111 replies to this topic

[Koshirou]

Wildstreak, on 23 June 2015 - 02:57 PM, said:

#1 - Respawns.
Not just in this game. Respawns lead to spawn camping lead to other stuff that just ruins any game. Not realistic and bad game design. Eliminate respawns, let death mean something.

That would require completely revising CW on a tactical level. Not going to happen. Also, people are not going to accept 10 minutes of waiting for 5 minutes of match.

Quote

#2 - Not New Player Friendly.
Then keep them out. Make a requirement you cannot play unless you use Mastered Mechs. So you need 4 Mastered Mechs for a Drop Deck, don't have 4 Mastered Mechs within tonnage limits? Sorry, no CW for you. That should be a good barrier to new folk using trial Mechs or those with newly purchased Mechs still learning.

If implemented now, this would simply kill CW dead by eliminating almost the entire remaining IS player base. Not going to happen.

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#4 - Rank the Teams.
We have separate Elo rankings for Solo and Group in Usual Queue, assign a rank system to CW. PUGs ALWAYS have a rank of 0. Then allow people somehow to see the ranks of groups waiting at a planet and match up ranked teams.

CW population is far too low and too uneven for this to result in any games. Not going to happen.

To fix CW it would need to be redone from scratch. Since MWO is not an actual beta, but a money-generating game, this is unlikely to happen.

Edited by Koshirou, 24 June 2015 - 12:38 AM.

[Black Ivan]

I think, too. CW won't be redesigned from scratch, all we can hope for PGI will make a moderate medicore thing, otherwise CW ill fail utterly.

[Karamarka]

queue time

never get any games for CSJ

[Kin3ticX]

Karamarka, on 25 June 2015 - 08:46 AM, said:

queue time

never get any games for CSJ

Yeah, this has been a problem that comes and goes. I have had a few short contracts where we simply had to leave because we were struggling to get matches.

One option is to wait for PGI to make some sort of adjustment to Community Warfare.

Another option is for the community to consolidate. Mercstar suggests units pick Jade, Wolf, Steiner, and FRR contracts if they are trying to avoid empty queues at all costs.

Even with the attack lanes and defense pacts, it is still possible to be isolated. For example, let say CSJ can't find anyone to attack or defend during a given night. That same night, Steiner is defending from Jade and Wolf attacks but not attacking. Since Steiner is not attacking, this means CSJ can't participate in that whole side of the map.

There are also "hand of god" scenarios such as the Tukayidd event, Clan Invasion Event, and Wave III. For example, it really does feel like most of the active CW units took Clan contracts in response to Wave III(Mercstar did as well). This left IS with fewer than normal units and lots of solos. The Clan is taking ground every ceasefire.

Now, PGI should have at least tried to offset this by offering a smaller post game rewards for Clan and a much larger IS rewards.

With the PGI "hand of god" in play, we are getting close to a Terra event and I assume Russ will be announcing details for that tonight. It is just as one sided as it could possibly be though.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 25 June 2015 - 10:00 AM.

[sdsnowbum]

Kin3ticX, on 25 June 2015 - 09:56 AM, said:

<awesome stuff>

Very nice post - and great job in general at keeping a level head and giving out solid advice.

Another option is to create an alt account.

[windermere]

Thank you! Awesome post. Not sure how to fix things, but something needs to be fixed.

[Bigbacon]

obviously they need to do something...no one is playing it. every time I look the planet queues are all zero except for maybe 1 planet.

Black Ivan, on 24 June 2015 - 02:02 AM, said:

otherwise CW ill fail utterly.

it pretty much already has.

[C E Dwyer]

Low population, when no event on.

No point in being there,

because other than a few pointless floaty titles, there is nothing you can get there that you can't buy, or get in weekend events, for far less wait time.

Taking planets has no effect

[Deathlike]

There's too many things broken about CW, and frankly I don't think I'd contribute more to what's already stated.

However, I do have an idea about CW and some form of MM that would somewhat solve the solos vs premades, but not to the same degree.

While 12v12 is what we should be playing ultimately, I think active CW player population should be a leveraged in such a way that is "scales" to the # of participants in a queue of some way.

Instead of having only 12v12 (which is currently the only thing running), groups should be "dumbed down" to 8v8, 6v6, or even 4v4 depending on the state of the # of solos queued up. Solo players would not get the option to queue up on the planet of choice though.. as we kind of still need them to construct the match. Having solos queue up on planets of no relevance is something worth solving.

Elo would have to be used (probably as some average of the weight classes used in the dropdeck, but that would have to be weighted and adjusted - this could be difficult - would require a level of seeding of 30 or 35 to 50 matches or so in each weight class) in order to do this.

We'd also have to "break down" some of the bigger groups as necessary in order to accomplish this... whether it is splitting a 12-man into an 8-man and 4-man or whatever combination. This has to be done in order for the MM to "reconstruct" a "fairer premade" (it would still be imperfect) that would reduce the effectiveness of the team constructed.

However, larger premades (probably min of 4 or 6 or some #) would get to pick the planets that they want to attack (allowing for more nodes to be taken with a smaller active CW playerbase, if there is any left).

