3 kills 4 assists 540 damage. Treb Hero with Premium Time. Lost the match and earned 140k Cbills and 480 XP.
Without the C-bill bonus I would have made 70k.
480 XP just seems way too low.
Imagine a new player who is working on Basics and Elites for his new mechs. New player probably has <1 Win/Loss. It takes 64k XP to take 3 mechs to Basic and 1 of those three to Elite.
The only thing that allows me to keep playing this game is that I have the cash to convert XP, buy packs, and not have to grind every mech. I do grind Mastery or often the Elites other than Speed Tweak, but otherwise I am paying for it.
I don't see how a new player or someone who does not have the cash to spend on the game would feel that it was worth the time.
Well, You mean to tell me that you want paid for failure? This isn't a sport game its a merc game and many a pay master would rather you die than pay you to fail.
I don't swing that way, but your wife says I'm better.
Anyway, there's a huge difference between saying "performance isn't rewarded" and saying "this specific instance of performance isn't rewarded". As for your NARC example, your reward is the ephemeral "the team won" bonus. If the team didn't win, yes you should still get some kind of reward for NARCing (especially as TAG is crappy on lights).
While I will agree with you regarding the difference in saying, "YO, we just don't make enough/performance isn't rewarded."
The thing is this, many threads have been started on this topic, Vass started one several months ago and it hit over 20000+ views, and went on 60+ pages easy before it got sent to K-town. Within that thread, and several others that have brought this topic to the table, trying to discuss it in a adult manner by most, I for one gave very specific details of several matches I had played out in Conquest mode right after Rewards 2.0 was put into effect. In these matches, as I stated before, we was on the Cannon map, and our team went right and did the nascar thing in a big death ball, like most teams do on Cannon. All we kept seeing in chat was, "group up, group up". This is a great concept and tactic given the very small amount of depth PGI has brought us in Assault and the other Assault mode with out the base.
The enemies main force went right also, with the exception of a lance that went across the map and stayed hidden that was capping every point we took right behind our team. We took eps I think is the first one to the right, and my team stayed in the big death ball and moved on to cap the enemies first starting cap point. As we got around half way to the cap point on the other side of the map from where we started, I noticed on my hud that the enemy was back capping us on every point we took and was getting way ahead on caps. I was in my BJ-arrow, and turned around and went back to see what was there. I typed into chat asking for support from one fast light mech to assist me at least. Only one mech answered the call and broke off from our death ball.
As it turned out, I got there first, and a firestarter came with me, as I came over the ridge, sure enough a stormcrow is sitting there on the cap, and two other lights on their team was coming to assist him out around 800 m's. I took out the stormcrow, and then my team mate showed up in the fire starter and helped take out one of the enemies lights, and almost cored the other light, making him retreat. Our team death balled to the center of the map as this was going on and left the caps to me and a firestarter. We was really behind on the caps, and in the end, if the firestarter and I wouldn't have broke off from the death ball and defended our cap points our team had taken, we would of lost on points for sure.
I posted screen shots of that game in Vass's thread, Earnings vs. what they afford you, and what do you think the pay out for my time and effort was on this game and many games like this one? I will give you one guess.... It was $hit guys. Under 60K I believe and we won because of points and because of my effort and the one light that broke off with me to stop the back capping of our points.
This is still a common pay out for matches like these, and these matches happen all the time, still, even today. PGI could fix this by adjusting the pay outs, designing more pay outs, or by adding depth to the match modes that make each match played have "real" objectives that pay well for completing them, even if it means breaking off from the "deathball" and making other tactics in game meaningful. Or they can continue to pay out very low rewards IMO, like they have for so long now, ones that continue to support and breed very dull and boring "deathball" it up or don't get c-bills style of game play in every match mode they design. Choice is theirs, and as players we also have a choice how we play a match every game we drop.
As it stands right now, and has for so long, there is very little immersion in this game, and it comes down to PGI's choice to not really design any real depth into the game modes. This leaves us with a FPS game, that while the core battles can be fun, its just the same old same old tactic that is used every match.... same old same old way to make the C-bills, and players exploit or do what ever pays the most in a match every frickin time they drop.... Why? Because most are starved for C-bills and XP, and will carry three tags, or narcs or whatever pays out the most this week. After all what is better then bringing one tag on your mech??? That's right, at one time not so long ago, bringing two tags!
