31 replies to this topic

[Tycon]

Will adding 4 or 5 machine guns to a mech do Anything??? Been tinkering with the 3C and would love the speed of a big engine but have to drop the ac 5. I've used them months ago and they sucked but will they at least damage lights enough to scurry away. I know their niche is "hit internal parts" but armor wise will they do any damage even when boated?

[Joseph Mallan]

It will let you continue to throw damage if you are really hot.

[Ovion]

Tycon, on 20 June 2015 - 03:23 AM, said:

Will adding 4 or 5 machine guns to a mech do Anything??? Been tinkering with the 3C and would love the speed of a big engine but have to drop the ac 5. I've used them months ago and they sucked but will they at least damage lights enough to scurry away. I know their niche is "hit internal parts" but armor wise will they do any damage even when boated?

Yes.

Your effective range with them is inside 200 meters, and you need to keep the fire constant, but they can put out a reasonable amount of damage.

4 gives you a sustained DPS of 3.2 for 1-2T+Ammo (depending on Clan / IS)

[Hit the Deck]

BTW Clanners can put 3x MGs and a ton of ammo for 2 tons total if they want. On TBR, EBJ, and HBR you can do this as a backup, for example, while still carrying the main loadout.

Edited by Hit the Deck, 20 June 2015 - 03:49 AM.

[Ovion]

Hit the Deck, on 20 June 2015 - 03:48 AM, said:

BTW Clanners can put 3x MGs and a ton of ammo for 2 tons total if they want. On TBR, EBJ, and HBR you can do this as a backup, for example, while still carrying the main loadout.

Clan MGs are .25T each, meaning each 2+1/2T ammo is 1T.

3+1T = 1.75T.

[Hit the Deck]

Ovion, on 20 June 2015 - 04:24 AM, said:

Clan MGs are .25T each, meaning each 2+1/2T ammo is 1T.

3+1T = 1.75T.

Ah, thanks. I didn't realize that smurfy rounds the decimals up.

[Bishop Steiner]

they sound cool?

But truth is, even with 4, you are doing minimal impact now, and the "crit seeking" on them has been underwhelming for quite some time. Anything under 4? Honestly a waste of time, and 99% of effect you think you are getting is placebo.

Have been crap (again) since about a couple of week after Ember was introduced.

[stjobe]

Two things to consider:
1. MGs are continuous-fire, so to get their paltry 0.8 DPS you have to be on-target for the whole second.
2. MGs have a cone of fire, so you will be spreading your already poor DPS all over the target.

Yes, with four MGs the combined sustained DPS is 3.2, but it also prevents you from twisting defensively to spread incoming fire, and your DPS will be spread across several locations on the target.

In short, they're not quite useless when mounted in triple-, quad-, or more, but they're not great either.

Edited by stjobe, 20 June 2015 - 04:39 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

stjobe, on 20 June 2015 - 04:38 AM, said:

Two things to consider:
1. MGs are continuous-fire, so to get their paltry 0.8 DPS you have to be on-target for the whole second.
2. MGs have a cone of fire, so you will be spreading your already poor DPS all over the target.

Yes, with four MGs the combined sustained DPS is 3.2, but it also prevents you from twisting defensively to spread incoming fire, and your DPS will be spread across several locations on the target.

In short, they're not quite useless when mounted in triple-, quad-, or more, but they're not great either.

but NO HEAT!!!!!

Remember to Russ and Paul that's like FREE firepower, even if you still had to spend tonnage on it, and of course have other drawbacks you just mentioned!


but...NO HEAT!!!!!

[Hit the Deck]

I bet it would be fun to shoot elementals with it. Wish that we had them (elementals) in game.

[stjobe]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 June 2015 - 04:42 AM, said:

but NO HEAT!!!!!

Remember to Russ and Paul that's like FREE firepower, even if you still had to spend tonnage on it, and of course have other drawbacks you just mentioned!


but...NO HEAT!!!!!

Heh, yeah. The curse of the no-heat weapon in the minds of the clueless

I mean, they even think heat-neutral 'mechs would break the game, even though most BT 'mechs were heat-neutral by design. I guess it's just bad luck for us to get stuck with designers that don't have the first clue about BT.

[STEF_]

Joseph Mallan, on 20 June 2015 - 03:25 AM, said:

It will let you continue to throw damage if you are really hot.

Joe! If you write in this way someone can think that mg can do dmg....

I'll fix your phrase: "It will let you spit in enemy face if you are really hot and cannot do something else"

[Kmieciu]

Tycon, on 20 June 2015 - 03:23 AM, said:

Will adding 4 or 5 machine guns to a mech do Anything??? Been tinkering with the 3C and would love the speed of a big engine but have to drop the ac 5. I've used them months ago and they sucked but will they at least damage lights enough to scurry away. I know their niche is "hit internal parts" but armor wise will they do any damage even when boated?

