92 replies to this topic

[ScarecrowES]

Quickdraw Crobat, on 21 June 2015 - 11:44 AM, said:

Actually, if you lose, you don't get the C-bill 'Salvage' reward, which ups the difference considerably beyond 15k.

We're also forgetting your x2 bonus for your first victory of the day, which has significant impact on your rewards. Many people will not run a mech once it's gotten its "first win of the day" bonus, myself among them. Totaled together, a win is THE single biggest factor in determining your final match rewards.

[GeistHrafn]

Moomtazz, on 21 June 2015 - 09:35 AM, said:

So do you think the rates are fine?

Would I, personally, like to be making more? Of course! Who wouldn't want to?

Do I think that the current amounts are a deal-breaker for new players, no. As Cathy said:

Cathy, on 21 June 2015 - 09:47 AM, said:

Said it time and time again, there are far worse grinds in other games.

[ScarecrowES]

Escef, on 21 June 2015 - 10:43 AM, said:

Wait, wait, wait... Winning, damage, and kills aren't performance where you come from? WTF?

You're playing an objective-based game which rewards almost no score to any of the actual objectives. Lights running around capping objectives on Conquest but seeing no direct combat will ensure a team victory but usually won't receive a match score above 20, and the corresponding rewards. Direct combat, and the resulting actions from causing damage or kills, are weighed vastly more heavily than objective play. Ultimately, you should be able to score equally in playing the objective or doing damage, but you clearly don't. Not only is damage rewarded better more directly, but it also has a greater breadth of reward opportunities given merely for participating in direct combat.

[Escef]

ScarecrowES, on 21 June 2015 - 12:28 PM, said:

You're playing an objective-based game which rewards almost no score to any of the actual objectives. Lights running around capping objectives on Conquest but seeing no direct combat will ensure a team victory but usually won't receive a match score above 20, and the corresponding rewards.

Win or lose, you get bonus c-bills in conquest based on the resource points your team accumulates. How is THAT not rewarding performance?

[ScarecrowES]

Escef, on 21 June 2015 - 12:38 PM, said:

Win or lose, you get bonus c-bills in conquest based on the resource points your team accumulates. How is THAT not rewarding performance?

Read the part you didn't quote.

[Escef]

ScarecrowES, on 21 June 2015 - 12:49 PM, said:

Read the part you didn't quote.

I did. You didn't say anything that magically transforms your argument from wrong to right,

[Mudhutwarrior]

In the days before the c-bill nerf you could play with your builds and try new things. Now you don't dare unless you have a warchest. Several builds I am interested in and several I would like to buy but I am doing neither because again there is no room for mistakes in the Nerf a mech when its available for c-bills strategy PGI employs.

Think of how many c-bills just to equip those packages. Not enough hours in the day to grind for them then find they have been nerfed when your done.

Once they burn enough people they will see the drop in purchase past the hardcore fans who want pretty things they don't really own.

[ScarecrowES]

Escef, on 21 June 2015 - 12:57 PM, said:

I did. You didn't say anything that magically transforms your argument from wrong to right,

Maybe you're not reading it right? The whole part about damage-related scoring and rewards vastly outstripping objective-related rewards. Like, greater than 3-1 in most cases? How even a poor damage dealer who dies early in a match will outscore a light doing nothing but capping all match, even though the light will have vastly more impact on team victory? I'm just really unsure of where the confusion is here.

[omessiaho]

They aren't that great even if you win.



This reminded me of two games while leveling up my locust. The first game I did better but since we lost the winnings paled in comparison to the one we won, despite the damaging being almost identical.

Edited by omessiaho, 22 June 2015 - 02:43 PM.

[Roadkill]

ScarecrowES, on 21 June 2015 - 12:23 PM, said:

We're also forgetting your x2 bonus for your first victory of the day, which has significant impact on your rewards. Many Some people will not run a mech once it's gotten its "first win of the day" bonus, myself among them. Totaled together, a win is THE single biggest factor in determining your final match rewards.