I'm not a fan of this idea, but that's the only "compromise" that would have to be made.

However, there needs to be more innovative modes, because Skirmish 2-ways with 4 mechs is not exactly interesting either.

Note that with Invasion mode and turrets (and dropships) would have to be scaled back in regards to these modes (less turrets and less laserfire from dropships vs smaller groups), and would require PGI to dynamically adjust the maps/mode to accomplish this (unless, this is Lostech, like many things).

At this point though, I've given up on this mode being meaningful, despite the promises in the Town Hall.

Edited by Deathlike, 25 June 2015 - 06:43 PM.

[Corka]

To fix the population issues CW should simply be more rewarding than doing random matches when you consider time invested. Why would someone want to do IS pug when it will almost certainly involve a crushing defeat against a clan premade, and will result in much fewer CBills and mech xp? Once the population is up, *then* you could consider things like excluding trial mechs.

[Bigbacon]

Corka, on 25 June 2015 - 07:05 PM, said:

To fix the population issues CW should simply be more rewarding than doing random matches when you consider time invested. Why would someone want to do IS pug when it will almost certainly involve a crushing defeat against a clan premade, and will result in much fewer CBills and mech xp? Once the population is up, *then* you could consider things like excluding trial mechs.

this really should be priority #1 for CW. So many voice for it and so many voice against it and it has been the one major issue since day 1. mixed groups vs pre-mades will always be a problem, what they need to figure out is how to greatly reduce the frequency that it will happen.

Problem there is you need to actually get more people playing CW. During the events it wasn't so bad, still bad, but not nearly as much. The more players there are, the less chance of facing a pre-made.

mixed groups vs mixed groups, most of the time came out pretty even.

Now this doesn't solve problem #2 which is that CW is BORING as hell, takes too long, and doesn't pay out.

You need to look at it from a majority point of view. some will say it pays well but if you are an average player, who spends some time playing per week, then forget it. The groups ***** because it should be groups only but then you don't have any players like you see now.

actually, problem #1 was PGI saying CW was hardcore mode and tryhard only....they screwed up before it even came out. You can't ignore what makes up most of your player base...

[tenchugecko]

as long as forward speed is higher than backward speed, rushing is the only option
even chokes cant do much about it. only turrets

cw undwerpopulation time : just use 1 planet for all, let players switch faction without penalties

the Galaxy map is just in the way of the game right now.

Test out radically different map designs. **** the eye candy for now.
lots of gens and lots of turrets with less hp
soldier and tank creep waves for far behind teams.

Get someone completely new on board for cw2 alpha or it will be doomed by lack of imagination.

ps. ALMOST EVERY POST IN HERE HAS VERY GOOD POINTS.
dont be afraid, it cant get worse.

Edited by tenchugecko, 26 June 2015 - 03:43 PM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

We need a gamemode that makes use of every mech type/role. Scouts have nothing to do here because the maps aren't big enough and even if they were, we all know where the objectives and enemies will be. It needs to be randomized and on a large scale. Both teams need something to attack and defend so there is some kind of give and take in every match. Something that splits up the 12 man deathball. Lances are useless.

[CainenEX]

Kin3ticX, on 25 June 2015 - 09:56 AM, said:

Another option is for the community to consolidate. Mercstar suggests units pick Jade, Wolf, Steiner, and FRR contracts if they are trying to avoid empty queues at all costs.

Unfortunately, and I know you mean well, but this is what I flagged Antonius Rex for in his community "event" post.
While this will help alleviate the CW problem you will be abandoning a lot of "loyalist" units in their territory. Sure its easy for us mercs and the rest to move. But please think about those that are happy being the Davion loyalists. Aylward of HHoD would not switch, and yet you would effectively abandon him and the units of liao, marik and davion. Seems like a very one sided deal. Merc star tried this again before hand as well and since you've gone FRR I assume you'll be doing this again: "using your numbers to influence the map to route attack lanes and cut off factions". Again that isn't really fair and most definitely one of the reasons PGI is looking to break groups down into a 100 man cap, aside from points stacking on events (but I can blame PGI on that one for not coming up with a balancing scoring system).

We need PGI to address several issues that we have with CW and they need to take responsibility for it, not Merc Star. I advise to vote with your Wallet and your play time. Other than that we can try reaching out as a single united voice to PGI. The rest really is up to them.

Edited by CainenEX, 15 July 2015 - 08:26 AM.

[Kin3ticX]

CainenEX, on 15 July 2015 - 08:04 AM, said:

Unfortunately, and I know you mean well, but this is what I flagged Antonius Rex for in his community "event" post.
While this will help alleviate the CW problem you will be abandoning a lot of "loyalist" units in their territory. Sure its easy for us mercs and the rest to move.

We need PGI to address several issues that we have with CW and they need to take responsibility for it, not Merc Star. I advise to vote with your Wallet and your play time. Other than that we can try reaching out as a single united voice to PGI. The rest really is up to them.

During the last event there were not enough active players to represent each faction adequately.