I am a old school gamer, and many have said if PGI makes the earnings to good, no one will spend money on this game. I have around $100 dollars into this game in the last 2 years, I can't speak for others, but I know for a fact that I have not spent money to lessen the "grind" in this game. I spent money to support a BT game that I want to see succeed and grow into something much more! When a game has a "painful grind" or very slow progression and does so to entice players to spend cash on to support it, My wallet closes. So if any of you think that the "grind" we have all endured for so long now will help me come off my money, you and PGI are mistaken, and PGI might want to address the issue and find a happy medium before the "whales" get tired of dropping hundreds and thousands of dollars on this game. Once that happens, its is game over if PGI doesn't get new players into this game, and not only get them into it, but keep them and the Veterans they have already got. IMO, there is something about this model that just feels dirty, and it doesn't make me want to spend my money on it.
I think a lot of you guys are missing the basic point. That being...
Players should be rewarded for their own individual performance. A good game should give you comparable rewards in a win or loss (or not THAT much off as it is now) while bad games should still give you low rewards win or lose. That's the disparity and has nothing to do with the grind or this game being free to play.
Well, You mean to tell me that you want paid for failure? This isn't a sport game its a merc game and many a pay master would rather you die than pay you to fail.
Joseph... some how I don't think that is what he has said..... a 3 kill 4 assist and 500+ damage is a very fair game for a Veteran player, and for a noob its a very well played game, 70K and 480XP for earnings in a match like that are a outright joke, and I believe his point was that it is simply to low for the effort put into the match and time spent playing. Win or lose, he contributed to his team and was a asset, you simply pay your assets well, or you lose them.
Everyone complaining about the grind in this game should go play a korean mmo for a couple months, then come back.
My first (and probably overall favourite, but its dead now after going full Pay2win) online game took 3 months of fairly hardcore play (read: 40+ hours per week) to get from level 49 to level 50, and any pve death could lose you up to 99% of the current level. THAT is a grind. (and i liked the fact that being max level actually meant something, as opposed to simply being where the game starts like most MMOs)
Everyone complaining about the grind in this game should go play a korean mmo for a couple months, then come back.
My first (and probably overall favourite, but its dead now after going full Pay2win) online game took 3 months of fairly hardcore play (read: 40+ hours per week) to get from level 49 to level 50, and any pve death could lose you up to 99% of the current level. THAT is a grind. (and i liked the fact that being max level actually meant something, as opposed to simply being where the game starts like most MMOs)
LOL.... all I can say to that Korean MMO is ummmm, no thanks! I have only enough time for this games pain grind, and my time is and has been spent else where the last several months. I used to play 4+ hours a day, 5-7 days a week. Not anymore, and my play time has dropped down to around maybe 5 matches a week. You and others can use that argument all day long, run it into the ground, in the end, that is where games that have painful grinds end up. It really doesn't matter how much more other games grind suck.... we are talking this games grind.
I guess if we use your great wisdom and apply it right back at ya, maybe you should go and continue to play that Korean MMO instead of telling us what we should do with our time, you seem to be very dedicated and enjoy wasting your time.
3 kills 4 assists 540 damage. Treb Hero with Premium Time. Lost the match and earned 140k Cbills and 480 XP.
Without the C-bill bonus I would have made 70k.
480 XP just seems way too low.
Imagine a new player who is working on Basics and Elites for his new mechs. New player probably has <1 Win/Loss. It takes 64k XP to take 3 mechs to Basic and 1 of those three to Elite.
The only thing that allows me to keep playing this game is that I have the cash to convert XP, buy packs, and not have to grind every mech. I do grind Mastery or often the Elites other than Speed Tweak, but otherwise I am paying for it.
I don't see how a new player or someone who does not have the cash to spend on the game would feel that it was worth the time.
You gave the answer yourself. Frankly, do you think pgi would shed a tear for those who cant or would never pay anything? F2P baby someone has to pay. Plainly put, you pay for the others who dont want to and have the time to grind.
You should be piloting mechs that you enjoy piloting.
Oh noes..... yet another you are doing it wrong reply? Seriously? Do you really believe that everyone that post on here or is of the opinion the Grind is a bit much for all players is just simply doing it wrong? Whats next, "we must want it all for free.." or "this isn't pokemech, you don't have to catch them all..." replies?