Try Uac5+erppc in the same side torso. A double shot from uac5 deals more damage than 3 seconds od continous point blank machinegun fire. Combined with erppc you can real 20 almost-pinpoint damage. I found it the best build for the 3C. Cicada has a huge CT therefore face hugging will get you killed faster than in a Commando. Use the fact that you can spam the Erppc from 800 meters and conserve uac5 ammo for sure shots.

[Ovion]

Stefka Kerensky, on 20 June 2015 - 04:53 AM, said:

Joe! If you write in this way someone can think that mg can do dmg....

I'll fix your phrase: "It will let you spit in enemy face if you are really hot and cannot do something else"

You can, and do do damage with them.

Sure you can't torso twist really while using them, and you have to be in kissing distance, but they have a greater DPS than 1 AC5!

And for certain mechs, that works out pretty well (primarily lights), though yeah, often there's many better things.
But for an extra 1-2T when you're packing laser vomit it gives you a few extra points of damage to put out while you cool - might even finish off your target.

[STEF_]

Ovion, on 20 June 2015 - 05:30 AM, said:

You can, and do do damage with them.

Sure you can't torso twist really while using them, and you have to be in kissing distance, but they have a greater DPS than 1 AC5!

And for certain mechs, that works out pretty well (primarily lights), though yeah, often there's many better things.
But for an extra 1-2T when you're packing laser vomit it gives you a few extra points of damage to put out while you cool - might even finish off your target.

It must be for this reason that I saw an Hunchie 4G with 3 mg+ lezors

[Alistair Winter]

MGs are underpowered, for sure. But they're also widely underappreciated. I've been running my Ember a little this weekend and I've lost count of all my MG kills. Granted, 6 medium lasers is better than 4ML+2MG, but the Ember is still pretty powerful.

Not to mention that most people lose control of their bowels when 4MGs are pinging off their mech. Even though they don't do that much damage, people still get really stressed.

[Mad Porthos]

Can't count the number of times machine guns made a difference for me. Unlike many pilots, despite having tens of thousands of drops, I do not simply turn off my heat management/override first thing when I enter a match. As a result, I find myself maintaining high heat levels at times in a brawl, or when responding to a push. Especially in a push, enemy mefichs like to move in with a lot of noise and thunder, their big mechs taking the brunt while their other mechs coming up the rear to fill in as those front mechs either die or have to let up off the firing trigger to cool down. That second wave rolls in and watches as the defenders either peel off to hide and cool, or else shutdown, becoming easy prey. Either way, it's easier to push in at this point if the second line keeps pushing - and having machine guns either if you are a defender, or an attacker who wants to keep up pressure, is good.

Further, if you are playing someone built around high heat alpha builds, with a little awareness your machine guns can spell victory by allowing you NOT to shut down and to get that kill either when he's powered down, or AS he is powering back up, since you yourself have been able to cool down during his shutdown. Even two machine guns on a thunderbolt in arms, or three on some big assault can be useful, especially if it's on an arm because you can train it on your opponent who shut down in front of you, from your ARM while you pivot open sections of your torso away and hit a cool pod. I ran an asymetric standard build assault for a long time, and because I was running standard engine, heavy ballistics was a bit much for my arm, but I think I had 2 or 3 ballistics points on that mech (victor b - if I recall, or maybe it was k the one with most ballistics whatever the case was). People would either try to shoot that arm off because there was no dynamic weapons yet at that time, in which case they wasted alot of time on 3 machineguns, or else they would try to take a torso for an XL kill that was not going to happen. Meanwhile, I would often use my main torso weapons and aim using "free look" even at times, so that an open torso was turned away from the enemy, but the arm weapons still were aiming at them as I would circle and keep machinegunning at any opened up part.

It wasn't brilliant, but it worked and redeemed the build for the dps it had while alpha fools were shutting down or dying due to overheats. What was infuriating though of course were the alpha guys who managed like 6 er ppcs, who wouldn't die due to heat bugs meaning no damage while shutdown. But even then, the regular weapons the mech had and those machine guns meant I could clean up on those mechs when they shut down and I had that moment simply to focus an open part.

[Lexx]

Machine guns are kinda like reaching out with a feather and tickling your enemy. Unless their armor is gone and you get a crit, they really don't do much damage.

Still better than flamers though.

[Tapdancing Kerensky]

I'm a big fan of machineguns in builds where you don't have to give up much to take them.

They DO get you kills, especially when shooting exposed components and getting crits. They also have a great psychological effect on some people who seem to panic. Bonus points if your machineguns are actually secondary or tertiary weapons on a heavy/assault that has a lot more firepower spooling up while you rat-a-tat away cooling down.

[Mechteric]

Just don't be that guy who sprays machine gun fire at mechs who have armor still. Only fire them when they are on internal armor already in at least 1 location.