There are things the community can do all on its own without waiting for PGI. You advocate loyalists should camp there favorite faction to the bitter end, and in the same post you also suggest players quit spending or playing to show PGI.

I highly prefer a community driven bandaid over waiting for PGI or suggesting players quit to make PGI work faster. Loyalists should have the faction they want but the evidence shows that there just are not enough active players to support 10 factions, even during an event.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 15 July 2015 - 09:08 AM.

[CainenEX]

Kin3ticX, on 15 July 2015 - 09:04 AM, said:

During the last event there were not enough active players to represent each faction adequately.

There are things the community can do all on its own without waiting for PGI. You advocate loyalists should camp there favorite faction to the bitter end, and in the same post you also suggest players quit spending or playing to show PGI.

I highly prefer a community driven bandaid over waiting for PGI or suggesting players quit to make PGI work faster. Loyalists should have the faction they want but the evidence shows that there just are not enough active players to support 10 factions, even during an event.

Yes and that was quite sad to see. I hope more would join for the fun!

My appologises if my communication came across as such a message but that was not what I meant to say. What I meant was that these Loyalists love this game, it's lore, etc, and it would be very unfair to alienate them like that. I did not advertise for people to quit, and that would be sad to see. What I meant, and should have expanded upon, is that perhaps people could spend more time in CW to teach others about the game. The Monitors are trying to do that, and we are trying to learn from the bigger (and more experienced) guys too.

Its just rather unfortunate because a lot of the in game design has been at fault for creating this disinterest in CW. I've heard from the masses and I'm sure you, yourself are very acquainted with it's problems at the designer level.

Don't get me wrong, I love this game and (most) of it's community. It's been a long time since I was super excited for big stompy robot action. More than anything I want this game to succeed, not fail. Sometimes I just feel like we need to give PGI a kick and say " Hey we're here! We love your game! We want it to be even better. Here is our community Idea".

[Vellron2005]

My personal top 10 complaints about CW:

1) Lack of planet meaning.. the planets don't mean apsolutely anything to anyone.
2) Lack of immersion - we dont feel like we'r fighting a galactic war, we just keep protecting these wierd looking cannons.
3) Low map count - Dropping on the same few maps gets really old, really fast.
4) Lack of realistic objectives - If we'r invading and fighting a war, where's all the "war"? Why same old omega?
5) Apsurdly long wait times - Nobody wants to wait 20+ minutes to play a 30 minute game mode. I wanna play.. NOW.
6) Not being able to attack any planet near a faction's border. Sirius and New Earth near WOLF-surrounded Terra are just apsurd.
7) Ghost drops - silly way of rewarding players (not) for taking 20 minutes of their lives and waiting to get - nothing.
8) Merc units more influential than whole factions - how can this be?
9) Lack of ablity to pre-scan a planet and know what map you'r dropping on, and then selecting the proper mech. it's stupid to not know your dropping on a snowy map and being forced to select your bright-red painted mech instead of your all-white one.
10) Lack of a simple "save/load dropdeck" function... seriously? In this day and age we still don't have that simple function?

[Thumper3]

madhermit, on 23 June 2015 - 07:31 AM, said:

Explain then why is it possible for solo players to queue up to CW?

Because PGI. Nuff said. LMAO

Were you not here when there were separate ques where solos and small groups would only fight solos and small groups, and 12 mans would only fight 12 mans? Wait times due to low population were ridiculous sometimes in the 12 man que's, so they just opened the flood gates. That same reason is why they have Un-restricted ques in CW; low population.

Just like you CAN stick your hand in a blender, but that doesn't mean you should.

madhermit, on 23 June 2015 - 07:31 AM, said:

People are saying they don't want to join a unit because the responsibilities and duties involved in being in one far outweight the rewards.

You seem to have a very developed, yet very off base, idea of units. There are units of all types from the hardcore you must play X times a week comp teams all the way down to the super casual we just want to play the game together groups, and everything in between. There is no reason to play CW solo unless you really, really want to......I can't understand why you WOULD, but everyone is different.

12 casuals just having fun with no requirements or "duties" on voice and playing together and communicating to win will still triumph over 12 solos more than not. Teamwork is OP.


For purposes of this thread, the reason CW is dead is simple and easy, it was hit on early and often already.

What is the point?

Beta 2 is pretty much identical to Beta 1, no new content except some maps (good, but still too little), no real changes.

No economy, planets held are meaningless, gameplay is boring since it's the same as Beta 1. Repetitive pointless drops are repetitive and boring.

It's not complex for anyone but PGI.

Edited by Thumper3, 17 July 2015 - 11:18 AM.

[DaFrog]

CW is dead, it just needs to be buried.

[RacerX]

I'll add something positive. In my opinion, since CW is really focused on Clan Invasion, why not make CW a struggle over a single planet like we did with the Tukiyadd event? The planet would remain the primary battleground for X number of cycles before a winner was declared and the combat was moved to the next planet. This idea would slow down the crazy map advancement we are seeing. It would also concentrate the dwindling CW Community into a single queue instead of being spread over multiple battlefields. It would also allow the "Hand of God" to control which side was on attack or defense at the conflict's outset.