hacker, on 21 June 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

Who are you to dictate when I dictate how others should play?

See how ******* stupid circular arguments are?

The only one being stupid here is you, and doubly so because you missed the point entirely.

And a smurf account, really?

Edited by Mystere, 21 June 2015 - 10:14 AM.

[AEgg]

Mudhutwarrior, on 21 June 2015 - 09:59 AM, said:

You missed the point one is following the RULES and the other is not. The other is trying to justify their breaking of the rules.

They're both breaking the rules, non participation (and/or griefing) for one and team treason for the other.

Given that the one reporting the position is trying to help 23 people and the one hiding is trying to bother 23 people, I'd say the one reporting has the better idea.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

AEgg, on 21 June 2015 - 10:14 AM, said:

They're both breaking the rules, non participation (and/or griefing) for one and team treason for the other.

Given that the one reporting the position is trying to help 23 people and the one hiding is trying to bother 23 people, I'd say the one reporting has the better idea.

....not that either idea is necessarily good, mind.

[MechWarrior3671771]

"They're both breaking the rules, non participation (and/or griefing) for one and team treason for the other... I'd say the one reporting has the better idea."

See, this is the problem - he *was* participating. You just don't understand what that rule means. But you are rendering judgment anyway. Its not your place, this is why we have moderators.

[Mystere]

AEgg, on 21 June 2015 - 10:14 AM, said:

They're both breaking the rules, non participation (and/or griefing) for one and team treason for the other.

Given that the one reporting the position is trying to help 23 people and the one hiding is trying to bother 23 people, I'd say the one reporting has the better idea.

You are wrong on so many counts! If you suspect someone griefing, you report them to support, not commit team treason.

Let support determine whether or not they have to take action. But, I can already tell you, nothing will happen because the player did nothing wrong.

Too many here act as if frontier justice is ok, but would probably not last a day living real "frontier justice".

Edited by Mystere, 21 June 2015 - 10:24 AM.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Lunatic_Asylum, on 19 June 2015 - 12:19 PM, said:

Is Power Down button there for a reason?!

In mechwarrior 1st person campaigns, there are clusters of mechs powered down all over the map. When you move in range, they power up and ambush you.

I've tried to power down and wait for people to walk past me to see if I could power up and ambush them from behind a few times. Unsuccessful thus far.

[Raggedyman]

Lunatic_Asylum, on 19 June 2015 - 12:19 PM, said:

We had a match where the outcome was not in our favor. As the last 'Mech, I found a sweet spot where my LRMs could reach people below me, and people above me could not see me well. I powered down, and then 1 person in my team revealed my position. The other one called me "duh", "coward", and the other one kept shouting out my position. Eventually, the enemy came from the side, where I was more vulnerable, thanks to the coordinates.
Is that a normal behavior? Was I doing something wrong? Is Power Down button there for a reason?!

It is indeed normal behaviour for people to rat out your location if you're the last man standing, because some folks can't handle that the game isn't over once it's over for them and consider your playing options to be totally dependent on their whims and fancies.

Sadly there is incredibly little that can be done about it until a vaccine is found for Precious Little Snowflake Syndrome.

[Mystere]

PGI, if you're looking, I think it's a good idea to remove the position indicator. Then team treason will no longer be a problem ever again.

I Zeratul I, on 21 June 2015 - 11:24 AM, said:

In mechwarrior 1st person campaigns, there are clusters of mechs powered down all over the map. When you move in range, they power up and ambush you.

I've tried to power down and wait for people to walk past me to see if I could power up and ambush them from behind a few times. Unsuccessful thus far.

As the saying goes, practice makes perfect.

Raggedyman, on 21 June 2015 - 11:43 AM, said:

Sadly there is incredibly little that can be done about it until a vaccine is found for Precious Little Snowflake Syndrome.

Of course it already exists. It's called polonium 210.

[Ghogiel]

Rhazien, on 21 June 2015 - 09:43 AM, said:

Nope, you don't need to justify yourself. However, it won't matter if you're reported.

Team Treason
Treasonous provision of information to enemy combatants, also known as "bird-doging" is forbidden. This involves a player using the in-game chat to provide the enemy team with the locations of their own team mates. While we appreciate that some players may wish to have a round end early by calling out the location of an AFK team-mate, the risk that this could be used against an active participant of the match to deny them the use of cover and movement makes this a form of a griefing. You may declare a teammate AFK but not their coordinates or position.

GMs do an investigation and will see that the DC/AFK/Griefer is just that. They really do not go around banning paying players for that. in fact as much as I have seen afk/DC/griefers being called out I have never even heard of anyone getting a warning for it.

It may have happened to some actual birddogger troll but that is besides the point.

[Mudhutwarrior]

I Zeratul I, on 21 June 2015 - 11:24 AM, said:

In mechwarrior 1st person campaigns, there are clusters of mechs powered down all over the map. When you move in range, they power up and ambush you.

I've tried to power down and wait for people to walk past me to see if I could power up and ambush them from behind a few times. Unsuccessful thus far.

My advice is practice on the test maps to find the best hidey holes. It's a tactic you need to be sure of and you need seismic to do it right along with fast start by eliteing the mech. Odball colors as camo may feel all e-peen but makes it hard to ambush. Won a few matches hiding and came close a few more. That's over 30k matches though. It's a last ditch strategy and if I am not near a good spot I am not trying it. More than likely dependent on the build I will go ranged if I can.

It's pretty sad so many dead morons think they are entitled because you can have some good fights in the last man zone.

