115 replies to this topic

[L3mming2]

IMO the current clan meta of Gauss + ERML's is due to Gauss rifles having (on top of good range, damage and velocity) very low heat.

i was thinking that slightly razing gauss heat and lowering the heat of other ballistics (clan and is aswell as the Uac's..) might diversify the meta, what do you think?

a example,
gauss; 3 heat
AC2's; 0.5
AC5's; stay the same
AC10's; 2
AC20's; 5

[bad arcade kitty]

i think that gauss is popular because other clan ballistic still suck

[Armorine]

Yes let's nerd everything clan!!!!! Seriously go try clan ballistics. Gauss rifles are fine where they are. They're probably the best balanced weapon in the game.

[TyphonCh]

Gauss doesn't shouldn't generate heat at all... The physics behind the weapon just wouldn't. Because Mechwarrior physics say so. It's like a high tech slingshot
EDIT: fixed it for you science toters. haha

It bothers me more, is that so far all clan weapons function slightly differently... Except gauss and SRMs. But SRMs firing in a stream like the current LRMs would be uber gay.
This idea just popped into my head now.. maybe it needs its own thread. But I read in a different thread that in TT gauss was supposed to have a minimum range of 2, which is something like 90m. While I think it's ridiculous that a weapon of its type should magically do 0 damage within 90m, something else may be in order?

I'm thinking that Clan gauss should just remain as is, right now, no changes.
An IS gauss should rifle should have it's charge removed. .....I've always back it up saying that charge should stay, but in saying that most weapons between IS and Clan are different, we could strike a balance

The reason I pick IS for this is because the current range perfectnessness of Clan ERmeds and their gauss rifles.

Remove the charge, but double the reload. It's currently 4sec? Bump it up to 8sec, and give it that minimum range. Maybe even bump that minimum range up to 120m, or even 200m. But instead of doing 0 damage, just give the gauss a %50 chance to not land where you're aiming. %80 for 2 gauss rifles. Since IS is supposed to be the underdog here for weapons, their gauss rifles should have some limitations. Just a thought... Wouldn't be a direct nerf, but it would definately make me think twice about doubling up on gauss rifles.

You could even force the minimum range on Clans as well, but requiring a TC to lower the % chance on a miss within that range?

Edited by Team Chevy86, 21 June 2015 - 07:28 AM.

[ozmodion]

Armorine, on 21 June 2015 - 07:06 AM, said:

Yes let's nerd everything clan!!!!! Seriously go try clan ballistics. Gauss rifles are fine where they are. They're probably the best balanced weapon in the game.

yes agreed.

[Y E O N N E]

Team Chevy86, on 21 June 2015 - 07:11 AM, said:

Gauss doesn't generate heat at all... The physics behind the weapon just wouldn't. It's like a high tech slingshot

Wrong. An electromagnetic propulsion system requires high voltage and high current to move a slug at lethal, armor-defeating velocities. Resistance increases with current, and so you get a lot of heat when you have a lot of current. Moving so many electrons so quickly through a system invokes some very high thermal loads. BattleTech and MechWarrior completely neglect those thermal loads for whatever reason. In MWO, it's a problem because that allows them to sync with high-damage (30+) energy payloads without any penalty whatsoever.

That said, the Gauss itself isn't a problem as much as being able to mass 50 points of damage in lasers and still being able to fire it without shutting down is a problem.

[GreyNovember]

Negligible changes. Your Gauss still offers long range, 15 damage that doesn't drop with distance.

Wouldn't affect my builds very much.

[L3mming2]

Team Chevy86, on 21 June 2015 - 07:11 AM, said:

Gauss doesn't generate heat at all... The physics behind the weapon just wouldn't. It's like a high tech slingshot

as far as i am aware a gauss rifle works by sending huge amounts of currents thru coils creating a magnetic field witch propels the metal slug.

the huge amounts of currents create equaly huge amounts of heat (think of things like a old light bulb or a ellectrick grill...)

[L3mming2]

GreyNovember, on 21 June 2015 - 07:22 AM, said:

Negligible changes. Your Gauss still offers long range, 15 damage that doesn't drop with distance.

Wouldn't affect my builds very much.

its not to make gauss builds crap, its to make the gap between gauss + lasers and other ballistics + lasers smaller

[Ultimax]

Gauss can explode.

It has very low HP.

It requires a charge up which reduces ability to make real snapshots.

It has the worst overall re-fire rate (and 2nd worst base DPS) of all big ballistics.



It doesn't need a heat increase.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 21 June 2015 - 07:30 AM.

[TyphonCh]

L3mming2, on 21 June 2015 - 07:29 AM, said:

its not to make gauss builds crap, its to make the gap between gauss + lasers and other ballistics + lasers smaller

Lets just give gauss rifles a %300 chance to explode violently when fired simultaneously with 2 or more lasers.
FIXD

[Y E O N N E]

Grisbane, on 21 June 2015 - 07:23 AM, said:

actually the stalker 4n's alpha is 54, the timber/ebj alpha for vomit is also 54.. and all 3 can do it multiple times without shutting down.. just saying

It was just a general number I was using. I don't believe you should be able to fire an energy combo higher than 30 without shutting down. 30 is a good number; it's high enough to feel potent but not so powerful that it removes entire side torsos in single blasts. I shouldn't have to tip-toe around in 60 ton 'Mechs. With such a huge number of players in TBRs, EBJs, and DWFs and the odd guy in a Stalker 4N, there is a lot of high-alpha spam going on.

