18 replies to this topic

[Kin3ticX]

Been noticing time is getting low since the patch. There are some changes which may make it take longer for an attacker to be successful. I have especially noticed this when playing with a partial group or solo.

• Dropship farming the defenders is dead, ogens in new locations
  
• Base rushing is nerfed hard
  
• More Turrets on some maps (i hate turrets so much sometimes)

I am probably missing or forgetting something but all of this means more opportunity for the defender to run the clock a bit more.


Do you think the average player needs more time to attack?

Edited by Kin3ticX, 19 June 2015 - 11:41 AM.

[Kira Onime]

Going for a full 48 kill against a competent defending team is not gona happen unless you play hyper aggressive.

Competent teams defending will just play for the 30 minutes game.

[Revis Volek]

I have had about 2 games go to time since Beta 1 started...

I have never had an issue killing all 48 mechs and the objectives. 30 mins is plenty of time..

[Armando]

While I think there is still enough time it can get really close.

What has changed is the c-bill per hour difference between killing all 48 before, and the extra time it now takes to hunt down the last 7-8 mechs at the end of the match. It is no longer worth waiting c-bills/hour wise to get 48 and dunking OMEGA at 40+ will net higher profits IMO.

That said some drop callers are OCD and 'have to catch them all'...the changes makes killing 48 before dunking OMEGA drag out matches (and IMHO less 'fun') for both teams (the farmers and the farmed alike).

[Revis Volek]

Armando, on 19 June 2015 - 12:10 PM, said:

While I think there is still enough time it can get really close.

What has changed is the c-bill per hour difference between killing all 48 before, and the extra time it now takes to hunt down the last 7-8 mechs at the end of the match. It is no longer worth waiting c-bills/hour wise to get 48 and dunking OMEGA at 40+ will net higher profits IMO.

That said some drop callers are OCD and 'have to catch them all'...the changes makes killing 48 before dunking OMEGA drag out matches (and IMHO less 'fun') for both teams (the farmers and the farmed alike).

Our unit wont bother with that like you said....if we can shave 10 mins off the drop time by killing 38-40 and then dropping Omega while you hide we will do it.

The few extra cbills are not worth it when you have many a cbills waiting for you in the next game.

[Armando]

DarthRevis, on 19 June 2015 - 12:11 PM, said:

Our unit wont bother with that like you said....if we can shave 10 mins off the drop time by killing 38-40 and then dropping Omega while you hide we will do it.

The few extra cbills are not worth it when you have many a cbills waiting for you in the next game.

I agree with you 100% for the 'winning team' waiting to get those last 8-10 kills not worth it.

Here is the thing though, those remaining 8-10 guys at the end of the match still alive are normally the 'brighter' / 'better' pilots who know how to do those little things that keep you alive like torso twisting, advance / retreat using cover, etc. With events like the one going on now, where match score at the end matters, I feel like those 8-10 guys are kind of getting shafted out of the chance to make score more often now.

I don't really care too much about this as I am never one of 'those' players (the last 8-10 guys at the end of a losing match), but it is something I have noticed.

[Khereg]

Kin3ticX, on 19 June 2015 - 11:36 AM, said:

Been noticing time is getting low since the patch. There are some changes which may make it take longer for an attacker to be successful. I have especially noticed this when playing with a partial group or solo.

Funny you should bring this up. I was thinking about our match last night and concluded the outcome might have been different without the recent changes:

* Our opponents stayed close to their spawn, gaining dropship cover, and preventing us from getting shots on Gen 2, due to the new covers, additional turrets, and proximity to dropship protection

* We finished with a decent kill lead (4-ish, I think?) and with even 3 more minutes, we likely could have killed them out and taken Omega.

I'm not complaining. It was a good match and we made other mistakes along the way that led to the outcome we got. But I had previously said I didn't think the changes would affect match outcomes and last night seemed to be a case where I could have been wrong.

Curious what others are finding.

Edited by Khereg, 19 June 2015 - 12:48 PM.

[AlphaToaster]

The 48 kills is a secondary objective in Invasion, so I think it's fine that there's not enough time now to get all 48 kills and omega. Once defenders fall back to their drop ships and start delaying, attackers should just destroy gens and Omega in order to move on to the next drop.

Keep dropping and eventually a team that wants to actually fight will show up. These defenders can't complain they're losing if their only tactic is to fall clear back to their drop ships. It's not really a base rush if they openly invite the enemy team in and then don't fight them.

[Monkey Lover]

Until the last patch killing 48 mechs wasn't the point of the game.

[Kin3ticX]

Monkey Lover, on 19 June 2015 - 04:17 PM, said:

Until the last patch killing 48 mechs wasn't the point of the game.

Well, we do get to bring 4 mechs so there should be time for even slightly timid teams to kill all 48. Right now it might seem calibrated well for a really aggressive 12-man but regular randos probably run out of time often enough for it to suck.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 19 June 2015 - 05:49 PM.