Either way, regardless if one "enjoys" the mechs they are piloting or not, I have several I love to play in my hanger, it simply is a mute point when the "payouts/rewards" are so unrewarding vs. effort put in for a match one really contributes to their team in. What you are stating has nothing to do with the other, getting screwed without lube is still getting screwed without lube, even if you "enjoy it" or you don't.
Joseph... some how I don't think that is what he has said..... a 3 kill 4 assist and 500+ damage is a very fair game for a Veteran player, and for a noob its a very well played game, 70K and 480XP for earnings in a match like that are a outright joke, and I believe his point was that it is simply to low for the effort put into the match and time spent playing. Win or lose, he contributed to his team and was a asset, you simply pay your assets well, or you lose them.
I understand what he was saying (I think), but teh point still stands, we are playing a game where we are mercs working for a Client. On a loss, we failed to do what we were paid to do. Wanting good money cause I did awesome while failing to successfully complete the mission (ie Win)... Not how it works.
I understand what he was saying (I think), but teh point still stands, we are play a game where we are mercs working for a Client. On a loss, we failed to do what we were paid to do. Wanting good money cause I did awesome while failing to successfully complete the mission (ie Win)... Not how it works.
Joseph... I understand what you believe on this topic, and I would agree with you for sure if PGI really put forth a game that has more complex objectives to obtain a "win" vs, just death ball it up and kill them all type play. It would seem that PGI has given us a game that ones efforts in a match, even when well played and a very close match that one almost pulls off a win and really contributes to his team, then looks at the pay out after the match or more to the point, the lack of a real pay out/reward vs. their effort, is as light as the real depth and immersion in this games match modes. This will not keep players playing in the long run, and it will not secure and kept new players in this game. Not sure how this will effect PGI's cash cow and the bottom line, but it would seem common sense would give a person that uses logic a clue as to the outcome of this "model".
In games of the past, even when we all had to "grind" for our mechs/weapons, level ups, etc. etc., there was real depth to the game, immersion that insured we didn't get bored, burnt out, or even really notice the "grind"... this game simply doesn't have that kinda depth to it, IMO. Would you not agree on this point?
I understand what he was saying (I think), but teh point still stands, we are play a game where we are mercs working for a Client. On a loss, we failed to do what we were paid to do. Wanting good money cause I did awesome while failing to successfully complete the mission (ie Win)... Not how it works.
If you did "awesome" in a loss, you still deserve decent rewards. If you suck in a win then you still deserve low rewards. How complicated is it really? I know the role players would have issues but MWO is FAR from a Battletech role playing game. Even CW is nothing like advertised and just another long play game mode. Playing in mixed teams or PUGging is not the same as fighting as a merc in a real military. You are just playing to get the rewards or percentage of the rewards that you should earn.
Joseph... I understand what you believe on this topic, and I would agree with you for sure if PGI really put forth a game that has more complex objectives to obtain a "win" vs, just death ball it up and kill them all type play. It would seem that PGI has given us a game that ones efforts in a match, even when well played and a very close match that one almost pulls off a win and really contributes to his team, then looks at the pay out after the match or more to the point, the lack of a real pay out/reward vs. their effort, is as light as the real depth and immersion in this games match modes. This will not keep players playing in the long run, and it will not secure and kept new players in this game. Not sure how this will effect PGI's cash cow and the bottom line, but it would seem common sense would give a person that uses logic a clue as to the outcome of this "model".
In games of the past, even when we all had to "grind" for our mechs/weapons, level ups, etc. etc., there was real depth to the game, immersion that insured we didn't get bored, burnt out, or even really notice the "grind"... this game simply doesn't have that kinda depth to it, IMO. Would you not agree on this point?
Well in the past, we wouldn't be playing a game that is somewhere near only way half complete either. For the most part I have the Mechs I want. So... What more is there in this game to do but buy more stuff? If that is all this game is going to be about, I have already finished playing. All I'm doing is waiting to see how CW pans out.As it looks right now though. I have done all there is to do beside buy more stuff. And that isn't what I play the game for.
Well in the past, we wouldn't be playing a game that is somewhere near only way half complete either. For the most part I have the Mechs I want. So... What more is there in this game to do but buy more stuff? If that is all this game is going to be about, I have already finished playing. All I'm doing is waiting to see how CW pans out.As it looks right now though. I have done all there is to do beside buy more stuff. And that isn't what I play the game for.