[GeistHrafn]

Ghogiel, on 21 June 2015 - 12:12 PM, said:

GMs do an investigation and will see that the DC/AFK/Griefer is just that. They really do not go around banning paying players for that. in fact as much as I have seen afk/DC/griefers being called out I have never even heard of anyone getting a warning for it.

It may have happened to some actual birddogger troll but that is besides the point.

You're right. Someone that does it to an AFK'er, or to someone who is just trying to protect their K/D ratio most likely will not get warned.
But folks who repeatedly are reported for it, and who are doing it when the last person is trying to go down fighting (regardless of tactic), will eventually get warned/banned for it.

[Dukat281]

There are trolls like the threadstarter who ruin this game for all others. And then they ask for satisfaction when called out. blarg.

[Mr Hunter]

Does anyone here know what an ambush is? No? Try this; https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Ambush
Thanks and have a nice life! He was participating in the match still by ambushing hostiles that came in his sights. Wish more people thought like you Lunatic.

[AEgg]

Mystere, on 21 June 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:

You are wrong on so many counts! If you suspect someone griefing, you report them to support, not commit team treason.

Let support determine whether or not they have to take action. But, I can already tell you, nothing will happen because the player did nothing wrong.

Too many here act as if frontier justice is ok, but would probably not last a day living real "frontier justice".

You totally missed the point of my post.

Both people are breaking the rules, that's a given. (There's a big difference between shutting down and hiding and actually trying to win. I'm assuming the player is either AFK or has been shutdown and not moving for more than a few minutes so it's obvious they aren't coming back).

Given that, one person does it for either personal gain (preserving KDR) or as deliberate griefing. The other person is doing it to help the 23 other players finish the match faster. One of these is clearly worse than the other.

Raggedyman, on 21 June 2015 - 11:43 AM, said:

It is indeed normal behaviour for people to rat out your location if you're the last man standing, because some folks can't handle that the game isn't over once it's over for them and consider your playing options to be totally dependent on their whims and fancies.

Sadly there is incredibly little that can be done about it until a vaccine is found for Precious Little Snowflake Syndrome.

I don't know what game you're playing, but in all my games since closed beta I've literally NEVER seen someone who was still moving or had moved recently have their position given away.

Edited by AEgg, 21 June 2015 - 02:16 PM.

[Mudhutwarrior]

One is still playing the match, the other thinks he is. No matter what if someone decides to hide as a teammate its not my place to expose him. In the rules you have to choices, drop out of the match or report him for a marginal infraction.

Team treason is far from marginal however which way you slice it.

[AEgg]

Mudhutwarrior, on 21 June 2015 - 02:14 PM, said:

One is still playing the match, the other thinks he is. No matter what if someone decides to hide as a teammate its not my place to expose him. In the rules you have to choices, drop out of the match or report him for a marginal infraction.

Team treason is far from marginal however which way you slice it.

So why is there a grey area for AFKing/Griefing but not for reporting position? You can't say it's all black and white for one argument but that there's a grey area for the other. They're both breaking minor rules and neither is really hurting anyone. Seems to me that they're both clearly grey areas.

I'm not really arguing for reporting someone's position. I don't typically do it myself unless they're disconnected. What I'm saying is that reporting position is not as bad as hiding with no intention of trying to win. Maybe they're both still in the wrong, that's not my point. When one side acts intending to help and the other acts out of either self interest or intentional griefing, there's not really much to debate over whose action is worse.

[Basilisk222]

The only time it is OK to give up your teammates position is the last mech being disconnected.

I've seen a bunch of people call a powered down player a coward... but that's in my opinion fair. It is not right to sell out your team. Ever, unless that person is shooting your teammates and you need to let the team know.

That's my opinion, that's just being a poor player, you don't know what they have planned, and if it's a minute or two for them to survive, that's a valid thing for them to try to do, especially since achievements are a thing in relation to damage.

[GeistHrafn]

AEgg, on 21 June 2015 - 02:31 PM, said:

So why is there a grey area for AFKing/Griefing but not for reporting position? You can't say it's all black and white for one argument but that there's a grey area for the other. They're both breaking minor rules and neither is really hurting anyone. Seems to me that they're both clearly grey areas.

There is no grey area in the case outlined by the OP. He stated:

Lunatic_Asylum, on 19 June 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:

The whole conversation with revealing happened right after I typed my line. There was no pausing, questions, or waiting for the explanation.

Edited by Rhazien, 21 June 2015 - 02:49 PM.
Learning to space

[Mudhutwarrior]

AEgg, on 21 June 2015 - 02:31 PM, said:

So why is there a grey area for AFKing/Griefing but not for reporting position? You can't say it's all black and white for one argument but that there's a grey area for the other. They're both breaking minor rules and neither is really hurting anyone. Seems to me that they're both clearly grey areas.

I'm not really arguing for reporting someone's position. I don't typically do it myself unless they're disconnected. What I'm saying is that reporting position is not as bad as hiding with no intention of trying to win. Maybe they're both still in the wrong, that's not my point. When one side acts intending to help and the other acts out of either self interest or intentional griefing, there's not really much to debate over whose action is worse.

In the rules it's a bannable offense for giving a teammates position. Then it states intentionally powering down or going out of bound without participation for repeated abuses. Obviously one is worse than the other by PGI's own language.

People can be new and trying things. One of the instructions to pop up in the wait screen is about powering down. You read it and you try it. You try it a lot if your new.

I never have seen any instructions telling you to give away a teammates position when they are powered down or hiding.

Honestly one has to be a complete moron not to see the difference here.