[Saint Atlas and the Commando Elf]

Kin3ticX, on 19 June 2015 - 11:36 AM, said:

Do you think the average player needs more time to attack?

Well that is a good question, but no.

-If the matches would be longer, match making would be even harder which is a No-Go imho.

-Also, people would cry for higher rewards, as you already make less cbills per time in CW now.

-I have experienced a few matches, where we as attackers took a good position, started trading shots and were ahead in kills, but had to start a rush for the gens because time was low. We lost these ones subsequently. More time would result in more static battle. As a side note: Remember World War I. That was kinda "balanced" but no side made any progress. They just did their trench warfare and died for no cause.

[L A V A]

On attack, what the average player needs is an aggressive mentality, not more time.

[Vellron2005]

My experiance with the revised CW is thus:

1) Dramatic shift to the tactics where the o-gens have been reduced to "oh, we'll hit them if we have the time"
2) Attrition, attrition, attrition! (and more attrition)
3) Light rushing gens? Oh you mean throwing pebbles bare-handed at them?
4) Spawn Camping - reversed. In Soviet CW the spawn camps you.
5) 12 man premade defending VS pugs attacking - (pugs) Oh well, 30 minutes of my life I'll never get back..
6) 12 man premade attacking VS pugs defending - (12man) Is it just me or do they have more mechs than us?
7) 12 man defending on Vitric Forge or Boreal Vault - (12man's commander) Ok, everybody, for today's target practice...
8) Light pilot trying to attack an o-gen - Killed by DEFENCE TURRET
9) Heavy/assoult pilot shooting the other team's last disconnected player - Killed by DROPSHIP
10) Tactics in CW - (Minister) - Friends, family, CW players and fans, today we send to the grave our dearly departed friend..

[Weztside]

The average amount of time it takes Battle Magic Merc Unit to burn through 48 enemy mechs is around 15 minutes. 20 if the enemy camps their spawn zone. There's more than enough time. Honestly, I wish there was a way to win the game sooner for defenders. We usually push out of the base and into the attackers in an attempt to end matches more quickly.

[Cord78]

I think the changes to the spawn points in lasty patch has not solved the spawn camping issue, just changed who does the camping.

Case in point, the other night we were on hellbore springs on counter attack, after the first round of engagement with the defenders up 3 kills, they decided to camp their spawn area. Result? After we managed to rush their lame spawn camping bodies after waiting around for 10 minutes, we decimate them we were immedaitely destroyed by the 3 incoming dropships.

So PGI did not fix the spawn camping problem, just changed who spawn camps.

Not sure how feasible it would be but a possible solution to spawn camping for either either team is that if mechs are in the "spawn zone" after 2 minutes from lasdt drop ship then a series of 5 or so arty strikes or air strikes happen in the spawn zone. I think this would permanently resolve any spwan camping but not sure if it is doable.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

There doesn't need to be more time... just a willingness for teams to be a bit more aggressive.

It's an attack, not turtle at a gate.

[Deathlike]

To the OP's question, yes, but it'll take a bit more time, and it's somewhat easier to accomplish since there are 2 obvious chokepoints to engage camping (and usually losing) teams at.

Occasionally, "there's a runner", but most of the time, they aren't able to do much inevitably.

[Rahul Roy]

Vellron2005, on 02 July 2015 - 03:32 AM, said:

My experiance with the revised CW is thus:

1) Dramatic shift to the tactics where the o-gens have been reduced to "oh, we'll hit them if we have the time"
2) Attrition, attrition, attrition! (and more attrition)
3) Light rushing gens? Oh you mean throwing pebbles bare-handed at them?
4) Spawn Camping - reversed. In Soviet CW the spawn camps you.
5) 12 man premade defending VS pugs attacking - (pugs) Oh well, 30 minutes of my life I'll never get back..
6) 12 man premade attacking VS pugs defending - (12man) Is it just me or do they have more mechs than us?
7) 12 man defending on Vitric Forge or Boreal Vault - (12man's commander) Ok, everybody, for today's target practice...
8) Light pilot trying to attack an o-gen - Killed by DEFENCE TURRET
9) Heavy/assoult pilot shooting the other team's last disconnected player - Killed by DROPSHIP
10) Tactics in CW - (Minister) - Friends, family, CW players and fans, today we send to the grave our dearly departed friend..

Hilarious!!

[crustydog]

This morning we went up against an IS pug team that refused to leave their spawn. After 8 minutes, we went in there and slaughtered them with LRM's. Although this behavior is not the majority of play, it is also not entirely uncommon at the moment.

Perhaps some incoming artillery 30 seconds after the dropship targeting remaining mechs to encourage players to move?

If not this, then something? Just saying.

I have also noticed several matches where we simply run out of time on attack, the defenders are using the turrets for help, and it takes quite a bit longer to kill everything. If you speed up the attack, you lose too many mechs... taking plenty of damage from turrets and dropships.

Also, we've not yet lost a single defense match since the patch (any that I've been in) - but then again, I've not met NS on defense yet either:) We've failed to Hold on plenty of occasions.