[Summon3r]

lol are you kidding OP, nerf the only remotely decent clan ballistic good plan, keep nerfing everything clan its working well for game population

[TyphonCh]

GreyNovember, on 21 June 2015 - 07:22 AM, said:

Negligible changes. Your Gauss still offers long range, 15 damage that doesn't drop with distance.

Wouldn't affect my builds very much.

Many builds, no. But if something like what I suggested was implemented, it wouldn't be near as much as a fear weapon up close for lights. people would know you're ability to do damage in a close range brawl would be limited. Players would also have an easier time repositioning if a guass was sniping them.
EDIT: I assume you were quoting me. my bad

Edited by Team Chevy86, 21 June 2015 - 07:37 AM.

[Ghogiel]

Clan gauss is that good. I really can't say it's balanced tbh. But with IS mechs so quirked, comparing weapon stats, particularly between IS/clan, is rather pointless now imo.

[bad arcade kitty]

Ghogiel, on 21 June 2015 - 07:36 AM, said:

Clan gauss is that good. I really can't say it's balanced tbh.

it's balanced by fixed structure on all clan mechs and no endo on many clan mechs

[Havyek]

Maybe people should get better instead of crying that X, Y, Z weapon is OP and needs to be nerfed?

I keep hearing Clan is OP, IS is OP, Gauss is OP lasers are OP, Mechs are OP.

Maybe we can just remove everything from the game and play rock paper scissors?





Nah, everyone knows rock is OP.

[ScarecrowES]

There's not much point to further nerfing gauss rifles. They're already a far cry from their table-top balancing and are easily the second worst/useless slug AC in the game (the AC2 is worse). The only reason you see it at all on the battlefield is because many people feel that clan ACs are just wasted tonnage.

Compared, of course, to an IS AC20, the gauss rifle is:
-heavier (one ton)
-does less point damage (25% less than the AC20)
-has a greater cooldown (adds charge time)
-has lower damage per second rating (3.16 vs 5)
-will explode like ammo if critted (dangerous to mount on many IS mechs)
-significantly more difficult to use (charges don't store and significant face time is required)

It has only limited advantages over an AC20 including:
-increased range (more than double)
-no heat
-no ammo explosions

Frankly, for most people, the disadvantages vastly outweigh the paultry advantages the gauss has. Now that the clan UACs have better time between shots, they're a much better choice than the gauss, and you're seeing a lot of gauss stripped off mechs that used to be built around them. And for many of us, even being able to effectively use a gauss despite its difficulty is still not enough reason to bring one over a series of weapons with higher damage potential and utility. Most builds are actively lowering their damage potential by trying to build around a gauss rather than other weapons.

Gauss rifles are supposed to be a common primary weapon for mechs, and come on a lot of stock configs. The tabletop version is perfectly balanced as it is, and doesn't have the dumb charge mechanic. The trade-off for gauss over AC20 is you get range for increased weight and extreme vulnerability.

I say you wanna fix gauss? Remove the charge altogether as per tabletop rules, or keep the charge but let players store that charge to allow for immediate firing later (in such a case, have the gauss only explode when critted if charged). Also, bring back the 90m minimum on the weapon, but scale the damage down from 90-0m to a minimum of say... 5 at 0m? This should also be the way PPCs work... instead of immediate damage drop under 90m, do less on a progressive curve to 0m with a defined minimum of roughly 1/3 damage. No direct-fire weapon should ever do 0 damage within its max effective range.

So there ya go... gauss rifles both appropriately improved AND balanced.

Edited by ScarecrowES, 21 June 2015 - 07:54 AM.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

honestly who designs current shoting from gauss is mentaly sick.

[L3mming2]

Summon3r, on 21 June 2015 - 07:34 AM, said:

lol are you kidding OP, nerf the only remotely decent clan ballistic good plan, keep nerfing everything clan its working well for game population

its not nerfing evrything clan its making clan ballistic's more ballanced, if the other ballistics (they to have the drawback of ammo dependans and high weight) are roughly in line when it comes to heat/damage they m8 become more vaible and the meta may diversify if not the chassis that can use the current meta (EBJ..) will just get laser nerfed and all non meta laser builds on them get f* too..

i mean, to balance clan lasers they gave them high heat, so what can u use with them hey i know lets use that 1 weapon with gr8 range high velocity and damage and almost no heat..

mm how do we ballance this combo? lets nerf it (and the other builds are just collateral) so its slightly less good but still the best option.

IMO the balance between weapon systems in MWO needs to be adjusted;
srm's need to be a litlle but cooler and do a litle bit more damage (2.5 a missile)
reason; they are spread, and low vellosity, ammo dependant and very short range
ballistics they are heavy and ammo dependant, IMO they should be cooler (the coolest of the system) and the gauss should be in line with the other ballistics (heat wise)
reason; (see OP)
lasers; they are IMO in a good place at the moment, a bit to powerfull compared to the others but that would be rectified with the afformentiond changes..

other weapon balance issues
MG's..
flamers (not damage wise but make them add like 2 heat/s to a enemy mech and let them be able to overheat said targeted mech)
AC2's (realy they are not even trying here)
LBX's (ore a dps increase ore a very high crit chance/ crit damage boost)
clan AC (give them a reason to exist...)

Ghogiel, on 21 June 2015 - 07:36 AM, said:

Clan gauss is that good. I really can't say it's balanced tbh. But with IS mechs so quirked, comparing weapon stats, particularly between IS/clan, is rather pointless now imo.

i'm not trying to compare is vs clan weapons but weapons classes (lasers vs balistics vs gauss vs srm's...)