I understand what you are saying and your point of view on this. I may not agree with your hard core Role playing point of view in this game(at least not as the game stands I don't), but as another pointed out, we don't have that in MWO anyways. You yourself see this game for what it is right now, and I agree with your opinion on what it is at this time 100%. I don't want this game to only be about "buying more stuff" either, and from the looks of things, that is what we have here at this time. I don't want things to be to the extreme that you don't feel like you have to "work" for mechs and progressing in this game, however I do feel that PGI has intentionally made us work a bit to much for mechs and other things in this game.... IMO, a balance must be struck, and I feel we simply are not even close to being there yet in regards to earnings and progression in game vs. time played, money spent, and what it affords us all.
If anyone is under the impression that this makes players want to spend more cash in this game, I know of at least one player that this mindset and "model" PGI has brought us all for so long now has the complete opposite effect on, and that would be me. I have supported this game with cash, not as much as some, but still non the less, I have. I would be more willing to spend more money on this game, but not with things like this....just feels so cash grabby, so dirty to throw my cash at such a F2P "model" such as this one.
Win or lose, you get bonus c-bills in conquest based on the resource points your team accumulates. How is THAT not rewarding performance?
A Cap Win gets Salvage Rewards too right?
Besides, it has been stated that Win is Good. So that Light who assures the Win, benefits from said Win. I have seen a million times a Light in Conquest, hell a fleet of Lights, who fight and die ugly only to complain no one capped for their easy Win? WTF!
As noted. The longer you LIVE, the more chance for rewards accumulating. Thus even in a Loss, of a Close Match 10-12, 11-12 say, there is monies to be made. Dying 2 minutes in doing a Rambo should not be Rewarded at all, and it isn't. It is a Team game and requires Team play to succeed. Trying to go it alone to much is what makes the Threads happen.
Mudhutwarrior, on 21 June 2015 - 01:02 PM, said:
In the days before the c-bill nerf you could play with your builds and try new things. Now you don't dare unless you have a warchest. Several builds I am interested in and several I would like to buy but I am doing neither because again there is no room for mistakes in the Nerf a mech when its available for c-bills strategy PGI employs.
Think of how many c-bills just to equip those packages. Not enough hours in the day to grind for them then find they have been nerfed when your done.
Once they burn enough people they will see the drop in purchase past the hardcore fans who want pretty things they don't really own.
How do you vote on R&R being implemented again Mud? Pay for the Losses of Gear/Tech and Engines? That will spur the new players to life surely?
So a 10% Boost across the Board? 15% perhaps. How much more would be enough? Bill? How much more before you would say you get enough, even when you "suck balls" in a Match and Lose?
There must be some number lads/lasses unless no set of numbers will ever satisfy?
Here is a Link to the current List of Rewards, just for giggles.
So a 10% Boost across the Board? 15% perhaps. How much more would be enough? Bill? How much more before you would say you get enough, even when you "suck balls" in a Match and Lose?
There must be some number lads/lasses unless no set of numbers will ever satisfy?
Here is a Link to the current List of Rewards, just for giggles.
Almond, with as heated as the other threads have got, I think I and several others made it very clear what number would be a much more reasonable grind for all to endure. Why ask again? The numbers I gave, some claimed are to much, but I added up my life time earnings, and tbh, after two years of solid playing this game, vs what and how many mechs I have, vs, time spent, and money spent.... What we have is kinda a joke for earnings, IMO. If it works for you guys, great!
One thing is for sure with the way the rewards have been since the big nerf hit, no one can say, man they are better then what they used to be. I concede that there will always be players that are not happy with earnings, and want more more more, but at least we can all pull up our past earnings and say to them, "hey, we are making 30-50% more then we was several months ago." And that is something that can not be said by anyone right now. Earnings are simply to low for all players, and have been this way for far to long now.
LocationSlung below a mech's arm shooting nothing but dirt
Posted 23 June 2015 - 11:36 AM
A loss should pay out a lot less than a win, it's fine how it is.
Winning a match just needs to have a larger payout, otherwise you'd have no incentive to play well.
If every match payed well, especially losses, that would encourage AFK players that just launch into a match, leave, grab a new mech and start another. Farming c-bills that would should be highly discouraged. So, yeah, you kinda have to help your team win if you want a nice payout. It really needs to stay the way it is.
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Moomtazz, on 21 June 2015 - 09:09 AM, said:
