5 replies to this topic

[Degalus]

Hi @ All

After reading lots of threads about CW and what they think is wrong with it (also testing by myself) it seems that the main problem is the non existing Class Limit.
I read often that pugs or small teams get overruned from 12 x Light(IS 4 the win)/Heavys(yea yea clans op ... ;P )/Assaults or Overquirked mechs (O.Q. exist, dont try to say no, IS ;P )

Sooo whats the Problem?
Obviously without limitation its like in the old MWO days, 1 class only rushes from "Pro" Teams.
Mostly you cant realy do anything against it (exept you get every pug to choose the same class)
I dont need to say that this way is a realy "bad" experience for everyone under 12 man teams or for new Players.
Also... i think it isnt in the name of the Mechwarrior Spirit to boat a mechclass for the big battle.

What we have now?
The current way of Overall Tonnage in CW gives us big freedom in mechchoosing and also freedom in abusing it.
The current way of Class Limitation in the other Modes helps with balancing but sometimes doesn't allow you to play what you want. Also you must play Clan + IS vs Clan + IS (i personally dont like that)

What can PGI do?
My idea is nothing originaly. It is used in some games and helps with balancing dynamical while playing.
Its simple, 3/3/3/3 (or for a little bit of flexibility 4/4/4/4) all the time while playing.
It means that you see in the drop menu which class currently isnt full and you take a Mech from the available class. Theoretical PGI Can balance how many in each class can be. ( 4/5/4/3... just numbers..)
We also would need to kill the 4 Mech max in Dropship limit for this. So we can choose every Mech out of our Mechlist.
Sure its not realy realistic that we have all our Mechs with us in the Dropship but you also only would have 4 Drops/Lifes so you could say you still have only 4 with you.
This would help against the one Class rushes and still gives us flexibility. It also allows you to play only Assault/Heavy/Medium/Light if you are Lucky because its possible that every time you die a slot in your class is free.
On the opposite side, sometimes its possible that you aren't lucky and stuck in classes you dont wanted to play.

Its just an Idea nothing more nothing less. No crythread no ragethread
What do you think?

ps:
Sorry for my bad english ^^;

Edited by Degalus, 22 June 2015 - 06:26 AM.

[guy0320]

I really don't like this idea. Right now one of the few things that makes CW feel different than the public queue si the freedom to drop in what you want when you want and the uncertainty of not knowing the basic composition of your enemy's forces at the moment of drop. This freedom and uncertainty is currently the only remaining thing that makes CW a different game mode and not just public queue with respawn. Please do not destroy what little flavor this game mode has left in the name of preventing abuse. Nearly everything else that makes CW great has been removed. Please don't make CW public queue 2.0. Doing so would remove one more reason that I have to keep playing this game, and it would only make the gameplay staler and more repetitive than it is currently.

Edited by guy0320, 22 June 2015 - 10:32 AM.

[Degalus]

guy0320, on 22 June 2015 - 08:29 AM, said:

I really don't like this idea. Right now one of the few things that makes CW feel different than the public queue si the freedom to drop in what you want when you want and the uncertainty of not knowing the basic composition of your enemy's forces at the moment of drop. This freedom and uncertainty is currently the only remaining thing that makes CW a different game mode and not just public queue with respawn. Please do not destroy what little flavor this game mode has left in the name of preventing abuse. Nearly everything else that makes CW great has been removed. Please don't make CW public queue 2.0. Doing so would remove one more reason that I have to keep playing this game, and it would only make the gameplay staler and more repetitive than it is currently.

Ok i dont realy understand, where is the big problem here beside of eliminate 12x X Mech Teams?
You would have even more Freedom because you can choose from the whole Mechlist.
ps.: If you play in a 12 man team i think there would be enough teamplay so everyone get his roll in the team so he can take everytime and every wave his class.
K sometimes there are already all Slots full in the Class you wanted to play but thats exactly what the system should do.... balancing the match.

guy0320, on 22 June 2015 - 08:29 AM, said:

Please do not destroy what little flavor this game mode has left in the name of preventing abuse.

So you support abusing in the name of ... abusing?
What exactly did PGI remove from CW ?
From my Point of View CW is still different then Puplic

Puplic:
1. IS + Clan vs IS + Clan mix (i dont like this point)
2. More balanced because of the 3/3/3/3 system in groups (you will never see a 12x 1 mechclass team in puplic)
3. only 1 Life
4. Sadly every modes played more like teamdeathmatch then something else even Assault with the base ...

CW:
1. Clan vs IS (my farvorite point... but not enough)
2. many 12 Man drops with 1 mechclass rushes - dont say "then join some friends and do the same. Teamplay!" because Mechwarrior is not meant to be played like that... it never was... but MWO give us the Option in CW to use a full team of 1 class and peoples like to abuse things like that in every game if they can.
3. 4 Lifes - mostly used from pro teams to get a nearly identical mechselection for the whole team (not many variety)
4. Base fights against turrets, doors, generators

Currently if i drop i drop puplic because it has more balance then CW but i dont like the C+IS mix and Teamdeathmatch feeling... thats also the reason why i currently dont play MWO often
or in other words:
I cant stand the rushes in CW and dont like the mix skrimish play in puplic like may others.

I dont see where CW is the same like puplic.... hmm ok from the last posts from you in the Forum it looks like you defend the behavior of such rushes maybe even use them.
So if you dont think thats a problem to use 12x 1 Mechclass in one Wave or even think its balanced ... sry then we wont find a Solution.

Is it realy such a great Mechwarrior experience for you to rush with 12 Lights to gens ignore enemy mechs and finish with 12 other lights or 12 assaults? Is that Mechwarrior for you?

Edited by Degalus, 23 June 2015 - 12:33 AM.

[Vellron2005]

In my oppinion, I'm shocked that you can't take all assualt mechs into an invasion CW drop.. that is their main purpose. The only support they might need is a few ECM scouts and some heavy LRM support. But most of the drop should be Assoult mechs.

It is the military thing to do when you'r invading a planet. You don't send your medium patrol mechs, you don't send your cannon fodder.. you make surgical strikes at specific targets (such as the orbital cannons) with overwhelming force and only then land medium and heavy forces to "sweep up" any remaining opposition..

So your idea, altho game worthy, makes no practical sence.

Personally, I want CW to refflect real-life logic and tactics, not arena-style play. That's what the solo PUG que is for..

[CyclonerM]

Vellron2005, on 02 July 2015 - 03:17 AM, said:

In my oppinion, I'm shocked that you can't take all assualt mechs into an invasion CW drop.. that is their main purpose. The only support they might need is a few ECM scouts and some heavy LRM support. But most of the drop should be Assoult mechs.

It is the military thing to do when you'r invading a planet. You don't send your medium patrol mechs, you don't send your cannon fodder.. you make surgical strikes at specific targets (such as the orbital cannons) with overwhelming force and only then land medium and heavy forces to "sweep up" any remaining opposition..

So your idea, altho game worthy, makes no practical sence.

Personally, I want CW to refflect real-life logic and tactics, not arena-style play. That's what the solo PUG que is for..

All assault mechs? Well, that is not how it works :\

Aside from the fact that more Invasion is supposed to be more like a quick raid (but has become nothing like that..), Assault mechs are pretty rare in units. Only a very few elite units like Zeta Battalion of Wolf Dragoon's have all or almost all Assault 'Mechs. And even then, in a strategic view, such a slow unit would be vulnerable to more manouverable units.. But this is not a concern in MWO, unfortunately.

Medium 'Mechs are the most common and the workhorse of the Inner Sphere and the backbone of their militaries. It makes sense to me.

[50 50]

I have to agree with some of the points there but I believe I understand what you are trying to get at Degalus.

Personally I like that for a single wave it is possible in the Community Warfare matches to have 12 assault mechs or 12 of any one class or chassis stomp their way across the battlefield. That organised teams use it to achieve victory via a particular tactic that this mech selection has allowed for is just a side effect of that.

For the regular matches, when the clan mechs were introduced and allowed to drop into these matches, we saw the huge difference in performance between the IS and Clan technology. To counter that and make the regular matches more balanced, the various tweaks to the weapons and all the quirks have been introduced so that it's now pretty even.

Had it gone the other way and the regular drops were instead separated into either strictly Clan or IS drops it would have been quite a different path I imagine and would have impacted on how community warfare developed as well. For instance, the Clans might have had their units built around the star of 5 and had less mechs per match than the IS.

However, it didn't, so let's not worry about that.

Where I feel your idea has merit Degalus is in having a different structure once committing to a planet to invade.
By making available different types of missions with different requirements such as what mechs could be used and what the lance composition might be, players may vary their dropdecks more and possibly group in smaller numbers. We may see something more evolve along these lines with the scouting missions that were mentioned.
However, I hope that it still means committing a mech from your drop deck, and if that mech is destroyed, it is not available if you then drop in one of the larger battles. There needs to be some form of attrition.
It will be interesting to see what evolves and happens over the next few months.