Fixed that for you.

Whether or not some people refuse to play a Mech after it has earned its first victory of the day doesn't change the fact that rewards for winning are only marginally better than rewards for losing. By far the biggest difference comes from the fact that you don't have the opportunity to earn as many bonuses in a loss. The bonus values themselves don't change, but if you lose 0-12 you're not getting any of those kill/assist/etc rewards.

Furthermore, first win of the day only affects XPs earned, not c-bills.

A win, on its own merits, is only worth ~30k c-bills and 210 XPs more than a loss. And that's being generous on salvage. Your own individual performance has a dramatically greater effect on your earnings than whether your team wins or loses.

Edited by Roadkill, 22 June 2015 - 03:51 PM.

[Roadkill]

omessiaho, on 22 June 2015 - 02:32 PM, said:

This reminded me of two games while leveling up my locust. The first game I did better but since we lost the winnings paled in comparison to the one we won, despite the damaging being almost identical.

In your win you had a Savior Kill and an extra Kill Most Damage. That's ~10k of the c-bill difference right there. The win itself is only 5k difference - 25k vs 20k - as can be seen on your screenshots.

[bad arcade kitty]

for conquest you get only a part of the earned germanium if you lose

win by cap there it's 37+k c-bills more

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 22 June 2015 - 03:58 PM.

[Mystere]

ScarecrowES, on 21 June 2015 - 02:31 PM, said:

Maybe you're not reading it right? The whole part about damage-related scoring and rewards vastly outstripping objective-related rewards. Like, greater than 3-1 in most cases? How even a poor damage dealer who dies early in a match will outscore a light doing nothing but capping all match, even though the light will have vastly more impact on team victory? I'm just really unsure of where the confusion is here.

Back in the day, players who went for objectives were rewarded much better. But the usual "Rock 'em, Sock 'em" CoD types who all zombied to the map center and very steadfastly refused to defend or take the objectives incessantly whined like spoiled little brats. And the rest, as they say, is history ...

I think that is the time MWO stopped being the "thinking person's shooter" it was billed to be.

Edited by Mystere, 22 June 2015 - 04:02 PM.

[Bill Lumbar]

Rewards kinda blow.... and have for a very long time now. This issues isn't gonna go away till PGI address's it and comes to terms that it will not help with NPE, or even for many of the vets that have been around for awhile. Many will argue one way or the other, but the bottom line is that by increasing earnings by 30-50% for all will help PGI to increase sales. The "whales" (no offense, glad some are supporting this game to insane levels with their cash) will only last so long before it all dries up. When this hits steam, PGI is gonna find out just how bad the reviews will be for this model. Sure, some games might be worse, point is, we are talking about this game, its future, and not other games that suck worse when it comes to a snails pace for progression we have all endured for so long now.

Edited by Bill Lumbar, 22 June 2015 - 04:03 PM.

[MechaBattler]

Well unless unlike World of Tanks. We don't lost money for piloting certain mechs. Unless you're a team killer.

Though I wish they would bump the premium time bonus another 25% Then I might consider buying it more often. I can't justify spending money it when I don't get enough time to play. I've suggested and heard others suggest something like a per battle booster. So that people without time can get the most bang for their buck. But it seems to have fallen on deaf ears.

[Navid A1]

Escef, on 21 June 2015 - 10:43 AM, said:

ScarecrowES, on 21 June 2015 - 09:41 AM, said:

What sucks is that rewards are not tied to performance. The game doesn't care how well you played... only if you won. And then, if you won, how much damage or how many kills you got.

Really?



Wait, wait, wait... Winning, damage, and kills aren't performance where you come from? WTF?

Things you mentioned are PART of the performance.

Let me give you an example i have to deal with alot.

I run a kitfox with a narc equipped... so i'm under-gunned. When i drop with 2-3 lrm boats on my team, I make sure the boats have good laugh lobbing lrms to unsuspecting ecm mechs from a distance and eventually winning the match.
I hold my fire to stay hidden and join after the team moves in to clear up.
When we win that way. I do around 200 damage, may be 1 kill and 6-7 assists. I get a MISERABLE reward while lrm boats take a shower in cbills. Just because the last shot was not from a lurm on kills.

now tell me... how is my "performance" in your book.

Edited by Navid A1, 22 June 2015 - 04:36 PM.

[El Bandito]

Pilots my DWF, gets 4 kills, does 800+ damage, and what do I get? Measly 160K!

I did less for more pre-12v12. **** Paulconomy.


Most other popular F2P games give you 100% boost earnings with their boosters, but no, not in MWO. You are gonna have only 50% boost AND YOU ARE GONNA LIKE IT!

Edited by El Bandito, 22 June 2015 - 05:39 PM.

[omessiaho]

Roadkill, on 22 June 2015 - 03:51 PM, said:

In your win you had a Savior Kill and an extra Kill Most Damage. That's ~10k of the c-bill difference right there. The win itself is only 5k difference - 25k vs 20k - as can be seen on your screenshots.

True but I also got way more space bucks from the solo kills, component destruction and the salvage bonus in the loss. The loss also had solo kills which includes the most damage dealt bonus. I wasn't really trying to make a point, I just thought it was kinda funny how big of a difference there was between two seemingly similar games.

I changed my mind, I guess I am making a point. The first game I played better and was a bigger asset. I stripped components and focused my fire better to get kills (same damage-more solo kills) but got fewer assists and no savior kills. You're dependent on a team that can actually kill or at least engage the enemy to get those bonuses. Despite my playing better I was rewarded less because my team didn't play as well. There needs to be like a MVP bonus or something for when that happens, it would make it a lot less annoying.

Look at the first screenshot and then the third. In the first I did more than double the damage, double the kills, destroyed 50% more components and got extra spotting assists but only received 10,000 more cbills and 5 more experience. The reward system is weird.

Edited by omessiaho, 22 June 2015 - 05:56 PM.

[Navid A1]

Bill Lumbar, on 22 June 2015 - 04:02 PM, said:

Rewards kinda blow.... and have for a very long time now. This issues isn't gonna go away till PGI address's it and comes to terms that it will not help with NPE, or even for many of the vets that have been around for awhile. Many will argue one way or the other, but the bottom line is that by increasing earnings by 30-50% for all will help PGI to increase sales. The "whales" (no offense, glad some are supporting this game to insane levels with their cash) will only last so long before it all dries up. When this hits steam, PGI is gonna find out just how bad the reviews will be for this model. Sure, some games might be worse, point is, we are talking about this game, its future, and not other games that suck worse when it comes to a snails pace for progression we have all endured for so long now.

Totally agree.

The trend in this forum is when someone comes and says that this sucks or that sucks and needs to be addressed; He/she is bombarded with comments saying that other games suck 10 times more, so be thankful.

why?

Do we set our standards by comparing ourselves to things that suck more than us?... its a business i know. And you have to "suck less" rather than "rock more" in order to stay in the competition. But please understand that the models used for analyzing EXISTING big businesses do not apply to a developer that is just STARTING and is hungry for new players.

Remember... "sucking less" is the thing that i appreciate the likes of EA to pull off, because they have reliable and constant flow of customers. Yet PGI need to "rock more" in order to steal the show and attract new player base.

Edited by Navid A1, 22 June 2015 - 05:50 PM.

[Escef]

Navid A1, on 22 June 2015 - 04:35 PM, said:

now tell me... how is my "performance" in your book.

I don't swing that way, but your wife says I'm better.



Anyway, there's a huge difference between saying "performance isn't rewarded" and saying "this specific instance of performance isn't rewarded". As for your NARC example, your reward is the ephemeral "the team won" bonus. If the team didn't win, yes you should still get some kind of reward for NARCing (especially as TAG is crappy on lights).